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Author Topic: Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries  (Read 588 times)

Offline Russell Bond

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Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries
« on: April 12, 2011, 04:46:12 PM »
Are there any advantages to using a LiFe (A123) battery over a Lipo?
If I want to try one, which battery would match the Lipo that I am using now?
The Lipo I am using is a 4s 3300mah 20c Turnigy Nano-Tech and I use about 2400mah out of it per flight.
I notice HobbyKing sells the A123s quite cheap that's why I was thinking of trying one.
(The motor I am using has a Kv of 930 and I'm spinnng the 13x4.5 prop at 9500rpm.)
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Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 07:33:06 PM »
there are 2 advantages -
1: they wont blow up/catch fire like a mistreated LiPo
2: you can recharge them quickly, and in the plane 

1:disadvatages - they are HEAVY
2:you need to wire up your own pack, including balance lead
3:you need to work out a different system to the LiPo. see Igor Burger setup
4: they are HEAVY
5: the one being sold by Hobbycity are NOT A123 packs
6: they are HEAVY
7: you will need 6 or 8 batteries to get the correct voltage and each cell is heavy
8: you cant change the capacity of the pack - as you need to wire them in series to get the right voltage- but you cant wire them in series AND parrallel to get the right voltage AND capacity

did I mention they are heavy?  LL~
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline Russell Bond

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Re: Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 08:07:57 PM »
Yes!....You did mention they are HEAVY!!!!.......LOL     LL~
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 01:49:34 AM »
The most important point is, that hey can be built in the fuselage ... because:
 
1/ they are not kids baloons
2/ they almost do not have looong CV phase at charging, so they can really be charged in 15 mintutes (unlike lipo which can be charged at high current, but full capacity is recharged after long CV phase)
3/ they not need balancer
4/ they work well HOT
5/ I do not know about any failed cell yet, the battery after 500-600 flights lost ony 100mah of capacity

The weight disadvantage is not so bad, if you consider they can be discharged to 0 capacity, I even know flyer who do not have timer, he just fly until ESC cuts off :-)))

The lower voltage makes 6cell pack equivalent aproximately to 5cell lipo (A123 is little higher).

They have only one capacity, so smal adjustments can be done by number of cell in serie, not big problem, but it can in some cases lead to motor of different KV.

Old cells can be former to 4s2p blocks what makes 12V "fuel cans" which have equivalen charging and discharging voltage as and 12V lead acid battery  VD~

Offline Andrew Borgogna

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Re: Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 11:51:33 AM »
Igor
What is the weight difference between LiPol and LiFe if it near the 20% mark then your point about taking them to 0% capacity makes the weight a non issue. 
Andy
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 12:26:52 PM »
I am from the Ni-Cad generation.  Ni-Cads also can be drawn to ZERO however they have a drop in voltage during the discharge.  If LiFe have the same voltage drop headroom at the end of the run could be a problem.  LiPos at 80% still have a good voltage level - ?????  Don't Know just food for thought.

 ???   :P   D>K
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Lipos v LiFe (A123) batteries
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 01:06:36 PM »
My usual 5:00 flight with 12x6 prop takes aproximately 2000mAh ... when I tested 6s Lipo 2200mAh I needed aproximately 1750mah ... in my eyes good safe "dischargable" value ... may be with some reserve for aging (where are lipos little worse compared to A123)

A123 weight is 6x70g=420 plus some cabling which I cannot measure, because I built the pack inside the fuselage (the model does not have dismoutable cowl) ... the Lipo battery weights 395g ... so there IS some weight and also capacity disadvantage, but it is not something horrible. The real problem comes, when model needs weight to tail, then the weight difference could be twice more (because of lead it tail).

Regarding discharge curve - voltage during discharge of A123 can even grow at high discharge currents because of heating. I think the voltage in our application is almost flat till end.


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