Author Topic: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !! (Read 3527 times)

Vincent Corwell · « **on:** July 27, 2006, 01:34:47 AM »

With the help of Frank Carlisle, Ron King and Sergio Zigras I built a ARC Cardinal,
full take apart , built up fuselage. Ended up at 58 ounces, so I flew it anyway, 3 flights.

1.   68 foot lines, 4 second lap, way overpowered even at grossly overweight
   The take apart I used failed after 10 laps, so I nursed it in level flight
   until the timer shutdown
2.   Repaired the damage and flew again with the same result, this time
   the outboard wing parted from the fuse and floated away!! The inboard
   continued to fly level for me with nothing holding it into the fuselage!!
3.   I epoxied the whole mess into a one piece plane and flew one more time
   but the weight was now 66 ounces and stunts were not possible.

Throughout all this the power train / timer performed perfectly and I am now
building a larger lighter one piece plane

I am waiting for delivery of a JMP timer and would now like to a puter link
for programming these, Ron

Axi 2826/10 motor
Castle 45 amp ESC
Castle puter link to program above
TT 4 cell 14.8 V 2100 amp x 2 batteries
Zigras timer
11 x 5 Wood Zinger prop

Vincent

Ron King · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2006, 06:17:35 AM »

Vincent,

Doggone. I didn't know Sparky set up a section for electrics over here. I just replied over on the SSW board.

Ron

RandySmith · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2006, 11:41:47 AM »

Quote from: Vee Cee on July 27, 2006, 01:34:47 AM

With the help of Frank Carlisle, Ron King and Sergio Zigras I built a ARC Cardinal,
full take apart , built up fuselage. Ended up at 58 ounces, so I flew it anyway, 3 flights.

1.   68 foot lines, 4 second lap, way overpowered even at grossly overweight
   The take apart I used failed after 10 laps, so I nursed it in level flight
   until the timer shutdown
2.   Repaired the damage and flew again with the same result, this time
   the outboard wing parted from the fuse and floated away!! The inboard
   continued to fly level for me with nothing holding it into the fuselage!!
3.   I epoxied the whole mess into a one piece plane and flew one more time
   but the weight was now 66 ounces and stunts were not possible.

Throughout all this the power train / timer performed perfectly and I am now
building a larger lighter one piece plane

I am waiting for delivery of a JMP timer and would now like to a puter link
for programming these, Ron

Axi 2826/10 motor
Castle 45 amp ESC
Castle puter link to program above
TT 4 cell 14.8 V 2100 amp x 2 batteries
Zigras timer
11 x 5 Wood Zinger prop

Vincent

HI Vincent

If your running 4 second laps your just way too fast not way too much power, Power and speed are 2 very differant things. Maybe it would help to use a 12 x 4 1\2 or 12 x 4 prop to slow this thing down.
By the way how long does the plane run thru the flight?

Thanks
Regards
Randy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2006, 12:49:22 PM »

Hey Vince,
I just found your thread here.
First congratulations! on completing your electric model.
Secondly, bummer it didn't work as anticipated.
Third....Don't give up yet.

I've had some time to consider this and I have come to believe that the place we are going wrong is in trying to use traditional stunt designs with our electric components.
We got too much drag and too much weight. ( Mind you I am not an aerodynamic whiz kid so you should discount everything I have to say and think for yourself).

Anyway..too much drag works good for IC since it gives the engine work to do. And too much weight to. dampen vibration.

I'm thinking a thinner airfoil and an air frame more like what the rubber power guys use is going to give us better performance for the electrics.
A lot less nose moment too.

My plan is to get a rubber power scale kit. Enlarge the plan, make some changes (wing area for one) and give that a whirl.

I'm not so sure that even with an IC engine that 66 oz. Cardinal would be a great performer.
Maybe an ARF Cardinal would be the ticket as it would be much lighter.

There are guys like Bob Hunt and Mike Palco that this seems to work for. But I think that they're the exceptions to the rule.

I'll keep coming to this department. Perhaps our collective experience will turn the tide.

