Frank,
It is always easier to lend out someone else's equipment than your own.....

Besides as I said earlier, the only real way to get a feel for what it (the electric power train) can do is to try it out for yourself.  It is a decent set up and fun to fly.  I might feel different about letting others fly it if I had to wipe off a bunch of goo afterwards.

If this set up gets another person in the air because of the ease of assembly and stealth-like operation, then letting others try it out is well worth the potential risk of having to make a repair.

John

You've got me sold Big John. Lend that puppy out!!

Would you like to try tying a string to it's tail and flying it ala Banjok/Palco style? It would be a first and Sig would be a great venue for such an attempt.

Maybe the Bi-Slob guys are trying to be as cool as RC dudes.

Hi John,

Thanks for sticking with this problem and trying to get the most out of the stock system. I'm sure your research will help others that will buy this E-ARF. ..... Your right, there are much better, easier to use, chargers out there, and that would be the simple solution. The Multiplex is great for our size batteries, up to 5 cell and 5 Amp batteries, and it is only $100. Or the $57 Thunder Power unit.

I am not familiar with the charger you are using but I may be able to shed some light on some of your questions.

1. I use the Thunder power balancers. Yours sounds like it gives similar results to mine. My balancer shows my batteries are charged (beeps the correct # of times) and balanced, BUT the charger (both my TP and Multiplex) continues charging, like yours seems to be doing, and puts several hundred more mAh into the battery before they automatically shutoff. It seems like it takes some extra time to bring that last low cell up to full charge before the charger finally says: "OK, were really done now".
      Our chargers are not 100% efficient. At the 4.2 Amp rate (1C for my batteries) it takes 57 min to put 3.255 Amps back into the battery. You may want to see how long it should take at your "C" rate. It may take longer than 2 hours?

2. A safe way to check to see if your batteries are fully charged is to use a simple volt meter. If it is a 4 cell battery it should charge to about 16.7 Volts if it is a 3 cell it should be around 12.58 Volts when fully charged. (CAUTION: Please be carefull using the meter probes. You don't want to short out your battery!)

3. Regarding charging without using a balancer: Yes, some people still never use a balancer. Technically, it is not really needed to charge your batteries, but it's many benefits make it worthwhile to use. When I first got into elec R/C many years ago, the batteries did NOT have a balancer plug. In fact, we never heard of a balancer. Now, most of us would not think of charging without one. They are an excellent safety feature, and they will prolong the effective life of your battery.

4. RE: lights on your charger. Sorry, can't help you there. Mike may be able to help you on this. I have six chargers and all but one have a digital display that tells me everything I need to know. Volts, mAh used, time, "C" level, etc. The one with the lights is the little, inexpensive ($57) Thunder Power charger. Each light has a label next to it telling me what it means.

It is interesting to see how this ground breaking E-ARF is playing out. I admire John for trying this, and I realize that he was going for a mass market price point, but the charger sounds like it is a weak link in the system. It should be a little more user friendly with better instructions. It is a very important part of the package. Like Kim has wisely said before, "....ECL is not inexpensive if you want IC equivalent power, reliability, user friendly, and safe performance".

EDITORIAL: Read at your own risk?  

After over 100 ECL flights (and many hundreds of E-R/C flights) I am still a big fan of e power. But I agree with Kim, I don't think there is a "close" E cost equivalent of a CL OS .20FP anywhere in our near future.  I think we are there (within 25% of cost) for an ECL contest competitive .46 size plane. And also the same for the .60 to .91 size CL plane.

We have all heard about the many benefits of ECL. After flying in and judging at 4 contests this year, I can safely say that the REAL advantage to ECL is not the quiet, or the lack of a mess to clean up, or the mass that is now located closer to the CG (less barbell affect), or the sanitary installs, ...... it is the RELIABILITY and REPEATABILITY of the power run throughout the ENTIRE flight!

I have been surprised at how many "less than ideal" IC runs there are in CL. At contests even the top Expert pilots, with beautiful planes, sometimes have marginal runs that cost them points, especially when the wind picks up.

I was at the practice field last week, there were only two of us. One of our Expert class pilots was on one circle and was having IC problems and only got in two good flights, and two flights that were only partial patterns. I was on the other circle and flew six flights (all six of my batteries). Since they were charging while I was flying, I flew three more flights. My friend, who will remain nameless, was still working on his engine when I left. I admit this is an extreme case, but it shows what can happen.

The reliability is worth it's weight in GOLD. I never have to worry about my power. I get a perfect stunt run every time. It NEVER ever burps, coughs, or changes in any way. Now, if I can just find a way to get my hourglasses to look better, and my etc. ...... 

PS: I DO miss the smell of Nitro and Burning Castor. ..... Maybe I could make a spray "CL Scent" to use in the pits? 

