Author Topic: Knights of the Round Circle electric trainer, the ET-1 (Read 22183 times)

jim gilmore · « **Reply #50 on:** November 09, 2012, 03:06:24 AM »

is the model all coroplast or are there some hard points. like foe the belcrank mount or landing gear. also wondering what you use to cover open edges after cutting the shape out ??

John Cralley · « **Reply #51 on:** November 09, 2012, 07:04:30 AM »

I had really slim pickings for political signs!!! Illinois was not a swing state and what political signs were out there were almost ALL local consisting of a wire frame and flimsy plastic sack stretched over it. I did score one Obama 2012 sign that was real Coroplast but all the Romney signs were the flimsy kind. What amazed me was how fast the signs all disappeared. I think the city swooped any that were on public land and the homeowners pulled theirs too.

Back to the drawing board on getting Coroplast -- may hit a few sign shops to see what they will part with.

UPDATE: I broke down and ordered some Coroplast from a sign supplier:

http://www.beacongraphics.com/bgllc/amazing/items.asp?cc=coroplst

They have the white for .99 each (18 x 24) but the rub is you have to order a minimum of 10 and the shipping (to Central IL) was $15. Anyway I have ten sheets on the way coming out to about $2.50 each (a local sign maker wanted $3.00). Considering you can make a trainer out of each sheet that is not too bad. Yes, I know the political signs are free -- if you can get them.

Beacon Graphics has some nice colors for $1.29 each but I went with the cheap white (I have a whole bunch of rattle cans sitting around and fuel proofing is NO problem. LOL).

Larry Renger · « **Reply #52 on:** November 09, 2012, 10:09:51 AM »

I suspect that they could loop and do eights on somewhat longer lines at full power. Also, a smaller, lighter battery could be used.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #53 on:** December 11, 2012, 05:06:17 PM »

Could someone post a picture of the bottom of one of these critters? I'm working on three (one for me, one for each of my two nephews), and would like to see landing gear detail.

Tnx

Larry Renger · « **Reply #54 on:** December 11, 2012, 11:47:31 PM »

Already posted in the electric forum section.

BTW, RSM can provide laser cut coroplast and plywood parts as a "short" kit. $20 + shipping. I think he may also have the power system available (motor, battery, esc, but less the radio link).

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #55 on:** March 08, 2013, 10:28:09 AM »

One goes up in Hawaii -- three flights, three crashes, the only reason they stopped was because the motor fell off.

My nephew is still enthusiastic -- that's cool. I'm trying to coach my brother in law on getting it fixed.

By brother in law did mention that he thinks he was giving too much throttle too fast for the kid; if they get it up again he'll do better, I expect.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #56 on:** June 18, 2013, 02:33:07 PM »

Larry or anyone with good info on this trainer

I need to build one of these ET-1's before the end of July for what we are going to call "free C/L lessons" at the local Airfair. We tried other things and I think this will work well, as it has for others. If we can get them on a handle with some success before they leave and we never see them again, we might get a couple to get involved.

I've built one out of foam for my nephew and have the plans. My question is concerning the electronics. I have a Spectrum 2.4 Tx and Rx that I can use. I don't fully understand the other parts. I think I'll need a 12-15A ESC, and 500-100mAh 3s 20c battery. I should be able to look up the spec and pick any cheap brand, as I don't want to spend a ton on this. The motor I have more trouble with, can't seem to find the one mentioned in this thread. I have a Hobby King outlet close and thought of getting the stuff there. Any idea of what to order through Hobby King? Or any other bits of info that would help this project be a success with the kids at the Airfair?

Thanks for the help!

John Cralley · « **Reply #57 on:** June 18, 2013, 02:47:08 PM »

This seems to be the motor:

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/2208-15-brushless-motor-w-hardware.html

Larry Renger · « **Reply #58 on:** June 19, 2013, 08:54:34 AM »

Purposely, hardly at all. They are rock solid flying high or low even in nasty, gusty conditions. That is what they are for.

