Author Topic: Latest Lipo Battery's - What coming? (Read 4130 times)

Dennis Toth · « **on:** February 02, 2014, 04:42:26 PM »

Guys,
In a lot of the country we are in the grip of winter. So let's look at what's coming for the Spring as far as new battery advances. Thunder Power has G8 cells that are suppose to be lighter and have faster charging rate at 12C. What are the other vendors offering? Is anyone coming out with packs that can be drawn down to 90%? What else is new?

Best, DennisT

Robertc · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2014, 07:22:05 PM »

In the grip of winter in Jupiter, Florida?

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2014, 06:18:22 PM »

Is a warm grip.

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2014, 12:39:41 PM »

Quote from: Peter Ferguson on February 05, 2014, 06:18:22 PM

Is a warm grip.

Pete, WE just had a blizzard and I don't mean dairy Queen. It was snowwwwwwwwww.@@?

!!!!!!!

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2014, 09:45:35 AM »

So other than Thunder Power there is nothing new this year? 270 people looked at this post and only 3 commented and no one has any new information? Come on other's must have something coming out. The batteries are the most expensive and heaviest part of out ECL ships and the area that needs the most improvement. Is everyone just using old stuff?

Best, DennisT

John Cralley · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2014, 12:58:48 PM »

Well Dennis, there is plenty of "new" battery technology out there! Just Google _"new lithium battery technology" and eat your heart out!!

Trouble is that new stuff has not trickled down to batteries available for our models. Wow, when the new "super" batteries do become available, we may have to add ballast to our planes to keep them from being too light (is that possible---- too light???).

55chevr · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2014, 06:26:01 PM »

Too light ... like too rich or too thin.

PatRobinson · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2014, 09:41:03 PM »

Hi Dennis,

I would like to ask for more detail specifics from your source. The Thunder power website lists a 25C 5s 2700 G-8 battery as weighing 290 grams or 10.229 oz. and a 45C 5s 2700 G-8 battery weighing 348 grams or 12.275 oz. You also mentioned 12C but I'm not sure what that refers to. If this is a 12C battery what do you give up compared to a current 25C battery. I am just a beginner at this stuff but wouldn't a lower C rating increase charge time? I'm not sure so I'm asking.
Longer charge time could require a need for more batteries so a trade off may need to be determined. Again, I don't know so I'm just asking.
My question is what does your source list the weight of this new G-8 battery to be and just to be sure what C rating is this new battery. Lighter is a non-specific descriptive. Actual weights are more useful for someone making a battery selection for a new plane. Lighter is good but by how much is the question? Hopefully giving specifics may spur further input from others. Thanks for your inquiry. Pat Robinson

Russell Bond · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2014, 05:39:35 PM »

I think you'll find the 12C mentioned is the max charge rate for the battery.
So if it is a 2700mah battery, you can charge the battery up to 32 amps.
(I don't recommend it though, less charge rate and the battery would last longer.)

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2014, 10:55:07 AM »

Quote from: Kim Doherty on February 11, 2014, 09:28:08 AM

12C is the max DISCHARGE rate !!! NOT the max CHARGE rate!!!

If you tried to charge at 12C you would have quite a fireworks display.

You should go back and read the whole thread -- the OP mentions ThunderPower G8 cells as having a 12C CHARGE rate. One example, from TP's site:

Product Description

3300mAh 3-Cell/3S 11.1V G8 Pro Force 70C LiPo

Specifications:

Max Charge: 12C

Max Charge Current: 39.6A

Max Cont. Discharge: 70C

Max Cont. Current: 231A

Kim Doherty · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2014, 11:45:32 AM »

Quote from: Mike Anderson on February 11, 2014, 10:55:07 AM

You should go back and read the whole thread -- the OP mentions ThunderPower G8 cells as having a 12C CHARGE rate. One example, from TP's site:

Product Description

3300mAh 3-Cell/3S 11.1V G8 Pro Force 70C LiPo

Specifications:

Max Charge: 12C

Max Charge Current: 39.6A

Max Cont. Discharge: 70C

Max Cont. Current: 231A

Thanks Mike

OOOPs!!!! my bad

Still, using 70C batteries is a waste. You are paying for weight and performance you do not need and will not use.

Kim.

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2014, 12:09:39 PM »

Not only that, but I can't think of any reason to need a 5 minute charge, even if there were a 40 amp charger available. Way back when, we thought we were doing well to get a 7 cell nicad charged in 15 minutes. Take 3 batteries to the field and fly all day (RC sailplanes, mostly).

