Author Topic: Suggestions on the power for a P-Force (Read 1818 times)

Michael Duffy · « **on:** October 01, 2010, 06:40:42 PM »

I have a P-force ARF that I want to fit for Electric Power, before I finish building my P-Force kit. This ARF is to work out the bugs and really get a feel for electric before I invest in the kit. My question is that I am new to electric power so i don't know what will be a good power set-up?

I am wanting a set-up that will be reliable but still able to be competitive in profile events. I have done a lot of research and want to use the Will Hubbin Timers, and the Turnigy batteries because of their great price. It seems like a 40 size equivalent would be what i am looking for, most likely nothing bigger and maybe something a little smaller. I want a set up that is of good quality and not a drastic price.

So what would be a good set up? If you could tell me all the main components and where I can order them it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You very much.

Michael Duffy

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2010, 08:46:08 PM »

Michael,
WELCOME to the ECL part of the forum! Good to have you on board. One area that has helped a lot of us out: Start with the "List your Set-ups" thread. Take a look at the power systems folks have used with typical "40" sized birds and that should get you a feel for what you are lloking for. You should be able to find a few Primary Force ECL conversions listed.

Motor: Arrowind 2820 (from Brodak), Axi 2820, E=Flite Power 25 (Horizon), MaxxCimm HC3522, Quantum 2820 (Randy Smith), Scorpion 3020, or Turnigy SK35-42 Are all about the same size and fit the "40-45 siZe pretty well.

Battery: 4-Cell of 2500-2800 mah, like the arrowind (Brodak) 4Sx2800 pack. Horizon & THunderPower have excellent 4Sx2600 packs. THe new Turnigy "nano" packs are state of the art and VERY cost efective!

Charger/Balancer. The best buy PERFORMANCE & price is the HobbyCity Accucel 4, but the Accucell 6 (up to 6 cells) and the Accucell 8 (up to 8 cells) will give you room to grow.

ESC: Favorite choice is the Phoenix 35, 45 or the ICE 50 - the ICE also has a built in flight data logger that gives you great info on motor performance & power usage. The Shulze (not sure which model) has designed-for-ECL features and a great reputation - but they have not caught on in the same numbers.

Timer: the Wil Hubin timers are my favorite, you can get them pre-programmed, or for a bit more, you can get the timer and a programming box (do a search for the FM9 timer)

Hope I have not scared you away! Keep an eye on what folks post here in your thread as well as all the others, collectively we WILL get you airborne!

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2010, 09:22:42 PM »

Thank You very much for this information, this is practically everything I was looking for.
I am glad to have gone to the other side of Control Line. A few more questions, if you don't mind. What Kv rating should i have for the motor? and which one from the list you supplied is cheap yet strong and reliable? Will that one work with the Turnigy nano tech batteries? Will the Hubbin timer work with the ICE 50 ESC and motor set up?

Is there anything else i should know or take into consideration? Sorry if this is alot of questioning, since this is my first Electric I am sure there are more to come.

Thank You

Michael Duffy

William DeMauro · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:11:40 AM »

Mike,
As far as the KV goes, look for something around 900kv + or - 50 and you should be fine. I have allot of flights on Scorpions and really like them but they may be a bit more than you want to spend for a first plane. All of the motors Dennis suggested will work great. I will add one more to the list that I have been using on a Banshee that I have been pleasantly surprised with. It is an Infinate 3020-970 available here. http://www.okhobby.com/product.php?id_product=775. If you get a Castle Speed controller.(And I would) make sure you get the castle link so you can program it to Controline mode. Todd's models usually has the best prices on Castle Speed controls. http://www.toddsmodels.com/. Good used ones do come up quite frequently over on RC groups.com. http://www.rcgroups.com/aircraft-electric-power-systems-fs-w-285/. They go fast so if you see one you cant hesitate. I've gotten Phoenix 35 for as low as $35 and a Phoenix 45 as low as $40. The turnigy Nano's seem to be the way to go on the budget end, hyperions or thunderpower at the higher end. I am running an ICE LITE 50 in my SV 11 on a Hubin timer (FM-9). Hope this helps.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2010, 08:55:18 AM »

Thanks Will, have not seen that motor before. I also did not list ones where I could not find dimensional data.

