Author Topic: Motor, Battery, ESC, Timer Question (Read 2207 times)

RogerGreene · « **on:** July 06, 2021, 07:51:19 PM »

Hi All,

I have looked and can't find a logical answer for a newbie/old-timer to go from gas to electric.

Back in the day for a Nobler-type airplane one used a .35 engine, with a 4 oz tank and a 10x6 prop.

Now my problem: what size motor, battery, ESC, timer, and prop size? And since hobby shops are almost non-existing so I must go to Amazon or elsewhere for them.

The motors have a four-digit number then another four-digit number with KV after it. Then the batteries LIPO 3S or 4S then 11.1V 2200mAh then the ESC 30 AMP. I can't find a timer.

Now back to how or which combination of the above-mentioned items will be similar to a .35 engine?

I just don't know what to use, and I realize that there are many variables in each and I probably put in some wrong numbers.

Thanks for your help.

Roger Greene

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2021, 07:58:33 PM »

Go here to see some examples:

https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/list-your-set-up/

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2021, 10:00:37 PM »

Ive seen alot of people who are unfamiliar with electric, get put off BY it, because of the perception of difficulty.

The problem is learning anything new is a challenge.

I realised looking at everyones setups there are MANY ways to do the same task.

Here is a setup you can try as a first one to answer your specific question.
APC 11x5 electric or even 10 x 5
Eflite 25
4S 2200 Zippy Compact Lipo
Castle 45 ESC
Hubin FM9 timer
8500 Rpm

Average 1600 to 1700 mah

Set your flight timer to 5min 25.

There will be lots of debate about what to use, but as a first time, this is easy to use and can be used in slightly bigger up to 46 sized plane.

Your question is " Back in the day for a Nobler-type airplane one used a .35 engine, with a 4 oz tank and a 10x6 prop."

Now you will say you've got an Eflight 25 with a 2700Mah battery running a 11x5 prop. The difference is you can "click set" the rpm to get your desired lap speed.
Vs
Tweaking the needle and hoping you get that nice slow time.

You will also need a charger, power supply for it and a few batteries. But thats the case for ANY lipo.

There is a TON of great information on here but it can be confusing to start with. This setup will be a good start.

Batteries are cheap and 2300 to 3300 Mah refers to the 'size of the tank" your using 4oz tank so that could equate to approx useage of 1500 to 1700.mah battery supply. Best to get more reserve in terms of capacity..
Eg.. I wouldnt recommend a 1800mah battery for a 1700mah usage. Although with a 4oz tank you will Always run empty and starve the engine of fuel to stop, batteries are different. You want a certain "run time" or flight time and you acheive that with the timer. Draining the battery below even 20% isnt good for longevity.

So a bigger better battery might be a good investment.

Electric is easy once you get into it.. but getting there is confusing. Walk first then trotting is easy.

I hope this helps.

Neil Rogers · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2021, 10:29:54 PM »

I had the same questions when I decided to switch to electric. Fortunately I knew some knowledgeable people who had made the switch years before and they told me what to buy for a 60 size stunter. If you know someone that has switched that would be a good starting point.

While there is all kinds of good information to be found on this site, another source of information is the RSM website. They list motors and complete system packages as a glow equivalent size. In your case you would look at their 35-40 competition system or the 46 sport system. It's a place to start if you don't have people who can help you.

One item that you don't want to go cheap on is a charger. You want to be able to charge and discharge multiple batteries at a time. A good one is not cheap, but you won't regret buying it.

