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Author Topic: Motors Chirp  (Read 3362 times)

Offline Howard Rush

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Motors Chirp
« on: June 21, 2014, 11:46:37 PM »
I recently switched from a 14-pole motor to a 10-pole motor on my new dog, and the 10-pole made an itermittent chirping sound.  I thought it might be related to another problem that motor has, but a second 10-pole motor makes the same chirps.  ESC is a Jeti Spin 66.  Timing is set to 25 degrees.  What's the chirping?  Is it bad?
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2014, 06:38:14 AM »
It could be that you run your motor at its resonantion rpm. Try another prop with different pitch so the motor will run at different rpm. I expect shorter bearing life time.

Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2014, 07:03:25 AM »
Hi Howard
I had that problem with a 14 pole motor when I changed the timing.  Went back to "default" & chirping stopped.  Unfortunately I have no idea what timing setting to suggest for your set-up, but I would suggest trying a different setting...
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Russell Bond

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2014, 07:22:37 AM »
I'm using a Plettie with 10 poles on the Spin 66 and Igor timer and my timing is set on 15.
The Hertz are set 8 and it runs perfectly, no chirps. ☺
I've used the RPM from 9000 to 10200 with no problems. (Two different props of course. ;D)
Bandolero

Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2014, 08:43:26 PM »
I found too much governor gain to cause a chirp at the most power hungry point of a maneuver (topping a loop).
Bob
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 01:27:25 AM »
Thanks, folks.  I repitched the prop, reduced the target speed by two units on Igor's timer, and the chirping stopped. 
The Jive Combat Team
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Offline Robert-Jan

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2014, 11:09:04 PM »
Howard,

What motor do you use?
A Plet has an extra bearing. So it should not be in resonance.

Greetings Robert-Jan

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2014, 11:40:29 PM »
Plettenberg 20-16. 
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Offline Robert-Jan

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2014, 12:36:22 AM »
Strange.
I killed 3 AXI motors because of resonance frequency's.
The rotor has 2 bearings on one side.
So the motor has a quite low freqency where it has its resonance point.
And ques what it was right on my prop rpm.
I managed to distroy these motors within a few flights.
They keep running but made an lot of noise.
I changed the bearings, Measured the bell, Filled the space between the magnets etc.
Nothing helped.
I send the motor back to AXI they repaired it (for free, good service!!!). It got a new bell.
But within a few flights........
The noise was so loud that I lost my (illegal) field.

I bought a Plet and didn't have problem since.
A Plet has bearings on both sides of the rotor.
I don't understand what happend with you motor's
What RPM were you running and what is it now?

Greetings Robert-Jan

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2014, 01:20:49 AM »
AXI 2826 has resonation somewhere over 9000 and over 12000 rpm, so best rpm for AXI is somehere at 10 to 11 000 what means prop aproximately 5" (depending on airfoil, diameter etc) that is why we went from old mejzlik 11x5.5 to new 11x5 - and it even give little more power at higher rpm. I changed AXI in my model just now a week ago, because it also did some strange noise in vertical entry of wingover where it accelerates, but I knew bearing was KO after 3 years as it had already visible axial free play, so it was good life time anyway. And yes you are right, it is good to send motor to back to AXI, changing ball bearings on high quality motors is not trivial task, they always rebalange rotor (but I think I got NEW rotor :- ))) ) and they set axial shimming as it should be. We pay usualy ~30 Euro for "renewing", but it is still much less then new motor especailly expensive 2826/13 :- ))

Yes Plettenberg has one extra bearing on other side of rotor, but it does not mean it does not have some resonation rpm. I tried plet. 20-18 with 6 cells and the same prop, it was silent, however at some particular rpm I also hear "some" strange noise. So that large bearing helps, but it is always there.

However if motor loudly screams, then nothing helps only changing bearing and rebalancing - it is not good to fly such motor, it can anytime loose magnets and it can cost model.

Offline Robert-Jan

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2014, 01:43:03 AM »
However if motor loudly screams, then nothing helps only changing bearing and rebalancing

Yes indeed my advice:
Sent it to AXI. (I was not able to repair it myself. And I got a brand new rotor)
And somehow change the RPM.

I am disappointed that the resonance frequency with a Plet is still there.
I think the frequency is at an other point because the bell has an other diameter and length.

Greetings Robert-Jan

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2014, 01:48:43 AM »
I think it is not as bad as with open bell rotor like AXI, when I first time hear that noise I was scared what it was :- ))))))

that was with old APC 12x6 running at 9000 on AXI 2826/12 and guy from model motors (he wanted to see how we use them) told me about those rpm limits ... flying at 10 to 11 000 was his suggestion even before I got that problem firs time ... so obviously I did not follow his suggestion, but then I learned he was right :- ))))))))))

Offline Paul Walker

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2014, 10:20:24 AM »
I have found that the resonance is also influenced by his the motor is mounted. I started getting more of this "noise". I was unsure if why it started. Then I realized that I had switched from a heavier fiberglass mount to a thinner and lighter carbon piece I made! 

I switched back to the fiberglass unit and the noise went away.

Kind of reminded me of the carbon mount issue on the B-17. Having a part with several magnitudes if stiffness greater between the vibration source and the damping structure is not good. Softening up that stiff member resolved the problems for me.

Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2014, 11:57:36 AM »
Last night mine went from a chirp to a growl within six flights.  Bearings were replaced with the more expensive high speed ceramic from Boca.  I was warned but they were already purchased.  Howard's Plettenberg is working well.  No sign of any chirp last night.
Mike

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2014, 09:48:03 PM »
I have found that the resonance is also influenced by his the motor is mounted. I started getting more of this "noise". I was unsure if why it started. Then I realized that I had switched from a heavier fiberglass mount to a thinner and lighter carbon piece I made! 

I switched back to the fiberglass unit and the noise went away.

Kind of reminded me of the carbon mount issue on the B-17. Having a part with several magnitudes if stiffness greater between the vibration source and the damping structure is not good. Softening up that stiff member resolved the problems for me.
Hi Guys,
Resonance issues sure can be weird!
Like you described, Paul ... one part changes the whole system.

take care,
  Dean Pappas
Dean Pappas

Offline Robert-Jan

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2014, 12:31:31 AM »
Hmmmm.

My AXI was running on a cardinal ARF.
Not the stiffest nose.
Should front or back mounting of the motor also have an influence?

Greetings Robert-Jan

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Motors Chirp
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2014, 09:52:46 AM »
Hello Robert-Jan,
It's very very likely that it would. Front mounting with a bearing-ed rear support is the most conservative design.
As they say, your mileage may vary!

Regards,
  Dean Pappas
Dean Pappas


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