Having said that, i am sure the configuration could be made to stunt well if built light, airfoiled wing, larger elevator with more throw.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #59 on:** June 19, 2013, 10:06:00 AM »

Duke:

The important thing is to get a motor with about the same Kv, and to make sure that it's got a shaft sticking out that you can put a prop adapter on. I got some $5 or $10 motors from Hobby King for my nephews' planes that were very difficult to move the shafts on -- those would be great motors for a project where you could use their built-in prop savers, but they were not right for this design.

I built the planes for about $70 each in parts, including the radio, a charger, and a spare battery for each plane. If you already have radio and charger the price goes down by about $35. Just about everything came from Hobby King; they have some incredibly low priced stuff.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #60 on:** June 19, 2013, 10:57:41 AM »

Hey Tim
So, if I get the Hobbyking FC-28-22 motor, Hobbyking SS series 15-18A ESC, Turnigy 1000mah 3S 20C lipo pack, and a 10x5 prop?

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #61 on:** June 19, 2013, 11:04:21 AM »

Well I looked at the drawings and it doesn't look like a 10" prop would fit, it just what the motor called for. About a 7" looks like it would fit?

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #62 on:** June 19, 2013, 11:27:48 AM »

Quote from: Duke.Johnson on June 19, 2013, 10:57:41 AM

Hey Tim
So, if I get the Hobbyking FC-28-22 motor, Hobbyking SS series 15-18A ESC, Turnigy 1000mah 3S 20C lipo pack, and a 10x5 prop?

It looks like the FC 28-22 isn't available in the US. The FC 28-12 should work fine, and will help with balance (I used about that size on mine). I ended up with 800mAh or 500mAh packs, which worked OK but had to be shoved way up to the front of the airplane.

The other parts you call out should be OK.

Larry had some specific APC prop to recommend, and I can't remember what it was!! But it was 7", which is what this motor calls out. You'll get plenty of power.

You really want to use one of the gray APC props -- I tried some of the yellow plastic GWS ones, they tended to flex so much they bit into the wing and knocked the motor off the airframe. This would happen in the air with maneuvering -- things would be fine on the ground, but in the air at high speed I'd to a quick turn, and BUZZ-CRUNCH-flutter-flutter need to do some repairs. Watching prop to wing clearance would probably be wise.

Keep in mind that if you're used to stunt or sport flying the airplane is a slug as far as maneuvering -- you really have to horse it up to get above 30 degrees or so, and a simple half loop to flip it on it's back is a scary experience. But for its intended purpose that lack of maneuverability is perfect; it keeps the kids out of trouble.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #63 on:** June 19, 2013, 01:51:00 PM »

Sounds great Tim. I'll order today, is there a way to make sure the order comes from the USA and to the warehouse in Lakewood so I can pick it up. I ordered something once and it really came on the slow boat from China, 4-5weeks.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #64 on:** July 10, 2013, 11:45:16 AM »

Larry
I have my trainer all glued together and the electronics show up tonight. I just don't see the bellcrank, landing gear, and electronics location on the drawings. Do you have another drawing showing this or have the locations in your head?
Thanks
Duke

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #65 on:** July 10, 2013, 02:15:48 PM »

Anybody?

Larry Renger · « **Reply #66 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:13:27 PM »

As set up for training they can fly high or low, level. That is what they were designed for.

Having said that, if built light out of balsa and with a more aft CG and more control power, there is no reason they couldn't be very maneuverable.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #67 on:** July 10, 2013, 03:17:04 PM »

Answer to Duke:

There are photos early in this thread that should answer your questions.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #68 on:** July 13, 2013, 08:49:29 AM »

The drawings I have show the control system, bell crank, leadout guide. If I knew how to scan the page I would do it. Have you looked back at the early posts of this design?

Found it.

Go to post/thread, Qustions for Larry on the ET-1, Reply #3 on December 11, 2012, 05:20:27 PM. Click on the line: ET1 Landing gear. Show almost all that you need.

To narrow it down further it is on page 5 of this section. Guess if I wasn't so lazy I would click on it and bump it to the top.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #69 on:** July 15, 2013, 10:49:39 PM »

Well the ET-1 is flying!!!!!!