Shorts,David · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2021, 11:39:18 PM »

I've had two planes fly great on the same setup PJ described. Chizler, which is almost identical to a Nobler, and now an Oriental. Eflite 25, the 870 I think is the low kv. 11x5.5 APC or 11x5. I'm running reverse pitch now to get a little extra pull on the top of the third loop off the clover.
Castle lite 50esc. Hubin fm9. Zippy 4s 2700 is what I used on the Chizler. Using 5s 2200s on the Oriental. Little better performance at 5 minutes, and a tad lighter I think.
You will want the $20 computer programming gizmo. You can call Castle and they'll walk you through programming the esc. It makes a huge difference if it is set for CL vs. RC.
You'll also want the $75 hubin programming gizmo. Especially if you do several electric planes.
If you do only one electric plane, you can use the KR esc from RSM. It costs more than the Hubin, but doesn't require the expensive programming box, so cheaper for a single plane.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2021, 12:24:37 AM »

Ditto's on PJ's advice. I started with a Cobra 2820/12 which is a 35-46 sized motor and the Castle ESC, Huben FM9 timer. The Huben / Castle combination is a good first because they talk to you. I built a Fancherized Twister and converted a Nobler before trying the 35xx motors in my full body PA's. 11-5 to 6 props. 2200mah batteries. Lots of things to learn but they are easy lessons. Just not having to think about the engine while flying will change your approach to the pattern. The equipment is small but treat it with respect, especially the batteries, because it is powerful. A 4s battery packs 16 volts. It takes 12 to start your car.

Ken

Avaiojet · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2021, 12:33:10 PM »

Great Thread!!

Keep the information coming guys.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2021, 01:18:54 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on July 07, 2021, 12:14:42 PM

Nobler has about 550 sq. in. My Thundergrazer is 575 with thicker airfoil and I use an eflite power 15 so I'm thinking the eflite 25 is going to be way too big.

Motorman

I have never used an eflite motor but from general experience a larger motor can be used in a smaller ship just as a smaller motor can be used in a larger ship. It is the prop and the amount of battery it takes to spin it at the requested RPM and, in the case of the smaller motor can the ESC take the added draw. What took me the longest time to get into my head was that you didn't pick a prop that gave you peak power like you did with an IC engine, you pick a motor that will give you the required power for the prop that makes your plane fly the best and adjust the motor. A Nobler is going to be uncomfortable with anything over an 11" prop. It was designed for a 10". I flew mine IC on a 10-6EW and a three blade 10-5 after converting to electric. A 35xx motor is much heavier than a 28xx BUT it may let you use a lighter battery and will be less drain on the ESC. Brave new world.

Ken

PS - putting a 35xx motor in a Nobler will create a Blivit.

John Rist · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2021, 01:48:00 PM »

As stated before you need a good battery charger. I have and like my 4 unit Thunder Power charger.

https://www.thunderpowerrc.com/collections/chargers/products/thunder-power-rc-quad-4-x-100w-ac-dc-charger-tp4x610hv

Current price seems a little high. I don't think I paid that much for mine. I caught mine on sale. Mine has been spot on wonderful.

Dwayne Donnelly · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2021, 03:53:37 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on July 07, 2021, 12:14:42 PM

Nobler has about 550 sq. in. My Thundergrazer is 575 with thicker airfoil and I use an eflite power 15 so I'm thinking the eflite 25 is going to be way too big.

Motorman

This, one of the biggest mistakes I made in the beginning was over powering my planes, my latest is based on a Legacy 40 which has a 565 sq in wing I'm using a E-Flite Power 15 11X5.5 APC and pulls it with authority, an E-Flite 15 11X5.5 in a Nobler would be a sweet setup.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2021, 05:40:29 PM »

I stand by my recommendation.

Im yet to be convinced you can "overpower" planes..

And yes an EFlight15 would work but Id recommend the 25.

RogerGreene · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2021, 05:53:28 PM »

Wow, guys,

A boatload of information. Now to figure out what to buy.

I am changing the airplane I designed and made which is the one I am holding in my Avatar had a Fox 35. I had a too low pull-out on a reverse wingover which resulted in the fuselage in several parts leaving the wing and stab in one piece. So a reconstruction of the fuselage is in its future.

Thanks again.

