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Electric Stunt => Gettin all AMP'ed up! => Topic started by: RC Storick on March 06, 2013, 01:33:59 PM

Title: Must see arming plug
Post by: RC Storick on March 06, 2013, 01:33:59 PM: This is the next super slick product that is advertising here Arm-Safe. It is important if you order to tell them you saw them here! Don't forget!

CLICK HERE----> (http://stunthanger.com/smf/adseller/060313132559.png) (http://www.sharprc.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=43) <----CLICK HERE
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dean Pappas on March 06, 2013, 09:26:36 PM: Sure enough, Sparky ...
That's one of the good ones.

Dean P.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dietmar Morbitzer on March 06, 2013, 11:45:27 PM: Hi electro stunters,
I do it this way, see picture.
Dietmar
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Larry Wong on March 07, 2013, 05:47:53 AM: Robert ! What system are you using on your Crossfire? ???
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dean Pappas on March 07, 2013, 07:39:01 AM: Very nice, Dietmar!
Did you make the double female socket by cutting up one or two standard sockets?
Which manufacturer's parts and part numbers? Such a clever setup: we need details.

Thank You in advance,
Dean P.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dietmar Morbitzer on March 07, 2013, 01:54:49 PM: Hello Dean,
it's the normal 4mm conector which is delivered with many batteries, also.
I've glued it first on with long time epoxy, then cut it with a small Dremel tool,
thats all, very easy to make and easy to pull out if needet.
This one is build for my Vector, my first flapped stunter with full body fuselage.
Dietmar
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: John Cralley on March 07, 2013, 02:33:23 PM: Ah, very clever and I can see how, with a second cut and a resister bridge, you could easily make it a SPARK arrested arming plug!!! I will have to give that a try on the full bodied plane I am converting to electric (an ARC Oriental).

Thanks!!
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dennis Adamisin on March 07, 2013, 03:07:01 PM: Dietmer - WELCOME to Stunt Hanger!

I too like your simple and elegant solution! WELL DONE!
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Chris_Burgess on March 07, 2013, 04:19:44 PM: I've been using these arming plugs, they work GREAT!
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dietmar Morbitzer on March 08, 2013, 05:54:35 AM: Hi all and thank you for liking my arming plug.
There are 2 important notes :
1: Before you cut the bush in two halves , first find the thickest point of the plug,this is
the point you have to cut. If you cut not here you'll have connection problems.
2: Allways have one or two spare plugs with you and use colorfull shrink tube on it.
Dietmar
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: john e. holliday on March 08, 2013, 09:16:35 AM: Why not a tether of some sort so it stays with the plane?
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: RC Storick on March 08, 2013, 03:00:11 PM: Quote from: Larry Wong on March 07, 2013, 05:47:53 AM
Robert ! What system are you using on your Crossfire? ???

One I made before finding this. just a jumper wire
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Rudy Taube on March 12, 2013, 01:26:58 AM: Robert,

Arm Safe is a very good product, I'm glad they are advertising on your forum. I have been using several of them for a few years now with no problems. They make a clean, neat, easy, bulletproof installation. Their Deans connector is made for high cycle use and is very reliable.

Dietmar,

Very nice KIS solution.

1. I agree with John: Tether the male plug to the plane. (but I would still follow your suggestion to have a spare ;-)

2. PLEASE do not use the male plug you show in your photo!

They make a good connection, (small motor hookup, etc.) but they were NOT designed for high cycle use. They will fail, and Murphy says it will happen at the top of the Hourglass! ...... The connector shown at the link below is much safer and is made for cycle use. These are the Castle connectors. There is also a more expensive connector that has the expansion slots in the female end with a small band around them for uniformity (I use these), but the Castle ones are fine for our ECL use. They can be purchased at many hobby outlets. Like many electric parts for ECL, check in the "RC Car" section of your hobby outlet. They will have these, and a lot of other neat E parts.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTJH9&P=ML
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Russell Bond on March 12, 2013, 02:44:18 AM: Are these better bullet connectors than the other type that can be bought at HobbyKing?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAXVS&P=M

The HobbyKing link; http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=67
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Igor Burger on March 12, 2013, 06:40:46 AM: Quote from: Rudy Taube on March 12, 2013, 01:26:58 AM
expansion slots in the female end with a small band around them for uniformity

