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Author Topic: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!  (Read 984 times)

Offline Ron Hook

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Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« on: March 28, 2012, 10:37:57 PM »
I flew my Vector 40 this week and today I was in my 3rd flight of the afternoon and was at the top of an inside loop when the electric motor just stopped. No warning, no slowing down, just a complete stop. Finished the loop and landed with no problems. I am using an AXi 2826/10 with CC Phoenix ICE 50 ESC, a Hubin FM-9 timer, and a Flight Power EVO Lite 4270 mAh 4 cell 14.8 V battery that probably has 40+ cycles on it.

After getting home, I checked the battery and the cells were still balanced and the voltage slightly down because I was only flying 2 minute flights to trim the plane. I put the ESC on my laptop and checked the settings and none of them had changed. I used the Hubin programmer and the settings on the timer had remained the same. I do not know if there is way to check the timer to see if it operating correctly.

So I would appreciate any help that would lead me in the right direction to see if there is answer to this shut down. Tonight, after checking all the equipment, I did do a one minute run in garage and everything operated normally. Will fly tomorrow AM with just level flight to see what happens.

Thanks in advance

Ron Hook
Goodyear, AZ
Ron Hook
Goodyear, AZ

Offline schuang

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 11:41:28 PM »
Download the ESC data log might help for debugging...

Regards,

Sean

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 08:24:15 AM »
Hello Ron,
Did the prop stop or windmill?

Dean P.
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Offline John Hammonds

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 09:03:34 AM »
Motor Bearing?
 I had exactly what you describe happen to me (Apart from I was inverted at the time). No warning the motor just stopped. When I checked everything immediately after switching off the motor was quite stiff although after I got home everything seemed normal. I decided it was a bearing so replaced them and no problems since. I think what happened was the bearing overheated and tightened up. The ESC kept pushing more amps into the motor to satisfy the governor until the ESC shutdown (I run on the very sensitive setting).

Might not be your problem but worth a look as bearings are only cheap.

TTFN
John.
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Offline Ron Hook

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 09:26:26 AM »
Hi Dean,

The prop did windmill after motor stopped. I did test run motor here at home after checking everything else and it seems normal. No strange sounds or noises coming from the motor. Could it be a heat problem? We are pushing 90 here in AZ already as far as air temps. Thought I had built in enough cooling but maybe not.

Thanks,

Ron
Ron Hook
Goodyear, AZ

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 10:29:29 AM »
Ron, were you doing 3 2 minute flights on the same battery? that could be putting you pretty close on capacity,,
It could be heat related, it could even be the ESC hitting the overheat cuttoff, which after it cooled it would work fine,,
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Offline Ron Hook

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 01:50:24 PM »
Hi Mark,

I did use two different batteries for the two flights. Each one fully charged.

I am looking into heat problems. I did fly this AM and will report results a little later today.

Ron
Ron Hook
Goodyear, AZ

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 02:40:15 PM »
What were your Speed control settings? Particularly the Low voltage cutoff setting and are you set for hard or soft cut off? How old are the batteries? Do you store them charged, discharged or in storage mode?
William
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Offline Ron Hook

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 05:14:11 PM »
Hi William,

My batteries about a year old and in good condition. I always store them in storage mode when not in use The cells are each battery are balanced precisely by my Thunder Power charger and balancer. My speed control settings come from Norm Whittle's cookbook. These same settings I have used in another plane with the exact same equipment and have had no problems whatsoever with that plane. My low voltage cutoff is 3.2 volts but I do not come anywhere near that voltage after a flight. My current limiting is set to sensitive and my cutoff type is set to soft cutoff.

Thanks for the help.

Ron Hook
Ron Hook
Goodyear, AZ

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2012, 06:13:19 PM »
Ron,
 I don't see anything that would cause what you are seeing other than you possibly losing track of time and hitting the 2 minute mark without realizing it, but i bet I'm wrong there too. I feel your motor and battery are a bit oversized for that plane so if anything you should be more than fine there. I leave my current limiting on normal but I fly on blacktop 99% of the time. The soft cut off is what I use and I feel all cl fliers should use. There is NO need for a hard cut off in CL It will only lead to crashed planes if it kicks in. In RC uses you want a hard cutoff so if you hit LVC you have power to the servos so you can bring your plane down safely. I know some people will disagree with me on this next item, but Why do we as CL fliers need 3.2V as our LVC? Why not a custom 3 or 2.8 or even 2.5? I know very well that those settings can ruin a battery but a good battery should never ever hit those numbers, and I would rather have my motor sag in power and not shut off at a critical time and save my plane rather than crash my plane and probably lose both the plane and battery. I think that most people would rather keep their plane and lose just the battery. That would also provide some protection against the "oops I forgot that I used that battery already" line. I hope that this helps you. I'm sorry I couldn't pinpoint it down further. You are doing everything right as far as I can tell.
William
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Offline jjorgensen

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2012, 07:05:07 PM »
I had the same thing happen to me. My issue was the esc was getting hot. I didn't have enough cooling. I added a scoop on the side of the fusalage to allow more air into the fusalage, and the problem stopped.
Jim Jorgensen

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 09:32:40 PM »
same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago - turns out a wire had become disconnected from the timer board......
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline Ron Hook

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 12:17:58 AM »
I think that we have hit upon the problem and it is what many of you had already stated: HEAT. Norm Whittle was nice enough to volunteer to look at my logging data to confirm what I thought that I also saw. Being new to logging charts on an ICE ESC, I wanted to be sure that I was reading it correctly. It seems at this point in time that heat indeed might be the problem as relayed to me by Norm. I plan on reworking part of the fuselage to get more air into the compartment where the ESC is located. Battery is just slightly warm after a flight but apparently the ESC is not getting enough cooling. I looked at my Jamison and can easily see that I have more volume of air moving through and over the components than I do in the Vector.

Ron Hook
Ron Hook
Goodyear, AZ

Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: Motor Shut Down - Need Help!
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2012, 07:15:29 AM »
Ron,
It sounds as though you have things pretty well sorted out. I'd imagine  quarters in your battery , ESC, Timer compartment are  pretty tight with the Vector. I  say that because I currently fly its bigger( read heavier , more  draggy ) brother,  the SV-11 and use an E-25 w a 4S 3900 pack. After 5 min & 30sec, I consume 2350-2418 maH, so there's plenty left over.

I think Will D. hit it right with your battery size being large. Being as you have a good # of flights on them, pick up  just one 4S 2700 or at most, one  4S 3300 pack to allow more space for air to circulate. Now, that might cause some cg issues, but you can improvise to regain the lost nose weight. I put stick on weights on  one  battery mount with a  4S 2700 maH to make it the equivalent weight of the 3900 packs. I adjust my timer down to 4 min. and 45 sec. and the big SV-11 lands with a nice safety margin of maH.
You'd be surprised how much more air will circulate that compartment when you don't have it filled as much on all sides.

Some guys will say- you can't complete a pattern in 4 min and 45 sec, but I skip some in between laps and steal a few from the initial level or inverted and it's a practice battery for the SV-11. My hunch is that a 4S 2700 should give you a 5min 30 sec flight and land with a good margin of safety.


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