Thanks Larry for all your hard work and putting up with all my question, everyone. I need to install landing gear and it's complete. We hand launched over grass in the field tonight and even got my wife to fly it pretty well. We had to get it airborne first, but she took it after that. Only took one CG adjustment and one line rack adjustment.

I can't wait to get the kids at the air fair on it.

Thanks again all!

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #70 on:** July 16, 2013, 12:25:15 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on July 13, 2013, 08:49:29 AM

The drawings I have show the control system, bell crank, leadout guide. If I knew how to scan the page I would do it. Have you looked back at the early posts of this design?

Found it. Go to post/thread, Qustions for Larry on the ET-1, Reply #3 on December 11, 2012, 05:20:27 PM. Click on the line: ET1 Landing gear. Show almost all that you need.

To narrow it down further it is on page 5 of this section. Guess if I wasn't so lazy I would click on it and bump it to the top.

Somewhere in here: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=29456.0

Larry Renger · « **Reply #71 on:** July 16, 2013, 08:52:28 AM »

Congratulations!

Could you please post some photos, especially beginners flying the plane?

What did you end up using for the power and control system?

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #72 on:** July 16, 2013, 11:21:08 AM »

I try and get the boy to take pictures that day. I used parts from Hobbyking to power it, mostly.

E-max 1500KV motor
15A hobbyking esc
1000mAh 3s 20c batt.
E-flight timer.

I might put it on the Rx later, but the $8 timer I had runs for 1-3 minutes. One minute gave us 11-12 laps before the warning cut out and then one lap before the motor started slowing bringing it down for a easy landing. I think with landing gear it will take off, fly, and land just by holding neutral with your hand chest high. Very easy to fly, my son gave it full up and it just start a easy slow climb. If we can get the electric to make gasser sounds, I could convert to the dark side. On mess, push button starts ( every time ), no clean up. We had a great time testing last night. No stunting, just thinking the kids are going to love this.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #73 on:** July 25, 2013, 09:31:13 AM »

Wow! over 4000 hits on this thread! How many people have actually built and flown an ET-1? I only know of 4 other than the 4 my club owns. Don't forget, you can get the laser cut short kit from rsmdistribution.com . Eric doesn't list it on his site, but he does have them.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #74 on:** July 25, 2013, 11:33:42 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on July 25, 2013, 09:31:13 AM

Wow! over 4000 hits on this thread! How many people have actually built and flown an ET-1? I only know of 4 other than the 4 my club owns. Don't forget, you can get the laser cut short kit from rsmdistribution.com . Eric doesn't list it on his site, but he does have them.

Larry
I have built the one I've been asking questions about. And we are going to put kids up on it at the air fair Saturday. The only thing I have found great info on is gluing the coroplast together. So many people with so many ways to glue it. I did the sanding and acetone then CA method. Seems to take the abuse. My wife even stuck the nose two inches in the dirt (hard dirt) and all was well.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #75 on:** July 28, 2013, 06:23:07 PM »

Ok, here's how the ET-1 lessons went. I put about 20 kids up on the ET-1 and the plane survived pretty well. It took a couple hard hits into the concrete, and only broke two props. Thanks to all who helped make this work, this was by far the best Air Fair we have put on. The ET-1 was said to be the reason for the success. I'd like to give a special thanks to Claudio Chacon for designing the certificates I handed out. And for a couple pictures. The one is of my two year old nephew's first CL lesson. He loves Uncle Duke's airplanes. I'm a shoe win for Uncle of the year!!!!!!!!!!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #76 on:** July 28, 2013, 09:31:05 PM »

Thanks! Those smiles tell it all.

So glad the plane survived, it is what I designed it to do, but it is really gratifying to hear that it actually worked out!

OK, why doesn't every flying group have one of these or the various alternatives at the field every flying session? Surely there are some kids around?

IMHO, it would be worth pausing a contest to give a kid a quick flight. YOO HOO, there has ALWAYS been a beginner problem. I have magazines from the '50s lamenting the lack of junior flyers.