Roger

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2021, 02:35:42 PM »

Hi Roger :
Put hundreds of flights on a Nobler ARF( some enhancements including tip weight box, adjustable leadouts, adjustable rudder, airfoiled inboard side of vertical fin/rudder, equal length flaps, Tom Morris controls, stripped/ recovered in Ultra-Cote), and probably a few more.
It began life with an OS-LA 46. That was a nice powerplant, but I converted it to electric after maybe 50 flights.
Here's what it has:
-Power 15
-TP 25C 4s 2800mAh
-Castle Creations Ice Lite 50 ESC
-Hubin FM-9 Timer.
It all worked great using 59' 0.15 lines and it was rather successfully flown through Pampa classes Intermediate & Advanced for 6-7 years. A few classic stunt events, too.
I sold it a few years back because I had three beautiful scratch builds that were becoming hangar queens.
I'd imagine it's still going strong.

TDM · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2021, 07:28:07 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on July 07, 2021, 12:14:42 PM

Nobler has about 550 sq. in. My Thundergrazer is 575 with thicker airfoil and I use an eflite power 15 so I'm thinking the eflite 25 is going to be way too big.

Motorman

This is a misconception. Smaller motor doesn't translate in to a lighter setup. What a smaller motor will do is it will draw an insane amount of Amps and energy to get the job done. So with small motor you just compromised the whole efficiency of the system. With high amp draw and high energy draw means a bigger bigger battery to get the job done, the battery C rating goes up and you need more battery capacity to make up for the demand of power made by the motor. You also need more battery capacity because of all the loss of energy due to the heat created in the process. High amp draw also means a larger ESC.
Smaller motor always equals heavier ESC heavier battery a hot running system.
I did not touch the issue of electric motor efficiency related to the rpm you are running.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2021, 07:46:57 AM »

TDM is correct. The larger motor is better IF it will fit . In the Cobra/BadAss lines you are stuck with the 28xx because a 35xx simply will not fit unless you redesign the nose. He better described the "bigger is really smaller" phenomenon it took me years to learn. Both will give you the same power but the smaller motor will require more of everything else.

Brave New World - Ken

Dwayne Donnelly · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2021, 10:11:09 AM »

Quote from: TDM on July 09, 2021, 07:28:07 AM

This is a misconception. Smaller motor doesn't translate in to a lighter setup. What a smaller motor will do is it will draw an insane amount of Amps and energy to get the job done. So with small motor you just compromised the whole efficiency of the system. With high amp draw and high energy draw means a bigger bigger battery to get the job done, the battery C rating goes up and you need more battery capacity to make up for the demand of power made by the motor. You also need more battery capacity because of all the loss of energy due to the heat created in the process. High amp draw also means a larger ESC.
Smaller motor always equals heavier ESC heavier battery a hot running system.
I did not touch the issue of electric motor efficiency related to the rpm you are running.

I couldn't believe how much more battery a Power 10 used on my Twister compared to a Power 15, as I stated above I have a Power 15 in a Legacy 40, it weighs 45.5 ounce and the 15 pulls it like a truck, excellent line tension, I'm using a Phoenix 45 esc, Fiorotti active timer 11X5.5 prop and I'm only using about 2000 ma. from a 4 cell, very good set up. In my opinion the 15 "is" a big motor for a Nobler size plane.

RogerGreene · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2021, 07:30:20 PM »

The plane will weigh out at about 48oz, 54in wingspan at 500 sq. in. with a 35xx motor with 11x6 prop with 2200 3c lipo battery. I need to make the top and bottom of the nose so the electrical parts won't fall out. I originally was going to put the fox 35 back into it so the engine mount beams are in, then the electrical bug hit me. So I am working around the beams.

ericrule · « **Reply #17 on:** August 03, 2021, 09:45:32 AM »