exactly, the contact material should not be also the spring material ... they need different properties, and contact should have several small contacts instead of one larger, so females with several segments and "band spring" connected to one piece male bullet is the best version, they have typically lower resistance/length then copper cable for which they are designed
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Igor Burger on March 12, 2013, 06:46:31 AM: Dietmar, are you absolutely sure you have good contact on both sides?
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dietmar Morbitzer on March 12, 2013, 12:56:20 PM: Hi all,
I've used this system on my rc planes since 1994, and they never failed!
As I told in one reply it's important to cut exactly in the center.
These 4mm gold plugs are the most used plugs in all kind of electric powered
models like planes,boats and helicopters. I use them in big helicopters with uncounted batterie changes
during the last 15-20 years.If these plugs are bad they will not have this big success for a long time.
And it's only an idea, nobody is asked to do it this way, at the VECTOR I've since December 22 flights.
I'll check the plug and if it will become old I can change it easy with a new one.
Dietmar
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Igor Burger on March 12, 2013, 02:37:56 PM: I am asking because those connectors looks good, but some of them are simply faulty, I have seen crashed model because of wrong connector of this type, problem was that the spring was well connectred to female, but it had free connecttion on MALE side .. it was simpy free there, and motor sometimes stopped after first turn to wingover ... one of them costed model ... the guy then gave me ESC, motor, times and battery to check what was wrong ... I did not see any problem everything worked well on stand, but when I dismounted all to send ESC to maker, I found that connected connector was possible freely turn (when the wire was disconnected) ... and that was my last proof that those connectros are simply not for such application

however it is not your case, The reason why I am asking is, that the connectro is rated for some current and when you cut it to half, you will split max loading current of the junction to two (the resistance will be 2x higher), but you cannot know if exactly half ... but even if in two, then for example if the junction resistange is 1mohm, then if you cut it exactly to half, you will have two 2mohm resistor in series ... what makes 4mohms ... means your connetor in optimal case make 4x higher internal resistance then single connector, while if you use classic pair of them it makes only 2x higher resistance ... means you can use only 1/4 of max current for that connector type

but it is only half of the problem, biggest problem is, that it can be splitted also in ratio 10:1 and it will make resistance over 10 ohms ... that small place will overheat, spring will get weak in short moment, contact will be even worse and that quick irreversible fault which will lead to big trouble
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Rudy Taube on March 13, 2013, 06:56:08 PM: Dietmar,

What Igor (#1 CL flier on the planet) said. y1

Russell, (Reply#13)

Yes! It is a very different design. Much stronger, and higher quality.

THERE ARE THREE ISSUES HERE:

Connectors are an important part of our ECL system. Because of their cycle use (abuse? ;-) and critical function, this is the last place to try and save a few $. This thread has grown into 3 issues, not our intent, it just happens. n~

1 SPORT FLYER, DON'T WORRY ...... SERIOUS CONTEST FLYER, WORRY ABOUT EVERYTHING! HB~>

If someone is a ECL fun flier that flies CL <50 times/year with sport type equipment then almost any connector will be fine with few problems, don't worry just have fun. Any current loss will not be noticed, and is not very important for your mission. Connector cycles won't be much of a factor. If one is in this group, you can stop reading this now and go out and have fun! :) (I envy the fact that you are easy going enough not to be an AR individual. ;-)......... If you fly 100 to 400+ ECL flights a year and enter several contest every year, and/or want to move up to the top class, then you would do well to read and head every word Igor writes.

2. DIETMAR'S VERY CLEVER SAFETY PLUG DESIGN

I'm sure it works OK for most ECL fliers as is, ........ but as Igor says, there may be room for improvement for those who are always striving for near perfection in their pursuit of maximum performance.

3. THE CONNECTOR ITSELF (SEPARATE FROM DIETMAR'S DESIGN)

If you are in the 2nd group in #1 above, then you need to use a more failure resistant connector. I highly recommend using at least the Castle connector shown in my earlier post. I feel it is well worth the extra few $ to use the ones that I, Igor, and others use.

Below is a very good link to the mfg., it is worth reading for soldering info. and specs. Some of us need to click on the UK flag for the English version. ..... The next link is for a USA distributor for these MP Jet connectors. (Igor may be able to supply us with other sources?). The last link is a good HOW TO "jig and soldering" from the MP Jet site.

http://www.mpjet.com/news/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=59&lang=en

http://www.atlantahobby.com/Store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=5227&idcategory=973

http://www.mpjet.com/news/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=64&lang=en
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 13, 2013, 07:42:48 PM: Rudy,
its good to see you posting again,, missed your presence freind H^^
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: RC Storick on March 13, 2013, 09:43:17 PM: Quote from: Rudy Taube on March 12, 2013, 01:26:58 AM
Robert,
Arm Safe is a very good product, I'm glad they are advertising on your forum.

They were going to advertise here but I have not heard back from them. So there ad is out of the rotation. Still a slick product.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Howard Rush on March 13, 2013, 11:08:20 PM: Quote from: Rudy Taube on March 12, 2013, 01:26:58 AM
Arm Safe is a very good product, I'm glad they are advertising on your forum. I have been using several of them for a few years now with no problems. They make a clean, neat, easy, bulletproof installation. Their Deans connector is made for high cycle use and is very reliable.

Is their female Deans connector any different from standard Deans connectors? I have been using a standard Deans female connector in a nice aluminum shell (http://www.spotonrc.com/goods.php?id=193) , and the connector gets kinda crummy after awhile from the sparks. If Arm Safe's is better, I might get one and chuck the plastic shell.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Howard Rush on March 13, 2013, 11:24:29 PM: Quote from: Rudy Taube on March 13, 2013, 06:56:08 PM
The last link is a good HOW TO "jig and soldering" from the MP Jet site.