Granddad, you got something BETTER to do?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #77 on:** July 29, 2013, 08:55:22 AM »

I need to get the two built I have, but I am going to have to go with a Babe Bee .049 which I have several of.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #78 on:** July 29, 2013, 01:23:10 PM »

I'm going to built at least two more, one more electric and another with a Cox. I just want to find a great way to glue it up. The open end flutes and the weak glue joints. Say the Stab to the tail boom. Though I would cut the flutes and insert a piece of balsa then glue it to the tail boom.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #79 on:** July 29, 2013, 04:50:52 PM »

On the current laser cut parts, the horizontal tail fits into slots in the tailbooms.

All my models were just slap-dash glued together with a hot glue gun. No prep required. The only places where epoxy was used is on the rear gear bindings over the pivot tubes, and to assemble the motor mount (which was then glued to the model with hot-melt.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #80 on:** August 02, 2013, 08:51:58 PM »

We will be doing training at the Compton, CA EAA airshow. I'll post more details as I have them.

Come, have a nice aero day,and try out our trainer. We even let skilled flyers try it as it is pretty bulletproof!

The date is Sept. 14th. I think the gates open at 8:00, but I'm not sure of that. More as I find out.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #81 on:** September 01, 2013, 11:20:08 PM »

Here's the coroplast Beginner Ringmaster I just finished tonight. I used Larry's ideas from the ET-1 that I built to train the kids at the airfair. This one will be for my wife and daughter to fly tomorrow and to train with at the Ringmaster Flyathon.

John Cralley · « **Reply #82 on:** September 02, 2013, 05:33:42 AM »

Duke, That is a great idea. I'm always happy to see a new variation of the Ringmaster and I hope it is a good flier too!!

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #83 on:** September 02, 2013, 07:45:28 AM »

Thanks John. I seems to fly very well. My son and I hand launched it three times last night, but it was getting dark and hard to see. We are taking it to Portland for a fun fly today. I put landing gear on it after we flew it for my wife and daughter to practice with.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #84 on:** September 02, 2013, 08:04:34 AM »

Way cool.

I have plans to do exactly that myself, but flying clockwise to learn to fly speed. (Left handed so I don't screw up my stunt flying coordination).

Could you please post some detail shots of the motor mount and landing gear?

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #85 on:** September 03, 2013, 08:22:07 AM »

Sure, but I just stole your design from the ET-1. Actually, I tore them off the ET-1

. The ET-1 was a little rough after the twenty or so kids I put up on it and was going to build another with the tail mods. So I took the motor mount and glued it on the side of the fuse. And for the landing gear, I cut a small notch in the fuse under the wing and glued it on wing mount like the ET-1. I'll try to take better pictures tonight. It flew great off the circle yesterday with the landing gear in place.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #86 on:** September 04, 2013, 07:53:00 PM »

Larry- Here's the pictures you wanted. As you can see straight off the ET-1, I'm just a dumb plumber stealing ideas from everyone. Thanks for the ideas.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #87 on:** September 14, 2013, 07:53:07 PM »

It is a TRAINER! It goes around and around. It is heavy and has no airfoil. It is intended to be unresponsive to excessive inputs. It don't do nuttin' but go round and round, and we love it for that. It was intended to take a horrendous beating and still keep flying. IT DOES. We still fly the four original prototypes.

The previous "champeen" in this arena was the Pt-19. We can get over twice the number of kids trained in a day with the ET-1 than we did with the gas powered model. Usually, we only need one model for the full day's training. Today, at the EAA 96 fly-in, we trained 25 kids before the wind came up and put a halt to our training.

How many beginners have YOU trained? We are pushing 400!

However, Andy Borgogna is building a full stunt .40 size version based on the "Naughty Girl" wing. It should be fully competitive when we get it tuned in.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #88 on:** September 17, 2013, 09:38:46 AM »

The design is continuing to work well; last weekend, we trained about 30 kids at the EAA chapter 96 Expo. There were NO crashes. Mind you, a couple of kids tried real hard, but I was fortunately quicker and stronger than they were.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #89 on:** October 05, 2013, 09:08:41 PM »

Andy Borgogna is building an EP-1 electric pusher stunter of similar configuration. It is based on the Naughty Girl wing planform and "numbers". It should be a fully competitive .40/.46 size stunter when done, and all his own design handiwork!

Grasshopper has learned well!