To All,
Hi KIM,
You said: " ..... The very first issue that I want to take exception to is the idea that WEIGHT does not matter. Assuming the above about your building skills, IT MATTERS MORE THAN JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE ON THE PLANET!!! ....."
I wish you would show some passion in your posts, your just way too blase about this topic.
I'm not sure if it matters THAT much, but it is important. I think what you meant is that the P/W RATIO is the most important thing. (as you alluded to in the rest of your post). This I agree with 100%. I just feel that we need to make sure we put as much importance on the POWER side of the equation as we do on the weight side.
I think the supreme hang up on weight comes from the decades of flying CLPA with Fox .35s (very little power) so the only way to make this critical equation work was to lower the weight at all costs. To make matters worse, these weak engines could not pull a high lift airfoil so we had thin airfoils (lower drag) that made the wing loading (more accurately the weight to lift ratio) even more of a problem.
Now we have more than enough power (ECL or Piped IC) to carry a little more weight and STILL have enough power left over to drag a thick, high lift, airfoil through the air. The higher lift airfoils and relatively large wings (660 sq. in. is LARGE compared to the "Classic" size planes) take care of the weight to lift ratio problem, even with a few extra oz from a modern well made ARC plane. .... Your's and Paul's 750 size planes are even better! (BTW, what do you think the top limit will be for wing area? And weight?)
I agree that a "Purpose built" ECL plane is the optimum set up, especially for the highest levels of CLPA. But I am not convinced that a straight, modern IC Kit or ARC conversion with a few lightening holes and modified front end is not far behind. AND they are as good as "MOST" CLPA flyers can build. Many good ARC ECL setups will get someone to the top of ADVANCED and well into Expert. We will soon see some EXCELLENT, higher priced, light weight, quality ARCs come on the market. Look for Moon's new products, and others. These new ARCs will be a very good match for an ECL conversion. (not perfect, but still very good) and they will be lighter than most average modelers could build on their own.
In the Dark Arts, IMAC, and other areas, our ARC/ARFs are as good (straight, light and beautifully finished) as the very BEST builders can make and much better than ANY normal modeler can ever hope to build. We in CLPA may not be a big enough market to ever get to this level, but our CL ARC/ARFs will continue to improve.
As a "worst case" example, take my totally STOCK ARF P-40, no attempt to lower the weight. ........... (You had better be sitting down to read the GTO weight ;-)....... 57 oz. on a 560 sq in wing. (I even flew it at 60 oz for 40 flights with the Eagle Tree data logger on it! Yikes ;-). This plane flys GREAT. This is just not my opinion, but several VG EXPERT pilots have flown it and were shocked at how well it flew. It pulls strong in the power grabbing hour glass, where P/W ratio is paramount. It's modern thick airfoil helps a lot in carrying the weight. ..... Would a lighter plane fly better? Probably. In dead calm, Definitely, in wind, I'm not sure. But it still flys a very good pattern and is competitive.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am not advocating heavy planes. I am only saying that we should make sure we are not letting any past ideas cloud our judgment on todays modern setups and too easily discard the possibility that a good ECL conversion can not be a competitive machine. There are MANY pilots flying in B,I, and AD. And they would be very pleased at the performance of an ECL plane converted from one of the present made for IC kits or ARC/ARFs.
Instead of always talking in terms of XX oz is good or bad, maybe we should talk more about P/W ratios and Lift/W ratios. As we go up in wing area and thicker airfoils our wing volume increases by the cube, not just the square. Lift goes up very fast. When we go up a little in size of our plane we get an increase in the all important Reynolds #. (We fly our DA planes at 32 oz/sq ft and they FLOAT through the air and never feel "heavy", because we operate with thick airfoils, and higher R #s.) And as Dean has said before, speed has a large impact on lift. Our increased power with modern ECL allows us to use longer lines which allows higher speeds (more lift) to the limits of our 70' rule while still remaining at a comfortable 5 sec/lap.
Again, I agree with you 100% that P/W ratio is the most important element in our CLPA planes. This bodes well for ECLs future!
Hi DEAN,
Have you looked at the new Hacker "40" series of motors. They cost the same as the AXI, and I think they are better. I have used them a lot in RC. Will uses Hackers in his beautiful Bomber and likes them a lot. This 40 series weigh a little more(9oz.), but they have more bearings, and a fan as standard, and because of their larger size, I am guessing they put out a little more power? Here is the link:
http://www.hackerbrushless.com/motors_a40.shtmlHi VINCENT,
Don't worry about the minor memory loss, your not alone. I missed a trophy at a contest this year because during the H-8s I could not remember if I had done one or completed two yet, so I did one more (3rd one). All this was in what, < 8 seconds? Now THAT is a bad memory!
Getting older is the Pits sometimes!
I think you will really like your Legacy with the power system suggested by Kim and Mike. I'm looking forward to seeing how my Score ARC (same size) flys with the Hacker 40. ..... Please keep us posted with your results.
In the winter, do you fly between the raindrops there in Beautiful Ireland? I think my camouflaged P-40 would disappear flying at one of your lush green sites? Congratulations on being listed as the 5th best country in the world to live in! You ranked way ahead of us.
Regards,