Self explanitory Novice electric Question here :

Ive read many reports of good success with people running electrics. I know of one notable who is trying to be the 1st person to win a Nats with an electric. To add to the " 1st person to win nats with tuned pipe " title he already has.


My only experience is what ive seen in Video footage and Mike Palko's Electric work a few years ago.

Id be interested to know what the advantages are running the Electric Vs IC Setups. Where are the gains in the pattern and performace parameters?  - Weight saving doesnt seem to be a factor either.

Consistant engine runs are easy to acheive with an IC engine - So I wouldnt put that at the top of my list, and there are certainly top level guys like walker and hunt whom achieve consistant engine runs time after time. Quietness is certainly one I can see.

Obviously Im yet to see one of these top level compeditors use the Electric system but there must be something there for so many to be converted. - Consistant engine runs are a factor certainly but is that it??

You can measure everything.  You can control the motor regulation way better.  You can have any run characteristic you want.  Engine run compensation is possible beyond what anybody (except maybe Igor) has imagined so far.  Multimotor models are trivial compared with glow engines.  You don't have to scrounge up fuel ingredients.

The constant-CG property enables you to practice maneuvers in any order.  You can do a whole flight of overhead 8s, for example, glancing at your watch occasionally to see when the motor is about to quit.

Battery weights are a little heavy now, but so many other things use this technology that weight and cost will go nowhere but down in the future.  

Although I don't like electrics aesthetically, the only really bad thing about them is environmental: they burn coal, and do so very inefficiently.

Hi PJ,
There are so many threads from Bob Hunt, Paul Walker, Dennis Adamisin etc.etc. that list the advantages, but the best way is to give it a go yourself. You are an experimenter of note from what I can see from the stuff you've posted. When you make multi-engined models for example, only your vast experience makes something like that practical. Good engine runs with 4-engines is a real test of how to get all the engines in sync and keep them running for the while flight. With e-power this is a lot easier to get right. I had loads of flak locally about using the real "stinky power"........diesels. All the comments about needing half an hour to warm them up, inconsistent needle settings etc., were all silenced when I always fired my engines up from cold in a couple of flicks. This took loads of practice and experience. I fly a lot simpler and cleaner now with e-power....ask my wife!

I have totally forgotten about allowing for changing weather conditions in competitions. Sure, if the wind speed changes drastically, I can simply change the rpm setting on the governor, but that's it. We all know that a good engine run is around 80% of flying a good pattern, and this is always at the back of our mind. With e-power you can literally switch on and concentrate on just flying the pattern. With a wet setup, especially glow, a setting that is slightly lean or rich has a drastic outcome. The diesel was more forgiving, but a little lean will cause a serious over-run.

The HUGE advantage for me, is being able to fly on local sports field close to home. The second BIG thing is the lack of gunk anywhere in or on the model, and this of course help in using less fuel-proofing stuff as well. Dennis T mentioned the battery weight can be placed near to the CG thus reducing the barbell effect, and no shift in CG as the fuel runs down. This is a really big advantage and is often under-played.

How many times have you wished  that you could get some data about the engine performance in the air?? You need an in-flight dyno or something! With e-power this is easy. You can get plug-in data recorders or some like the Castle Creations Ice series, have a built-in data recorder function. Here is the real crunch. There are NO engines around that can be controlled easily for solid power and control like the electric motors that are in use at this time! Sure, you could use electronic feedback control on a wet setup if the rules allowed this, but it is still a cumbersome system and you're still stuck with the goo, and noise.

On the noise issue, I still enjoy the sound of a big growling engine, like the ST 60 in Richie Kornmeijer's world champs winning model. The word "Grunt" on the nose of Dave Fitzgerald's Thundergazer says it all. The PA .75 sound is awesome. Nobody can deny the sound of a big bore V-8 thundering down the road, or track. The old sound of the 2/4 break engines is something that many of us have grown up with, and it is music to our ears, but times have changed, and most neighbours don't enjoy our "music" these days. On a performance level, Paul Walker said it all when he said that he has flown all of the good stunt power systems, and e-power is as good or better than any engine setup.


Right now it is a little cheaper to fly electric than glow. In another year, or even less, from what I see in battery development, it will be a lot cheaper. One of the standard arguments aboiut getting into electric stunt, is the complexity and expense. I developed my governor timer system to get people going in electric without having to mortgage their homes. (There is a thread about this below) You also don't need any PC's or complex programming devices to use it. I designed it especially for those that are more familiar with engines and not computers and high-tech gadgets. Folks that just want to switch on and fly can use this even simpler than with engines. (did I mention cleaner??) You definitely need a governor system to fly half-decent stunt if you're an experienced stunt pilot. Without this, the models fly like having a really bad "non-stunt" glow engine up front. My stunt system with the E-Max/Arrowind motors and Hobbywing esc's, costs about the same here in Darkest Africa as an OS LA .46, and there is absolutely no comparison in performance. The motor with the solid constant rpm is such a pleasure to fly, even for beginners. If you need testimonials this is no problemo. One particular good friend of mine that lives close to sea level, comes up to our Nats every year which is held in Johannesburg and the altitude here is 6000 ft ASL. He enjoys the .40 size models, and has tried all of the light weight sport stunt motors from the old FP's to the Brodak .40. They work reasonably well down at the coast, but up here, he always flies one or two rounds where the engine run is just not up to scratch. Since last year he has one of my .40 size systems. Just by the way, it was cheaper than a Brodak .40. He now goes out to practice and every flight is the same, and he is able to practice flying and not engine setting. Next month he will be here again for the Nats and I'm looking forward to seeing him have a much more enjoyable Nats than before.