William DeMauro · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2014, 06:05:33 PM »

Quote from: Mike Anderson on February 11, 2014, 12:09:39 PM

even if there were a 40 amp charger available.

There is a 40 amp charger available!!!! http://www.usastore.revolectrix.com/Products_2/Cellpro-PowerLab-8-EC5-version_2/Cellpro-PowerLab-8_797 . In fact it even comes in a dual version. I also believe that I-Charger also make a dual 40 amp charger. The problem we have in this country is that our electrical system runs on 110v and when you start running that kind of power you need amps so either you have to set up a 220v line in your house(expensive in most cases) or you need a charger that can run on 48 volts which I believe the DOU's can do. Now not only do you have the difficulty of finding a 48v Power Supply but you need one that puts out massive amps to run these things. For me, no problem, I will just construct a 48V repurposed server power supply , but even that will have some weight to it. At the moment I will stick with my 24v supply and settle for charging 12 batteries from storage mode in 20-25 min and settle for the occasional blown circuit breaker when I crank my 40 amp and 30 amp chargers up to full blast.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2014, 04:48:03 PM »

Quote from: William DeMauro on February 11, 2014, 06:05:33 PM

There is a 40 amp charger available!!!! http://www.usastore.revolectrix.com/Products_2/Cellpro-PowerLab-8-EC5-version_2/Cellpro-PowerLab-8_797 . In fact it even comes in a dual version. I also believe that I-Charger also make a dual 40 amp charger. The problem we have in this country is that our electrical system runs on 110v and when you start running that kind of power you need amps so either you have to set up a 220v line in your house(expensive in most cases) or you need a charger that can run on 48 volts which I believe the DOU's can do. Now not only do you have the difficulty of finding a 48v Power Supply but you need one that puts out massive amps to run these things. For me, no problem, I will just construct a 48V repurposed server power supply , but even that will have some weight to it. At the moment I will stick with my 24v supply and settle for charging 12 batteries from storage mode in 20-25 min and settle for the occasional blown circuit breaker when I crank my 40 amp and 30 amp chargers up to full blast.

Now the mysterious reports of strange brown outs on the power grid in the NYC area can be explained ! Who would of thought that our very own brother William is responsible ! Only 12 batteries at a time !!!

And little ol me only does 4 at a time. Woe is me.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2014, 01:35:20 AM »

To clarify, six for me, six for Kevin.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:12:40 AM »

20-25 min from storage charge. Sounds like you are charging at about a 2C rate ? Yes, No ?

William DeMauro · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2014, 01:27:15 PM »

It's around 2C but keep in mind I have 6 batteries on each paraboard at a time. My batteries are 4s 3700 or 4s 4000 on the 40 amp charger. Kevin's batteries are 4s 2700's on the 30 amp charger.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2014, 03:50:22 PM »

Yeah, I gotcha ! Wonderful ! In 2011 my first year of electrical C/L, I used my little Cell Pro which maxed out at 4 amps. It took me almost 6 hrs to charge my six 4S2200 battery packs. What a pain. Now I do 7 batteries in less than 2 hrs.. I still got a way to go to catch up to you though.

40 amps is better than my paltry 30 amp i-Charger.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:28:57 PM »

My second charger is that paltry 30amp I-charger 306B and it does a great job charging Kevin's batteries. If you use a 24v Power Supply and max it out while parallel charging your batteries, it can do a pretty good job.

Russell Bond · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2014, 04:43:09 PM »

The other day I charged 8 batteries on my icharger 306b with 2 paraboards piggy-backed and it only took 40 minutes to charge from storage charge and that was only using a 12 volt server power supply and the charger did max out to the full 30 amps.
Maybe, because we are on 240 volts, things charge quicker.
If you use the 306 on 12 volts only will it still charge at 30 amps using 110 volts?

William DeMauro · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2014, 05:02:06 PM »

Russell, It is because you are on 240 but everything would run cooler if you used a 24v supply. I think I can hit around 20 amps on 110 but my wires do get very warm.

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2014, 05:13:34 PM »

The answer to why is there a need for a 70C discharge rate for a battery is helicopters. Not control line, not even fixed wing R/C, but the batteries we use 20 to 40 C will explode in a heli application. When they hit the throttle and the collective engages the load on the motor is serious, resulting in a surge of current that can only be handled by very high C rated batteries. I have yet to see an application for a 70C battery in control line, and as was mentioned before to get that C rating requires very heavy cells.
Andy