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Author Topic: motor/kv suggestion  (Read 1171 times)

Offline Carl Cisneros

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motor/kv suggestion
« on: October 30, 2022, 07:47:59 AM »
folks;

I fly for fun and also fly the Beginner pattern at Brodaks and our anual stunt fest contest here in NOVA.

Getting ready to complete a 60 sized ship and was wondering what you folks would use (not too expensive/ keeping costs down)
for a motor using 4S as power. (motor size/Brand/KV rating)
Remember, I fly for fun and do the Beginner Pattern.
I use both KR and Hubin Timers.

Thanks much.
Carl
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Online Dennis Nunes

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Re: motor/kv suggestion
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2022, 10:20:04 AM »
folks;
Getting ready to complete a 60 sized ship and was wondering what you folks would use (not too expensive/ keeping costs down)
for a motor using 4S as power. (motor size/Brand/KV rating)

Hi Carl,
You might want to read the articles I wrote entitled "Turning to the Dark Side - The Building of Circulas 46 IIe" on designing, building and flying my first electric plane. The articles can be found at: http://flyinglines.org/nunes.circulas46lle.html

This is a relatively simple to build model with some advanced features, but it can help you get further down the road than flying just the beginner pattern. It is also very informative about some of the things you will go through when it comes to electric planes.


Enjoy,
Dennis

Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: motor/kv suggestion
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2022, 11:46:03 AM »
Dennis
great article and your plane is beautiful.

I have/had 2 FE CL planes of late.
First one was a 109% enlarged Excalibur that sadly is no longer. (Took 1st place at Brodaks (profile Beginner) in 2016 with it)
The other one I have is a Brodak T-Rex. Both are/were electric power.
The one under construction now is going to be a Profile version of the Pattern Master. The wing is completed at this time.
Getting ready to do the tail pieces next.

Got esc's, KR, Huben timers and 4S batteries on hand.

I am needing suggestions on the motor as the ones that I have used are no longer available these days.

Carl

Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: motor/kv suggestion
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2022, 12:17:53 PM »
I would reconsider the 4s battery on a 60's size.  Most of the motors that can make the whole pattern on a 4s are 46 size.  I am running 5s and it is barely enough.   I run BadAss 3515 710kv motors and I am making room to move to 6s on the ship I am building.    I am the only one locally still running 5s.

Ken
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Online Dennis Nunes

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Re: motor/kv suggestion
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2022, 12:22:47 PM »
Got esc's, KR, Huben timers and 4S batteries on hand.

I am needing suggestions on the motor as the ones that I have used are no longer available these days.

The T-Rex is a nice size plane. Circulas 46 IIe is a smaller than the T-Rex. Depending on the weight of the plane you may running into battery capacity issues with 4S batteries (You didn't state the mAh). This will be especially true if you decide to advance from the beginner pattern to the full pattern which require a longer flight time.

In the article I was going to start with a E-Flite 25 970Kv motor, but I decided to changed to the Cobra 3515 740Kv motor and a Hubin FM-9 timer coupled with a Castle Creations Talon 60 ESC. This was very simple and worked extremely well with a 5-cell 2800 mAh battery and a 2-blade APC 11x5.5e thin electric prop on a plane that weighted 68 oz. You probably can get away with 4S batteries flying the beginners pattern due to a shorter flight time. But as you advance you will need more battery capacity. Much of this is dependent on the size and final weight of the plane. The T-Rex is a big plane with 60" wingspan and 675 sq. in.! I'd recommend either the Cobra or Badass motor. The KR and Hubin timer should work fine.

FYI, once I started experimenting with 3-blade props I ran out of battery capacity on my 5S 2800 mAh batteries and needed to switch to 6S 2800 mAh batteries. I now use the Badass 3515 710 Kv motor along with a Fiorotti timer and a Jeti Spin Pro 66 ESC. This of course is not required for what you are trying to do.


Dennis


Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: motor/kv suggestion
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2022, 01:11:43 PM »
If you don't think you'll crash, or if you make sure to use a motor mount that won't break the motor in a crash, I'd recommend Badass.  If you have a rock-solid motor mount and you're going to crash it -- Turnigy is probably the best balance of cheap and probably lasting longer than the interval between crashes.

For Kv, if you're not afraid of math, then take the pack nominal voltage, multiply it by 0.75, and write that number down.  That's more or less the effective voltage you can expect on the motor at the very end of the flight when the batteries are starting to go flat.  Then take your desired RPM and divide it by that number.

So, assuming 10k RPM and four cells, the voltage is (4 cells * 3.7 (volts/cell) * 0.75) = 11.1V.  Then Kv = (10000 RPM) / (11.1V) = 900 RPM/volt.  Choose a motor that has a Kv rating at 900 or higher.

For the current rating, you need to tell us your anticipated weight.  I'm going to assume 72 ounces, because I don't know how light you build, and you just said "60 sized".  I just worked this out, and I get 55A peak (for motor and ESC), and 35A average current.

Note that this 35A average current also determines the amp-hours -- 6 minutes is, conveniently, 1/10 of an hour.  So 35A means 3.5 amp-hours, means 3500mA-hours.  You don't want to drain the batteries dry, so you want to get something like 4000mAh in a good brand (i.e., Thunderpower), or 4500mAh in a cheap brand (i.e. Turnigy).

I have never, ever, built an electric anything that matched the pre-calculated numbers exactly.  So you should use these numbers as your figures for the first few flights.  If you use a charger that tells you how much charge you've put back into the batteries, then after the first five or ten flights you'll have a pretty good idea of whether you hit the battery sizing right, and you can adjust that.

Note that one of the advantages of going to a higher cell count is that as the voltage goes up, the currents (and required cell capacity) goes down.  This means that your motor and battery wires get thinner, lighter, and easier to route.  It also means that the individual cells can have lower capacity, so the overall pack weight stays about the same.  This is why you see a lot of the "big dogs" running more cells.  In a world where Thunderpower had a wider choice of pack capacities you might see more 5-cell batteries, but 6 cells is about right for a 2800mAh pack, and that's a size that Thunderpower sells, at least the last time I looked.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: motor/kv suggestion
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2022, 01:14:58 PM »
I would reconsider the 4s battery on a 60's size.  Most of the motors that can make the whole pattern on a 4s are 46 size.  I am running 5s and it is barely enough.   I run BadAss 3515 710kv motors and I am making room to move to 6s on the ship I am building.    I am the only one locally still running 5s.

Ken

Assuming pack availability you can always go to higher cell capacity -- but that gets kinda crazy.  I mean, you could in theory use one 18000mAh cell for that sized plane -- but absolutely everything else would be absurdly big to carry the current, and -- why?

Pretty much anything electric powered, whether it's cars, airplanes or machine tools, goes to higher voltages as the power level goes up.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: motor/kv suggestion
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2022, 08:30:29 AM »
Rumaging thru sites here on my laptop yesterday and FOUND a place in San Fran. that still carries and has in stock the motors
that I am currently using and need for the new plane.

Ordered them last night.

Thanks all

Carl
Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
Control Line RB


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