Regards,  



 

  I have noticed through this entire thread that  you get one flight per battery charge.  Then it takes 1 to 1.5 hours or so to recharge one.  That means that if I wish to get 10 to 15 flights per day of practice,  I will need that many batteries as there is no electric power at the field.  We have two paved circles and three BIG grass circles  that are available for use all the time so there is no waiting.  how do I get around having to buy $1000.00 worth of batteries?

  Will a camping type A/C power plant work?  How about an a/c inverter on the car?

  Bigiron

Marvin,

You ask some very important questions. We have addressed these questions in past posts, but it was always buried in different subjects, but never answered directly.

1. RE Charging power:

Yes, RV power or a generator unit, or your car will work. We only need a 12V power supply for our chargers. When we have 110V available we use an inexpensive ($80) 12V Switching power supply (from Radio Shack) to power our 12V chargers. .... Many use an auto battery (Mike, AKA: "Muscles", Palko for ex. ;-) uses a 50+lb auto battery at the field to charge his batteries. This should give you around 10+ charges. You could use your car battery as many do, this has the advantage of being automatically charged, but the disadvantage of leaving you stranded at the field if depleted too much. 

I use two 18 Amp 12V batteries that weigh 15 lbs. ea.  when I fly at a local park. These give me 3 charges each and are very easy to carry. Both my club fields have 110V or 12V power. One from the parks department and one just for us electric flyers, from the large Solar Panels on our club buildings roof. :-)

It sounds like you have a very nice field. If you have drive up access, close to your pits, I would think that Mike's 50+ lb. 12V Auto battery would be the perfect solution for your needs.

2. RE the time to charge:

I use the Thunder Power 1010C charger with their 210 balancer with data port. This excellent combination allows me to safely charge TWO batteries simultaneously in 57 min. I can do it in 20 min. if I am brave enough to use the authorized 3C rate for this TP charging system. (I have not been this brave yet ;-). I also have a Multiplex charger that I use to charge a third battery if needed. This system allows me to fly as long as I can keep it up.

For the majority of competitive flyers 2 to 4 batteries, with the above charging system, should be adequate for their needs. For an extremely serious competitor like yourself (15 CL flights per session) you may need six batteries, which allow you to fly all day, sun up to sun down! ;-)

I have six batteries, only because I am lazy, and I usually fly 1 CL flt. then 1 RC for a total of 12 flights per session. That is more than enough flying for me. :-)  I still often recharge everything while I am at the field flying, so that I do not have to do it at home, and this gets me a head start for the next day of flying. But some days I'm real lazy and just fly. Enjoying perfectly reliable, repeatable, unlimited (for my plane), smooth, quiet, power. Flight, after Flight, after Flight...... 

3. RE Battery Cost:

For a very serious competitor that flys 15 flights per session, you must burn a lot of fuel. Just think of batteries as your fuel supply. The price of the two are very close to the same. We need to think in terms of COST PER FLIGHT, not the cost of individual items by themselves.

The excellent Evo batteries cost $170 each. We est. that we will get around 200 flights per battery. At 195 flights that comes to $.87 per flight. A .46 uses 5.5 oz. of fuel per flt, at $20/gal this = $.87 per flight. Your milage may vary, but it will still be close enough that batteries are very competitive with glow fuel. They are NOT the big expense everyone sees them as. You are just buying your fuel in advance, in 8.5 gal packages!

I hope this helped with some of your questions. Please feel free to ask for more details if you need them.

Regards, 

 

PLACE YOUR BETS! 

I'm betting Marv's next Bi-Slob will be a Bi-Slob-E! 

(well maybe not...)   

Marv:
In fact you'd have room to carry that 18A charging battery Rudy mentioned! 

All seriousness aside, while I am a big fan of e-power, there are some things that should NOT be messed with - like Fox 35's in Bi-Slobs! 

I flew the E-Clown this thread got started with this past Saturday.
It's way fast for stunt. John is going to try different props to get slower laps.

Hi Frank,

Sorry my ans. got a little off topic. I promise that I did not mean to be clowning around with your thread.   

Do you have a way to adjust the RPM on your set-up? Like we do with our JMP timers?

I have tried 10 different props with my ECL P-40. I ended up going with the same prop used by Linhart Smith, and Will Moore, an APC 12x6 E.  I'm glad I followed their advice. By turning down the RPM from 10,500 with a Bolly CF 11 1/4x4 prop, to 9,100 with the APC, I now have a setup that is quieter, seems smoother, and pulls like a freight train! On 62' E to E lines, I get perfect 5.0 sec lap times which fits my flying style to a "T". :-)

If you can adjust the RPM you may want to try a larger dia. with a relatively higher pitch, and lower RPM to get the lap times you want. I know that "low pitch" is almost sacred in CL but IMHO that really has more to do with the idiosyncrasies of 2CL engines than any natural law.  Our ECL systems (with Outrunner motors) seem to like more dia and pitch at lower RPMs, much like the 4CL engines do. I'm sure Mike, and others will have more to say on this, and more experimentation will give us more answers in the future. .... Good Luck, and please keep us posted.