So PJ, there are indeed many advantages in e-power, but as I said up front, just fly a couple of e-stunt models yourself, or even better.....build one! Good luck!

Keith R

You mention Hunt and Walker getting great engine each time.  They both fly electrics now.  Other things I like about electric is no more flipping a prop,
no glow plugs to burn out, no starter battery that didn't get charged the night before and no more having to figure amount of fuel
as I change altitudes for each contest.
But what sticks in my mind is lack of things to carry to the field and clean up.
I take the plane out of the car, hook up the lines and fly.  When done, I wind up the lines, put the plane away
and drive off.  No clean up needed!

Electric Power Advantages:

1.  Easy set-up and flying at the field.

2.  Constant repeatable run speeds, for critiquing flight and prop change, ect. Lets you concentrate of flight , and not get distracted by motor run glitches.

3.  No under or over runs - automatic shut down, with 5 second warning.

4.  Easy start - press button

5.  Safer start - no contact with prop

6. Quiet flight - sound levels and frequencies not irritating as some wet systems are. Possible necessity of the future to save flying fields or create new ones

7. Minimal airframe vibration - increases airframe life

8. No oil on airplane - no oil penetration into airframe, easier cleanup.

9. No oil or fuel accidents while bringing plane into house - your happy because wife is happy which makes you happy.  Well lets just say, we're all benefiting.

10. Environmentally sound.  No impact whatever if you use solar power to power up charging system.( it's been done - eliminates coal grid argument)

11. Good outrunner motors will last a long, long time , into obsolescence because of technology improvement

12.  High quality batteries give you 200 to 400 flights, if properly sized with aircraft and if charged correctly, possible argument for being less expensive then wet fuel

13.  Can actually talk to your coach who is advising you outside the circle, while flying.

14   With quiet run, gives impression of very smooth flight, which gives judges same impression.

15  Level lap speeds tend usually to be faster then wet systems, but maneuvers give impression of being slower then wet systems, works well usually with judges.

16 Less paraphernalia to bring to field.  starters, glow plug ignitors , tachs, different fuels, nitro , or additives due to weather changes, cleaners, towels, prop sticks,
     fuel pump systems, extra fuel tubing, extra fuel filters, various glow plugs, ect

17  Center of gravity never changes, because spent electrons weigh very little, compared to spent glow fuel - you get constant aircraft response per handle
      movement in all maneuvers; never changes . Flies the same from beginning to end.

18  You can trim the airplane in far less time by setting sequencer/timer for 1 or 2 minute flights, make adjustment, fly again, repeat till relatively satisfied.
      So, accomplish trimming adjustments in a day what it may take a month to do with a wet system.

19. You're cleaner. You, (not I ), can wear those white chinos again. And if you insist on those white shoes, go for it.

Will Moore

White chinos ... Maybe we'll get Bob to drag out those old white shoes?

Why? Because we are modellers and love to innovate and build new and hopefully better stuff.

less philosophically ... I, like many of you, know that the cops only chased two kinds of kids: juvenile delinquents and model airplane flyers!
I like being able to fly instead of being chased away.

Regards,
 Dean P.

10. Environmentally sound.  No impact whatever if you use solar power to power up charging system.( it's been done - eliminates coal grid argument)

Baldardash.  If you buy a solar power system-- a civically nice thing to do-- you can get the best environmental benefit from it by keeping it at home, where it can be used optimally and continuously to feed electricity back to the grid.  The marginal environmental cost of the electricity to power your airplane is that of generating the energy it uses with the dirtiest coal plant feeding the grid divided by the product of all the efficencies of transmission, battery charging, and power delivery to your prop.   

Hey, PJ.
I'm coming to your State Champs at Easter, I'll have mine there....

BTW, my new plane is a little better than my Yatsenko.   

Baldardash.  If you buy a solar power system-- a civically nice thing to do-- you can get the best environmental benefit from it by keeping it at home, where it can be used optimally and continuously to feed electricity back to the grid.  The marginal environmental cost of the electricity to power your airplane is that of generating the energy it uses with the dirtiest coal plant feeding the grid divided by the product of all the efficencies of transmission, battery charging, and power delivery to your prop.   

No, that's not true.  You can actually use a solar panel similar to ones used on sailboats (ask me how I know)  hooked up to a deep cycle marine battery at the field
to keep your marine battery topped off as you use it to charge your Li-Po's .  We are doing it already.  It works.