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Author Topic: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is now available.  (Read 3467 times)

Offline Brent Williams

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New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is now available.
« on: August 14, 2017, 03:18:37 PM »
I was speaking with the tech at Castle Creations today and I asked him why there isn't an ESC between the Talon 35 and the Talon 90.  He indicated that Castle is currently in the design phase for a Talon 60 ESC and they are interested in some feedback regarding the features to include.   This is good news as the Talon series has all of the Castle-Link programmable governor functions of the Phoenix ESC's, just no data-logging functions.  The Castle tech indicated this new ESC should hit the market in 3 months or so.  Target price would likely be under $55.00-60.00

There is a on-going debate with the design team at Castle regarding whether to include an aluminum heat-sink or not.  I told him for control line use, we can do without the heat-sink for weight savings.  He agreed.

This 60 amp ESC fills a hole in the price/features/Amp capacity lineup.  The 35 amp continuous rating of Talon 35 doesn't give enough over-amp capacity for even moderately sized planes which limits it's use, IMO.   Motors such as the E-Flite Power 15 and Cobra 2820/12 run on 4S packs are on the upper/ragged edge of Amp capacity with the Talon 35 without much margin for error.  A 60 amp continuous rating would comfortably handle anything from a Power 15 through a Power 32 sized motor without much worry of letting the magic smoke out. (with exception, of course, crashing and other catastrophic events, biblical plagues, nuclear holocaust, ect)

So if you have thoughts about a mid priced, Castle ESC, and/or the desired software features, reply to this thread.  I told the tech I would put a post up here at Stunthanger to spread the news and he indicated that he was very interested in reading about the response to the forthcoming Talon 60 ESC.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 08:23:11 PM by Brent Williams »
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Offline badbill

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2017, 08:48:26 AM »
Make it so it stops with a ground strike.


MM

It already does, you can even adjust the sensitivity of it in the program.
Bill Davenport
AMA 28141
If some is good, and more is better, then too much is just right!

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2017, 01:31:03 PM »
The Talon series of ESC's do not have the data logging capabilities of the Edge and Ice ESC's.  That is basically it.
All of the governor functions are the same between the Edge and Talon series.

The upcoming Talon 60 will (hopefully) just be a software lite version of the Edge Lite 50.  That's good news!

I'm definitely looking forward to trying one out.
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Offline Vitalis Pilkionis

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2017, 09:26:10 AM »

So if you have thoughts about a mid priced, Castle ESC, and/or the desired software features, reply to this thread.

Couln't they just borrow an old Jeti Spin 66 non-pro and find what is so special in it (reaction time, pwm and etc.) as it's been the only esc working properly with active timers.



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Vitalis P.

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2017, 08:44:30 PM »
Couln't they just borrow an old Jeti Spin 66 non-pro and find what is so special in it (reaction time, pwm and etc.) as it's been the only esc working properly with active timers.
------
Vitalis P.

Simple solution:  If you're using Igor's active system then you're just going to have to buy the original Jeti Spin ESC's directly from him.  He reportedly has them made for him by Jeti in small batches.

The Fiorottii Active system is reported to be compatible with the Spin Pro ESC.

Let's try to keep the ESC discussions pertinent and focused on the Hubin / Castle based systems.
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 09:31:47 AM »
I do not think there is any "compatibility" issue with active timers. The point is speed of regulation, simply motor must quickly react to all commands from timer in governor mode. But governor modes are primary developed for helis and the last thing you want with heli is quick rotor head acceleration with such large rotor. Means what you want is quickest ESC possible. And so far it look that Spin non Pro without "heli rotor protect stuff" in "3D mode" does the thing best. Unfortunately new PRO version does not have those special modes (it was not used by normal RC guys only by us, so it was removed fot simplicity and lower price), so even quickest setting in PRO version is visibly slower than we need.

And there is also no "look and copy" way. The point is proper tuning of PID regulator in governor and it is not trivial thing and certainly no if-then-else programming :- ))

Offline Vitalis Pilkionis

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 02:48:32 AM »
Then all they have to do is to implement unprotected acceleration mode in Control Line mode settings and make it so, that it could not be used by heli guys in any ways.

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2017, 01:05:48 PM »
Then all they have to do is to implement unprotected acceleration mode in Control Line mode settings and make it so, that it could not be used by heli guys in any ways.