Brushless motor power esentially comes down to a matter of commutator diameter and magnet length. Awhile back I started a spreadsheet to try to capture dimensions & kv of several motors. Some motors are classified based on ther commtator dia & magnet length (like AXI 2826) some motors are classified by their external dimensions (like Turnigy 35-42) and some use a mix ( like MaxCimm 3530). One nice thing about brushless motors is that they are built in "families" - making comparisons easy. My Pathfinder twin uses two Arrowind 2810's, the Pathfinder single uses an Arrowind 2820 - note both have the same total LENGTH of magnets!

Lots of published stuff out there but lots missing too. For example I do not have any Hackers, & Plettenbergs because I cannot find meaningful dimensional info on them. I THINK the Hacker that RSM has in their turn-key must be roughly the same as a Axi/Arrowind/Quantum 2826 or Turnigy 35-48, but that is only a guess.

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2010, 03:25:41 PM »

So i think this is the set up i will purchse:

Motor: Turnigy SK35-42

ESC: Phoenix ICE 50

Battery: Turnigy "Nano-Tech" 2650mah 4S 25~50C Lipo Pack

Timer: Will Hubbin FM9 Universal Timer.

Charger/Balencer: Accucell 8 cell charger.

Props: not sure but definitely a pusher electric prop.

What do you think? Is there anything i missed or might need to purchase? Any more suggestions will be great.

Thank You
Michael Duffy

William DeMauro · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2010, 05:47:40 PM »

Looks good to me. Make sure you get the 1000KV 35-42. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7125&Product_Name=TGY_AerodriveXp_25_SK_Series_35-42_1000Kv_/_605w. Before Dennis has a chance to throw one of his "Shameless Plugs" in I'll do it for him. Just get some 11x5.5 pusher props from him when he gets them, which should be any day now. I have a few reservations about the accucell 8 as they are made by the same people that make I-Maxx chargers and I and many others on RC groups had bad experiences with them. I wont touch anything related to I-Maxx. Of course I know that many others will chime in and say how great they are. You may get a good one. I'm now using an I-charger 206B which I love and allows me to charge my 4s 4000 hyperions in 15 minutes. Soon to be 9 minutes! These are available from EP- buddy http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1. If you email him first and ask him he will even calibrate it for you and he will send you a coupon code if you ask him too. His I-charger 106b is similar to what you were looking at if you want to stay in the same price range. You will need a power supply too if you don't have one already. Good luck with everything!!!

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2010, 06:17:10 PM »

I will order that motor and the rest of it. I am interested in the charger you are telling me about.
Will it cause any damage or shorter lifespan to the batteries i want to use? What do you mean by a power supply, can i use a regular wall plug?
What is the email so i can contact him?

Thank You very much,

Michael Duffy

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2010, 08:03:20 PM »

I also came across these two motors. They seem to have a little more power.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7074

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7393

My questions are: Are they suitable for what i need? and will they still do a pattern on the battery i already have listed? OR should i stick with the other motor?

Thank You
Michael Duffy

William DeMauro · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2010, 08:46:39 PM »

Stay with the other motor. One is a bit small. One a bit large.I am running an equivalent to the smaller one on an ARF Flight Streak my son is flying. "List your setup" thread is a great reference tool on here. The batteries you picked should be fine for doing a pattern. Keep your flight time to no more than about 5:30 at first. The 4s 3000 nanos would also be good. but they are not in stock.

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2010, 08:51:45 PM »

I looked at the info on the one i originally thought about getting but it says its a .25 IC equivalent. Is that a little small for what i need?

William DeMauro · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2010, 09:01:07 PM »

Quote from: Michael Duffy on October 03, 2010, 06:17:10 PM

I will order that motor and the rest of it. I am interested in the charger you are telling me about.
Will it cause any damage or shorter lifespan to the batteries i want to use? What do you mean by a power supply, can i use a regular wall plug?
What is the email so i can contact him?

