Will,
Send me the info on how to order what I need.

Paul Walker

SH e-mail will do!

Thanks

just to quit messing with dip switches

  ... that is why I use Jeti Box ... I was too lazy to make own prog box

Here's a mini-review.  I managed to pick-up one of Wil's new FM-9 timer systems at Toledo, have not had a chance to fly it but it is very easy to walk through settlings on the ground.  The programming box has a large easy to read display.   Minimum flight time is now 1 minute so test flights just got even shorter.  Key up or down to set flght time, it is reasurring to set the flight time to the second - far closer and easier than what we could do with the pots.  Ditto the delay setting.

It will work with several different ESC's and programming modes.  It sets the RPM by percengtage of PWM.  The full range in Phx High Gov is 8,040 to 12,880.  Thus we are certainly safe.  I think the increments are small enough about 70 RPM) to  be useful.  The RPM setting scheme is similar for the Hacker, Hacker 1/2A, Jeti-Spin, & Schulze, but the increments (and presumably the range) are somewhat different for each brand.

It is clear that this new timer will be a god-spend you guys using Hi-gov mode.  You can throw away your optical tachs and dial in the RPM you want, and adjust it in precise increments.  You can also easily bump up or down in small discrete steps if conditions change and know exactly what you get.  In my mind this makes it light years easier to use Hi-gov than it was before.  In fact I would be willing to try Hi-gov because I would feel certain about the exact RPM I am setting.

For Castle's Set RPM mode, you can program in RPM 1,2,or 3 as before, and that calls-up whatever RPM you have in the ESC.

The only other difference is that it will be important to mount the timer where it is accessible to get to the two plugs needed to program the timer.  However, it is no longer necessary to mount the timer where you can access the pots.  In fact I would envision sliding the timer into a pocket,  slipping it out to program it then tucking it away again.  Of course you can still use a remote starting switch.

For simple ESC's like the Arrowind (Super Clown), E-Flite, or Turnigy, the new timer lets you call up the throttle setting in percents, then has 15 different "throttle-up" schedules to maintain flight speeds as the battery drains.  The max throttle is limited to 91% of PWM signal with the remainider held in reserve for throttle up. This should let us get all that is available from the simple ESC's.

There is also a simple non-compensating throttle mode that will let you access all 100% throttle, but will of course give up RPM as the battery wears down. 

It seems Mr. Hubin keeps coming up with very useful innovations.  The ability to incrementally change RPM settings (in High Gov mode) without a tach or a PC is a great leap forward.  The "no-doubt" settings for flight time and delay are also valuable. For those of us flying fleets of electric airplanes with different ESC's the FM-9 will be a great all-purpose timer.   

Looks great Will, thanks for all of your support and hard work.  I'm sure many of us electric control line enthusiests will be jumping on board.

Roger Anderson

I gots to get me one a' dem ....

Great job, Will.  Can't wait to get my hands on one.

I'll Let you know how it works, I should get mine Wensday, I think depends on the USPS.        
We GOT to thank Will for his innovation in ECL.

Dean,
    The program divides the interval from 1.00 to 2.00 ms into 200 steps, so the resolution is 5 microseconds for the governed RPM modes. (The calibration between pulse width and RPM that I measure on my test stand is rather non-linear, so I've taken my measurements for every 5% throttle increment [.05 ms] and used linear interpolations inbetween to obtain the displayed RPMs.) Accurate calibration can be tricky at the high RPM end because of limitations of the battery/ESC/motor combination--but at least what you get should be accurately reproducible.

In the "throttle" and the "compensated throttle" mode, I made it a little easier (programming-wise) by using increments of 1% (10 microsecond) steps.

The calibrations are different for each ESC and take up quite a bit of the memory (about 2400 assembly language lines altogether, now), so I had to switch to a 4K PIC -- but that leaves plenty of room for future additions.

Will, how you calibrated rpm for motors of different poles count?

And how you did it for Jeti Spin - that ESC needs its own RPM setting - do you expect some constant rpm setting?

Hi Will

Is there any likelihood (or possibility) of the programmer needing updating at any stage down the track, (e.g. flash update) for future timers and improvements or perhaps to include more/different ESCs?

Regards
Warren

Igor,
    With the Phoenix High RPM mode, I've gotten basically the same calibration with different motors (Axi 2814/10 and Rimfire 35-36-1000), without considering pole count, and it seems to correspond with what users are getting. (My FM-2a, however, has two pots that allow throttle setting over the whole range.)
    With the two Hacker calibrations, I've used the motors and the ESCs that RSM is specifying.
    With the JetiSpin, I used a Spin 66A and basically the settings you reported using, except specifying a range from 8,000 to 11,000 RPM, with an Axi 2808/24 (motor poles = 14). (initial point of 1.0 ms, end point of 2.0 ms, linear throttle curve, heli constant-RPM 3D mode)

Thanks, that it what thought.