P.J's advice is one of the best, simple yet realistic I have seen in many years. You would be well served to follow it in our first attempt in electric powered flight. As far as electric components go I suggest you purchase them from either RSM Distribution or Brodak Manufacturing. Both companies sell top of the line parts that have been flight tested in high level C/L competition.
While I would choose a different ESC and a KR timer than those recommended by PJ that is simply a personal preference. This simple fact is that both systems are perfectly balanced and work exceedingly well.
The only other item I would strongly suggest is that you also purchase a wattmeter. Once you get comfortable with your new electric system you, like all of us, will want to "adjust" things. If you do not have a wattmeter you will never know if you are stressing your system by putting too much prop on or running too little of too much rpm. Without a wattmeter to check the amps your are drawing the usual way you find out it's too much is when the smoke starts to come out of the electric parts. If you wan t to know what a wattmeter is and how it works I suggest reading the article by Terry Dunn in AMA's "Park Pilot" Summer 2021 issue. It is basic, well thought out, accurate and easy to understand.

Daniel_Munro · « **Reply #18 on:** August 03, 2021, 11:55:39 AM »

In nobler sized models I have used the following with good success.

Cobra 2820 960kv
40A esc, just a cheap one from Hobbyking like a Turnigy Plush.
KR governor/timer
APC 11x5.5 prop
2200-2700mah 4s battery depending on the model weight.

If you are just starting out in the world of electric CL I can highly recommend the KR timer. Its very easy to programme, reliable and works with cheap ESCs.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #19 on:** August 03, 2021, 01:16:48 PM »

Roger, I am curious where the battery is going. You might consider cutting the tank lid out and replacing it with a screw in battery tray. If this were mine I would put the esc and timer on top with lots of cooling vents and the battery on the bottom. Really hard to position things with the IC rails in the way. On a conversion the battery needs to be as close to where the tank was to keep the vertical CG from going off the reservation. Also, and it is probably too late or you already know, a rear mount makes it really hard to get to the mounting bolts. If you are using a top or bottom hatch make sure that it can't come off if there is a 10lb battery banging on it because that is how much they weigh in a corner. I have personally seen three come out of hatches held on by magnets.

Welcome to Electric, It won't be long that you stop missing the pipe puddles on the circle.

Ken

Brent Williams · « **Reply #20 on:** August 03, 2021, 01:36:12 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on August 03, 2021, 01:16:48 PM

Also, and it is probably too late or you already know, a rear mount makes it really hard to get to the mounting bolts.

Ken

Paul Walker's method for a rear mounted motor is very robust and the mounting bolts are reasonably accessible. The mounting block is 3/8" balsa faced on both sides 1/32 ply. Drilled out, hardwood dowels are underneath the ply at the attachment points. Blind nuts are on the front side of the mounting block. Plenty of air flow through the motor, per Paul's observations.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #21 on:** August 03, 2021, 01:40:43 PM »

Quote from: Brent Williams on August 03, 2021, 01:36:12 PM

Paul Walker's method for a rear mounted motor is very robust and the mounting bolts are reasonably accessible. The mounting block is 3/8" balsa faced on both sides 1/32 ply. Drilled out, hardwood dowels are underneath the ply at the attachment points. Blind nuts are on the front side of the mounting block. Plenty of air flow through the motor, per his observations.

This is the way I mount mine. With the IC logs still in the plane there won't be enough room to slide the motor in from the rear. I use front mounts on legacy stuff.

Ken

RogerGreene · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2021, 12:51:12 PM »

PJ,

I do have an Eflight 25 and it is on a profile as a test-me to get into this electric airplane era. And thanks for the info on your first entry.

Eric,
Thanks for your input, I am in an R/C club WITH a Controline Circle, so I am happy. The members have helped me with the electric gear to get flying.

Ken,
Bolting down the battery is a really good idea, cause velcro probably would let loose. And yes the battery will be on the bottom with the ESC on the top and the timer on the outside so I can see the light. I am using CircuitFlyers Low-Cost timer.

Brent,
I used 1/4" plywood epoxyed and glass cloth in place.

Thanks to all for all the valuable information.

Will keep informed.

~ Roger