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Author Topic: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?  (Read 1346 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

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Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« on: March 31, 2019, 02:21:31 PM »
Guys,
Recently I noticed that one of my Zippy Compact packs got left in the box at full charge to long and puffed a little. The pack would take a full charge and full capacity. However, in the air although it had the capcity to do the full flight it was slower by 0.4 sec per lap. I think what happens is once they puff you lose underload voltage but not capacity. Anyone have any way to make a comeback from this besides a new pack?

Best,   DennisT

Offline Curare

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2019, 06:14:34 PM »
Dennis, what timer are you using?

I've found Zippy compacts do tend to weaken in capacity and power, which I suspect is from having the internal resistance in the cells steadily climb till they're no longer able to deliver the punch you need, or the time you need, or both.

A change in speed is less noticeable on a governor timer like a KR, but you do find you'll get early shutdowns as the pack weakens.
Greg Kowalski
AUS 36694

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2019, 09:28:44 PM »
I use a Zeton timer and run the ESP at fixed RPM mode, ESP is a Castle 35. Had the same results with ProLite packs too. Packs are 4S-2450 Zippy and 2200 Pro. Normal draw-down is 1780 ish. Found the same thing in larger 3750 packs.

Best,  DennisT

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 12:14:10 AM »
1/ The simplest, quickest and probably the only possible is to buy new battery. You can see problem also if you measure internal battery resistance, if your charged allows it. Compare values with healthy battery and all will be clear.

2/ You can check what is the problem if you read voltage during flight from ESC, you will see if problem is really extraordinary low voltage, because:

3/ It could be that you use too low number of cells for your motor and prop. It needs some voltage reserve to allow proper working of governor. It can work well with new healty battery and it can fail if battery is older just by little voltage drop. If you have enough headroom it will work well also with older battery. So may be you can tell us KV of your motor and prop which you use. It will be clear if this is the case. If the voltage is "on edge" it can also cause nice level lap times, but will not pull well overhead, becayse governor cannot add power for climbing.

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2019, 02:24:47 PM »
Just to clarify, this setup has run for several years. The motor is a 1000kv, set to run at 9700 rpm in the ESP, timer is set for 100% output is used only to time the flight. The only difference is that one pack is puffed the other is not. I have noticed this same fall off with the Thunder Power Pro lite 4S 2200 pack used in the same ship. Seems once they puff they are done.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 06:09:51 AM »
What I would like to get a handle on is how can we check the health of a pack as we use them? What can we easily measure and how to do it? Also, how can we store cells between flying secessions to minimize buildup of internal resistance and/or puffing?

Thanks,    DennisT 

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2019, 11:01:24 AM »
What I would like to get a handle on is how can we check the health of a pack as we use them? What can we easily measure and how to do it? Also, how can we store cells between flying secessions to minimize buildup of internal resistance and/or puffing?

Thanks,    DennisT
This is a question that I would like to "piggyback" on.  Keeping batteries for 3 ships healthy is rapidly becoming a full time job for me.  My biggest problem is when I have 6-8 batteries charged and we don't fly.  I have no idea why but a flown battery will fully recharge in about 30min but it will take an hour to be put into "storage".  A fully charged battery can take hours to be "stored".  There has to be a better way.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2019, 02:12:01 PM »
This is a question that I would like to "piggyback" on.  Keeping batteries for 3 ships healthy is rapidly becoming a full time job for me.  My biggest problem is when I have 6-8 batteries charged and we don't fly.  I have no idea why but a flown battery will fully recharge in about 30min but it will take an hour to be put into "storage".  A fully charged battery can take hours to be "stored".  There has to be a better way.

Ken

That's because you are charging a 'flown' battery at, eg: 100 watts - 3 or 4 amps x 4 cells,  to about 1/2 charge.  Most chargers will only discharge a fully charged battery, to "Storage" voltage, at about 1/10th their charge capabilities - in the example, 10 watts or maybe .3 or .4 amps, from 100% down to 50%.  They don't have the power handling capability in "Discharge" mode as in "Charge" mode.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Online Fred Underwood

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Re: Puffed battery pack - loss of underload voltage?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2019, 05:30:18 PM »
A fully charged battery can take hours to be "stored".  There has to be a better way.

Ken

Some ideas on how to discharge batteries here
https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/battery-discharger/msg462001/?topicseen#msg462001
Fred
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