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Author Topic: Ran Out of Gas  (Read 3086 times)

Offline Motorman

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Ran Out of Gas
« on: April 18, 2015, 10:08:57 PM »
Went flying today. First flight with a new prop and it took off like a rat racer, about 4.2 sec on 65' lines. Motor was hot when it came down. Let it cool, adjusted the computer thing and went again. Took off normal clocked at 5 sec then started slowing down. Got slower and slower until gravity and drag wins and did 1/2 lap on the grass until it stopped rolling then a few more sec the motor stopped turning. I thought the motor was locking up but it was cool. Put in a new battery and everything was ok again.

Was the battery too low? I guess a Hubin timer/Ice edge 50 doesn't have a low voltage cut off? I measured 14.5 volts (4 cell) so, seems like it should have been enough. Maybe the battery's going bad?

Took the motor apart and the bearings feel ok. I put in some grease and put it back together. Will try again tomorrow.

MM

P.S. How fast do you fly your Sig Banshee?

Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2015, 11:42:37 PM »
What is "adjusted the computer thing..."?  Be specific when describing what has happened and what you did, be very specific. 
Crist
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Offline John Cralley

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 05:42:26 AM »
Oh yes, the Castle Creations Edge 50 does have a low voltage cut off and it sounds like you hit it with it set for soft cut off! Check your ESC on a computer and see what the settings are.  y1
John Cralley
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Offline John Cralley

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 05:44:49 AM »
Double post!  Delete please. Thanks
John Cralley
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 06:41:30 AM »
The adjustment was for lower RPM of course. Was a very soft cut off, if that's what it was, took about 10 laps from slow down to stop. I was waiting for the plane to burst into flames.

MM

Offline John Cralley

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 12:19:35 PM »
The Hubin timer has nothing to do with low voltage cut off. When the voltage hits the cut off level programmed in the ESC the ESC takes control and starts the cut off cycle. The soft cut off is meant prevent a crash resulting from a sudden shut down (cut off). The Castle Creations Edge ESC does exactly what you describe - slows the rpm over a period of time and finally stops the motor. The whole idea is to protect the battery by preventing it from discharging to the point that it is damaged (by over discharge).

Put the ESC on a Castle link cable and check the cut off voltage that is programmed In it. To avoid hitting the low voltage cut off in normal use set it to 3.2 volts (for a li-poly battery). You should be monitoring how many mah you are using during a flight and making sure that you do not exceed 80 ‰ of the battery's capacity. Fully discharging a li-poly battery will kill it (voice of experience)!

Were you using the same battery, without recharging it, for the flight that hit the low voltage cut off??
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 08:24:17 PM by John Cralley »
John Cralley
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 01:49:58 PM »
I had it programed for two 2-1/2 minute flights. I didn't stop to think the fast fight used more than half the battery.

MM

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 06:35:35 PM »
MM,
Ya, you hit the low voltage cut off. The soft cut off does just what you described. I use that also and have hit is a couple times. For me I'd rather the ship just slow down to give me a chance to get it upright or back to level flight rather then just quit.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Motorman

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2015, 07:02:25 PM »
Went flying today. Took three 1 minute trim flights slowing the rpm down each time. First 2 flights motor quit normal with warning sag. On the 3rd flight I finally got the speed I wanted, did a couple of loops then leveled off for a couple of laps then the motor just quit with no warning and gave me beep beep beep............beep beep beep............beep beep beep. What does that mean? Checked the voltage and it was 15.2 slightly below storage voltage and the 4 cells were all even. Did I fry something on that one super fast flight the other day?

MM

Offline Target

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2015, 07:20:23 PM »
MM-

I'm wondering what the main components of your setup are?

Motor with Kv rating?
Battery (4s) What capacity?
Prop size?

Or, better yet, battery size and amps being drawn?

Maybe you DID just "run out of gas"?

I'm curious since I'm about to start my first jaunt into ECL and I (think) I have an idea of how it all works, but that is not to say I can't learn from others before I even commit to flight.

I'm curious what you are experiencing there.

Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2015, 07:44:22 PM »
Beep,Beep, Beep is explained in the ESC instructions.  I suggest you review them.
Crist
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2015, 09:48:09 PM »
Just looked at the manual it says 3 short beeps is an anomaly with the motor, a sudden interruption of the motors rotation but it was flying along just as pretty as you please no bird strike or anything and the motor spins free.  

Low voltage cut off is set for auto lippo 3.6V the battery measured 3.85 on all 4 cells.

I've had weird intermittent problems like this before with a different system. I think there was too much current draw on that one hard run and it fried something in the ESC. I've got some parts I can swap with so, I'll get it sorted when the weather breaks again.

Chris, It's the same system Bob Hunt helped me set up on my Tanager that works so well. Eflight Power 15 motor, Castle Phoenix Edge lite 50, Hubin timer, Hyperion CX G3 4S 2500mah batt, MAS 11-6E. Works great for about a 600 square inch plane. The Banshee is a little overpowered with this system but I wanted the same stuff on both planes.

MM



  

Offline Target

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2015, 10:41:15 PM »
Sounds like you shouldn't be drawing too many amps, maybe you have something going on with the wiring causing a problem?
But you said the last flight went faster, so I guess you made an adjustment to the rpm with the timer? Either that or you changed up the props to a higher pitch?
At any rate, I would take advantage of the CC ESC capabilities and try to get the read from the flights in question.
OR go old school and hook up a what meter and see what amps you are drawing. But the ESC read during flight is way better, since it give you what was happening in the air, not on the ground.
In theory, if you only got 3 minutes of run time and you depleted the battery, you are drawing more amps than normal. Just using basic math, 25A draw should get you about 6 minutes run if you drained the battery completely. I can't imagine you drawing the 45A or so that the 3 minutes would indicate. If so, you have a problem, I would think...

You might want to see if your timing settings and such programed to the ESC are the same as what other folks without trouble are running. I'd look closely at all the wiring and your solder joints also.

I hope you get it sorted!
R,
Chris
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Chris
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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 11:05:30 PM »
You said that the cells measured 3.85v.  Is this with no load on them?  Remember that when flying the voltage will be lower that just sitting there.  Me thinks you hit the low voltage cut-off.  3.6 volts is probably too high to have it set at.  I'd go with 3.4 volts.
Crist
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2015, 09:22:52 PM »
Set the cut off to 3.2v factory default. Looked at the data logging briefly, don't know how I can use it but it looks cool. Windy and rainy today no joy.

MM

Offline Target

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2015, 11:18:41 PM »
I'm interested in your findings. Keep posting.
Hope you have success.
R,
Chris
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Chris
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Ran Out of Gas
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2015, 01:46:34 PM »
Did some more flying today. The first 2 flights the motor ran about half the time out then dropped down to about 500 rpm for 10 sec with no warning then cut off. This was with a MAS 11-6e at 8682 and 8574 rpm for a lap time of 5.12 and 5.28. battery was fine as I was taking 1:15 flights to check airspeed.

Next flights were with an APC 11-5.5 and after several normal fights and shut downs I was at 10,320 rpm and 5.12 lap time.

It seems that higher pitched under cambered MAS is a much bigger load and is causing my ESC problems.


MM




 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:12:03 PM by Motorman »


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