Thank You very much,

Michael Duffy

E-mail is in his site. None of the chargers you are considering, including the accucell can be plugged directly into the wall. they need at least a decent 12v power supply or car battery to run them. I would suggest you do allot of reading up on lipos so you can treat the ones you buy properly. Some of the ones I am using can be fast charged, some cant. The nanos you are looking at can but you still need to be careful with them.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2010, 09:18:31 PM »

I don't have a primary force but, it should be close enough to my banshee in size and weight to use the same power system. My ARF Cardinal which is 10 ounces heavier than my banshee even uses that same size power system.I just have to use larger batteries. All those motors that Dennis and I suggested would work well. Its now a matter of what you want to spend and where you want to shop. If I'm buying from hobby city its getting a 35-42 1000. Same one you already picked.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2010, 09:59:43 PM »

One more suggestion. Do some reading and research here on RC Groups battery and charger section.http://www.rcgroups.com/batteries-and-chargers-129/. Use the search function to look up the different chargers. There is even a thread on the nano batteries. I'm sure you can find a good charger that will serve your purpose now and grow into later. Please remember I only knock the Accucel because of a bad experience that I had. You may get one and be perfectly happy with yours. Read up on FMA and Hyperion chargers too.

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #14 on:** October 04, 2010, 07:38:37 PM »

I have a question. Do all the chargers require a big outside power source like a car battery? Is there a good charger that i can buy that can use a wall plug?

Thank You
Michael Duffy

William DeMauro · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2010, 05:23:08 PM »

There are some like this one ( http://www.hobbypartz.com/skychb6chdup.html) that do plug in. I know 2 people that have that one and are happy with it. I have no personal experience with it. Most of the better ones, and definitely the more powerful ones, including the one you looked at do not plug directly into the wall. Most places that sell chargers also sell power supplies so that should not be too big of a deal for you. Remember the charger is the one part of your investment that stays with you from plane to plane, that's why I feel you need to buy it from someone who can back it up easily if there is a problem. Try to return one overseas and you can be down for a while. Even if you buy a "budget charger" from EPBuddy he backs them up. There are others that sell good stuff too.Maybe someone else has some other place to reccommend. Hope this helps.

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2010, 06:40:37 PM »

Thank you for the link, I am not sure about chargers. What is the power source for them? is it like a car battery? This is just whats got me a little confused,

Thank You
Michael Duffy

Will Hubin · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2010, 06:47:11 PM »

I'm using a Triton EQ charger from Tower Hobbies that includes both power sources: a 120V connection and clamps for using a 12V battery. They have balance connectors for the common LiPo batteries. They aren't cheap but it is very convenient not to have to buy two units: The TritonEQ provides up to 5A (enough to charge a 5000 mAh battery at 1C) @$130 and the Triton2 EQ provides up to 8A @ $200.

Michael Duffy · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2010, 07:03:40 PM »

Thank You will for the information i will take a look at that. I was sent this link to a battery charger that has been said to be really good.
Any comments, info, or past experiences with it?

http://www.hobbypartz.com/thac6smbachw.html

Thank You
Michael Duffy

PS: will i am needing to buy one of your timers, if you still have them in stock, can you send me a personal email about them and prices, I would very much appreciate that. Thank You
clstuntermichael@aol.com

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2010, 09:08:36 PM »

"I have a question. Do all the chargers require a big outside power source like a car battery? Is there a good charger that i can buy that can use a wall plug?"

Hi Mike,
In general, the better chargers all use 12V, and it is an easy thing to have a plug-in 12V supply at home, that can serve multiple chargers.
I like the Pyramid line, they are of good quality with a moderate (not super-cheap) price.
Try here ... http://www.google.com/search?q=pyramid+power+supplies&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Ycf&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=s&source=univ&tbs=shop:1&tbo=u&ei=CearTKyCO8ainQf0jZThDA&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CEUQrQQwAg
I am sure that others will chime in with cheaper sources.
Figure that a 5 Amp supply will let you charge a single 4S 4000 mA-H pack, so if you want multiples pick a bigger one.
The ones labeled as 13.8V can also double as lead-acid battery chargers.

Hope that helps,
Dean P.

Dave Evar · « **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2010, 11:15:08 AM »

Michael; Check your email for my message concerning Hubin timer.

Dave Evar