Sa far as I know both motors (axi and rimfire) and also several others have the same pole count, so it means if someone uses 12 or 16 poles, it will need little recalculation - may be you can add parameter "poles count" to your programmer :-)


Jeti is not problem it has already poles count as a parameter, so if you set 8000 - 11000 then it works indepnedently on poles. On the other hand you can set RPM also directly to the ESC, so .... :-) ... but anyway your 200 resolution can go down to 20rpm with jeti so that is an advantage :-)

Where can I find general documentation for the Jeti box and its protocol?  

Thank you, Igor.  I would probably put the software into the programming box to save weight. 

Thank you, Igor.  I would probably put the software into the programming box to save weight. 

In 787 digital avionics, we set all unused bits to zero for weight saving.

My old boss who spent several dog's ages at Sikorsky told me about this program manager who was pestering the engineers about the weight of some items on the system Bill Of Materials. The on-board firmware was on the BOM and of course, its weight was listed as zero. Being a real rocket scientist, this guy demanded a real number, and zero just wasn't a real number (at least not to his non-mathematical self) Now, this was a bunch of years ago, and someone in the group still had a pile punch cards, for nostalgic purposes, so the firmware writer slams the several pound pile of cards onto the PM's desk. The PM asks, "What does that weigh?" At this point the engineer announces that, "We only use the holes. See!"

take care,
   Dean P.

"The angels fly because they take themselves lightly." G.K. Chesterton

I just received my new FM-9 programer box and two FM-9 timer units with remote start.  I just don't see how things could get much easier.  Will Hubin really did a nice job.  We plan to give the new timer units a good work out as soon as we get some acceptable flying weather around these parts.  Thanks again Will for all of your excellent efforts and support.

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Roger Anderson and them thare' other Anderson guys!

Buddy Wieder and I flew Buddy's new "Ryan's Eagle" model yesterday for the first time. We used the new FM-9 ( timer system and I just wanted to post a quick note to say how impressed I am with it. It's amazingly easy to understand and the prog box is extremely easy to use. We used the Phoenix high RPM (Governor mode) setting, and initially set the  flight times for one minute. This made it easy to get the right handle setting and insure that the model was flying correctly before going to longer flights.

Buddy's ship is essentially a Saturn with different fuselage aesthetics. It is a foam wing model with 660 square inches of wing area and with the Hyperion 4000 mAh 4S battery on board it weighs in at 63 ounces. That's equivalent to a 57 ounce glow model with an empty 6-ounce fuel tank. An AXI 2826-10 motor is used and it is front mounted. Buddy has it set up for 68 feet of .015 cables (center to center). The ESC is a Castle Creations Phoenix 45 in Governor mode. We used one of Denny's APC 13 x 4.5 pith props and set the speed with the prog box for 10,100 rpm. The ship flies at a 5.2 second lap with this set up.

Again, the FM-9 timer system made it all so very easy and it ran and timed things perfectly! I'd highly recommend this system!

Bob Hunt    

Hi Will,
Your FM-9 sounds like just what we need. I have the Kaz system and really like it but it is no longer available. Your FM-9 seems to have similar characteristics.
I would like to order one programmer and two FM-9 Timers.
Please send ordering instructions to my E-Mail: NLEMAK@CThanks,
Nick Lemak

Some of the early FM-9 timers showed an occasional distressing disinterest in being programmed, sometimes even after many days of working properly. (They still flew the airplane based on the last programming session, but they didn't respond to the programmer when the user pushed the "OK" button, after the opening display on the LCD, so the flight time and other parameters couldn't be updated.)

When the problem finally occurred here, I determined that the problem was that the timer could sometimes boot up too much faster than the programmer, and therefore think that it had been powered up by the flight battery rather than by the programmer. Serial numbers above about 736 were treated to extra delay time for the timer to recognize the programmer, and this solved the problem--at least in my kitchen!

The most likely explanation for this strange example of two computers (actually three computers) changing their behavior with time is that is related to temperature changes (the LCD has its own microcontroller to which the programmer has to talk). But to provide a really robust solution, I've added a capability for the user to directly force the timer to listen to the programmer. This is by holding down the start button on the timer before and during turning on the programmer.

I'll be replacing all FM-9 timers shipped so far with ones with this updated firmware (effective with serial numbers 794 and above), at no charge to the users. It will take a week or ten days to get enough circuit boards in stock and the timers built and sent out. I sincerely apologize to anyone who has been troubled by this problem.

In other news, there is a new version of the FM-9 timer (the FM-9V), one with a pot that allows the user to change the RPM by +/- 500 or +/- 1000 RPM (assuming the High RPM mode of the Phoenix), without using the programmer.

Will
Can you please provide information for us who are very new to electric flight on how to order this timer.  It really does seem to be the right way to go.
Andy Borgogna