I recommend one of those cheap articulated alligator clip doodads to hold the wire rather than holding it by hand, which could result in an unwanted wiggle as the solder cools. It may also be prudent to attach a heat sink to the wire to keep solder from wicking up and stiffening it.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Russell Bond on March 14, 2013, 12:23:57 AM: Yes, I agree with Howard. You don't want it to "Wick up and stiffen!" :o
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Igor Burger on March 14, 2013, 01:14:18 AM: Yes Rudy, MPJ connectors are exactly what we use here, 1.8 for indoors, 2.5 for outdoors an dthose who do not see very well, use those 3.5 :- )))

It costs more (even it is made here) but absolutely safe and easy to combine with anti spark resistor.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Rudy Taube on March 14, 2013, 02:27:48 AM: Russell,

Those of us who know, love, and admire Howard, do so even knowing that he was born: "Wicked up and stiffen"! n~

Howard,

No difference, they are standard DEANS connectors. ......... RE: spark;

1. I think Igor has posted info. on spark avoidance solutions somewhere on this forum?

2. You may want to try the Mpi NO SPARK SAEFTY connector unit at the link below. It is at the bottom of the page. ( I think this is the one that Paul uses?) It looks like an easy solution. I just ordered one to use with my "Arm Safe" unit. It looks like it would interface well with your very cool bulkhead mounting unit. 8)

http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-21.html#Miracle%20Switch

3. I agree, the clip doodads are very useful. I also like using the trick Jigs that make connector soldering very, very easy. ......I just thought it was a good visual How To for those that are new to soldering and/or like inexpensive, KIS fixtures. :)

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I've missed you and many of the other nice guys on this forum too. My skin is still very thin, we will see how much heat I can stand here before I disappear again? We have such a beautiful, paved CL field right next to our RC field, I can't resist making some ECL flights once in awhile, after RC flying. It's still fun. H^^
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: RC Storick on March 14, 2013, 08:48:30 AM: I see everyone talking about no spark? Whats the difference? On a electric plane there is no gasoline. You cant start a glow fire with a spark. So my question is with nothing that will ignite with a spark around why care if it sparks?
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: John Cralley on March 14, 2013, 10:38:45 AM: Those sparks pit and wear out your connector contacts. Can be a real problem if you are putting 100s (maybe much less) of flights on your model!!
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dean Pappas on March 14, 2013, 09:39:19 PM: Yes, Sparky.
It's like John said: the contact resistance goes up bit by bit as the arc damaged spots gouge up the mating surface.
When they look crappy, it's time to replace both sides of every connection.
The bear is that when you do the mass replacement job, if you leave one badly pitted connector in your inventory, the damage spreads through all your equipment again: kinda like an E-Stunt version of a social disease.

On that note,
take care, All
Dean P.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Brett Buck on March 24, 2013, 11:13:29 PM: Quote from: Howard Rush on March 13, 2013, 11:24:29 PM
I recommend one of those cheap articulated alligator clip doodads to hold the wire rather than holding it by hand, which could result in an unwanted wiggle as the solder cools. It may also be prudent to attach a heat sink to the wire to keep solder from wicking up and stiffening it.

IF you use 63/37 solder, you won't get nearly as many or any cold solders from joint motion.

Brett
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Howard Rush on March 25, 2013, 04:46:12 PM: Go solder a fuel tank.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Doug Moon on April 18, 2013, 08:41:20 AM: Quote from: Dean Pappas on March 14, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Yes, Sparky.
It's like John said: the contact resistance goes up bit by bit as the arc damaged spots gouge up the mating surface.

On that note,
take care, All
Dean P.

Am I correct in thinking this is same as "pitted" points on my old 68 Camaro Points distributor?
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dean Pappas on April 18, 2013, 09:05:36 AM: Yes, Doug
It's very similar, only worse because of the wiping action of the contacts every time they mate / demate.
The points in your old distributor simply closed and opened so things were only awful.
Then again, once those points carried low current (after you installed a CD ignition coil driver) they lasted a whole lot longer, so that the rubbing block was the wearout problem!

take care,
Dean
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: frank williams on April 19, 2013, 09:42:36 PM: I lost a plane I'm sure due to the Mpi arming plug pitting after 100's of flights. I talked to Will about making the logic for the shutoff look for a long term (~1 sec) pulse rather than just a quick drop. A momentary break at the "safe" connection due to a high g load may make the timer think it saw a "button push" and then cause a premature shutoff. If you have to hold down the button for a full second to shut off the motor, it's no problem. I don't know if Will has done anything about this.
Title: Re: Must see arming plug
Post by: Dean Pappas on April 23, 2013, 02:34:39 PM: Hi Frank,
Can you tell us exactly what the symptoms were when you lost that ship?
What led you to implicate a crudded-up connector?
This is interesting and useful stuff, no?

take care,
Dean P.