Ron King · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2006, 02:00:57 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on July 27, 2006, 12:49:22 PM

I've had some time to consider this and I have come to believe that the place we are going wrong is in trying to use traditional stunt designs with our electric components.
We got too much drag and too much weight. ( Mind you I am not an aerodynamic whiz kid so you should discount everything I have to say and think for yourself).

Anyway..too much drag works good for IC since it gives the engine work to do. And too much weight to. dampen vibration.

I'm thinking a thinner airfoil and an air frame more like what the rubber power guys use is going to give us better performance for the electrics.
A lot less nose moment too.

My plan is to get a rubber power scale kit. Enlarge the plan, make some changes (wing area for one) and give that a whirl.

I'm not so sure that even with an IC engine that 66 oz. Cardinal would be a great performer.
Maybe an ARF Cardinal would be the ticket as it would be much lighter.

Frank,

I'll certainly agree with some of your ideas. Bob Hunt spent a lot of time building the lightest airframes he could for the last WC. Bob is a super builder anyway, but to hear him talk about how light his new components were made me question my own ability (and sanity).

We can get rid of a lot of the vibration dampening structure and I discovered in my new model that we can also make the tail structure lighter. It still has to be stiff, but not as much as with an IC engine. I'm not as certain about the typical free flight construction. My early days were spent chasing Nordic A-2 gliders and they were very light (spell that flimsy).

Obviously, I'll also agree with your choice of the ARF/ARC Cardinal. That is the airframe for my Shocker and has proven to be a very good stunt machine.

While I'm still struggling to replace my traditional big "PAMPA" ship with an electric version, I don't plan to build any more IC powered profiles. The electric Cardinal fills that niche perfectly. Thanks to Steve Fitton for the picture of me with my Shocker at Huntersville.

Cheers,

Ron

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2006, 10:33:52 PM »

Ron,

I have an E Flite 46 that you can borrow to try in your plane it is supposed to work with 14.8 V 4200 battery however it needs a 60 amp esc you can borrow that too.
I have a Hyperion 4020 /14 I can use an am curios about the E Flite 46 but will be a while getting to use it. Are you interested as I will not be using the Eflite for
a long time and would like someone to test it out to see what they think?
I am sure it can fly a larger plane no problem with 12-14 in props.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2006, 04:59:30 AM »

Ron,
Nice picture of you and the shocker.

I feel like I'm on the right track as far as looking to design the plane for the electric rather than convert conventional stunters. Especially so, since your last post.
I'm going to start looking for something to build for the electric set up I have. I'll be taking the twin to the paint room soon and will have a clear table to get started.

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2006, 07:16:22 PM »

Hi,
You don't need a bigger ESC, and you can't even use it. The CC45 is plenty. Why? With a 4.2 A-H battery, and a 6-minute flight, 42 amps will utterly flatten the battery. Since LiPos shouldn't be discharged below 75 or 80% at worst, you are going to be running 30 or 31 amps at most with that battery. I'll bet the CC45 runs at 60A all day long, too! Those boys don't underbuild their stuff.
Hope this helps.

Dean Pappas

Quote from: Walter Hicks on July 27, 2006, 10:33:52 PM

Ron,

I have an E Flite 46 that you can borrow to try in your plane it is supposed to work with 14.8 V 4200 battery however it needs a 60 amp esc you can borrow that too.
I have a Hyperion 4020 /14 I can use an am curios about the E Flite 46 but will be a while getting to use it. Are you interested as I will not be using the Eflite for
a long time and would like someone to test it out to see what they think?
I am sure it can fly a larger plane no problem with 12-14 in props.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2006, 07:49:06 PM »

Just thinking why can't the motor ESC be turn down for the right flying lap times? or is everyone running the motor at full speed? in R/C the guys have speed control!

Author Topic: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !! (Read 3527 times)

Vincent Corwell

CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

Ron King

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

RandySmith

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

frank carlisle

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

Ron King

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

Walter Hicks

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

frank carlisle

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

Dean Pappas

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!

Larry Wong

Re: CANT SAY I DID NOT TRY !!