Is this "unprotected acceleration mode" something that you have specific knowledge about in the Castle software/programming? 
Sounds like a useful concept if it's even possible.  It would be great if it's just a simple code change for Castle to implement in CL mode.
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Offline Brent Williams

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 03:36:10 PM »
I do not think there is any "compatibility" issue with active timers. The point is speed of regulation, simply motor must quickly react to all commands from timer in governor mode. But governor modes are primary developed for helis and the last thing you want with heli is quick rotor head acceleration with such large rotor. Means what you want is quickest ESC possible. And so far it look that Spin non Pro without "heli rotor protect stuff" in "3D mode" does the thing best. Unfortunately new PRO version does not have those special modes (it was not used by normal RC guys only by us, so it was removed fot simplicity and lower price), so even quickest setting in PRO version is visibly slower than we need.

And there is also no "look and copy" way. The point is proper tuning of PID regulator in governor and it is not trivial thing and certainly no if-then-else programming :- ))

Igor,  do you have any specific ESC performance parameters that must be met for your active timer system?  If so, perhaps we can have Castle Creations look at a special mode or a revision of the current programming which could make the Castle ESC's perform at the speed necessary to be completely compatible and viable for use with your active system.
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 02:21:56 AM »
Igor,  do you have any specific ESC performance parameters that must be met for your active timer system?  If so, perhaps we can have Castle Creations look at a special mode or a revision of the current programming which could make the Castle ESC's perform at the speed necessary to be completely compatible and viable for use with your active system.

Well, the quicker, the better. :- )))

If you ask for deeper informations, like how are PID and LP filters tuned so that Castle can make competition for AXI better, I can surly ask, but I am also sure I know answer from them, so I will rather not.  VD~

Offline John Tate

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 08:32:59 AM »
Igor, has anyone looked at or tried the Turnigy 60 Super Brain 60 AMP ESC https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-super-brain-60a-brushless-esc.html? It is advertized as "ultra fast microprocessor controlled". I have a couple of local helicopter pilots that are using them now. They have stated that response time is better.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2017, 09:18:39 AM »
Igor, has anyone looked at or tried the Turnigy 60 Super Brain 60 AMP ESC https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-super-brain-60a-brushless-esc.html? It is advertized as "ultra fast microprocessor controlled". I have a couple of local helicopter pilots that are using them now. They have stated that response time is better.

No, when I did my survey last time it was really costy, so I do not plan to do it again, since I really have very well working ESC having all features we need. However, if maker says he uses ultra quick processor, it does not tell anything about the program itself. Response time of governor is more about its tuning than processor speed. The only way is to take it and test both in real life.

Well done and set regulation will add power in ascending parts of figures, solution with dealy in regulation will move that part of highest rpm later, what will cause quicker downward parts of figures, in extreme, it will work just opposite - accelerate on bottoms and brake on tops. It is visible especially in wind.

So the solution is qick reaction of timer (I did my best - I worked on tuning 4 years until I was happy and before I released first timer out and I use that setting till now without change), quick ESC (certainly not that dedicated for heli guys, they need SLOW reactions, so I do not believe there could be good ESC which is not done with C/L on mind, means I will believe more on Castle, Schulze, Jeti than something from R/C sources) and low moment of inertia of motor (small diameter), spinner (as light as possible) and especially prop - I use light 17g hollowed props.

Only then come user features - slide switch, programming on field, available settings for good sslope adjusting etc.

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 02:54:47 PM »
For those that might be curious.  The Talon 60 is now in production and available.  Has all of the governor functions and programming of the Ice and Edge esc's, just no data-logging. The Talon 60 can handle 6S / 25.2V, 60 amps.  The BEC is rated for 20 amps peak and 8 amps continuous. 

http://www.castlecreations.com/en/talon-60-6s-25-2v-60-amp-esc-with-20-amp-bec-010-0163-00

This is a good option for anyone with a medium/large airplane wanting to get into a Hubin timer compatable system for a reasonable cost.  Looks like you can get into one of these for about $60.00 from various sources.  I'm excited to try one out later this spring.

Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
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Offline Brent Williams

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Re: New Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC is in development- any thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 08:19:35 PM »
They didn't address any of our speed concerns for active timers? So, basically the same thing I've already got but $15 cheaper, yawn.

3..2..1...yup...And as before,  if you want to run Igor's active timer or its Brazilian doppelganger(Fiorottii)...just buy a Jeti Spin 66 from Igor.  That is the only truly effective esc to use with that system, and there is pretty much only one source....the man himself, Igor.  It is what it is.  You gotta pay the price to play at that level.

Yes, this is a slightly less expensive esc that will work perfectly with the Hubin system for use on larger planes.  Neat stuff if you have a bunch of Hubin equipment and aren't planning on going to the active auto throttle systems.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
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