Author Topic: Jeti Spin 33 Pro on 6s Battery (Read 9722 times)

Ken Culbertson · « **on:** December 18, 2024, 01:34:36 PM »

I have outfitted my Endgame twin with BadAss 2320 motors that are rated up to a 6s battery. I am going to use a pair of Jeti Spin 33 ESC's which are rated to 5s. I have been told that this is the right ESC for my situation even though it is only rated for a max input of 21 volts. I use LI-Ion batteries and charge them on the LIPO setting so they are only about 98% charged. If I do use them should I expect them to run hot?

Ken

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2024, 02:34:20 PM »

Why would you run 6S on a 5S rated ESC? Doesn't make sense. Talk to Wes about what he uses on a 6S battery.

spare_parts · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2024, 02:36:03 PM »

Did Jeti tell you this is OK? Or someone who has been running them this way for some time? That idea assumes it can really handle 25V which is a common ESC limit. 25V/6cells=4.166V/cell. I found no references to 6S with this ESC online. You can expect them to straight up fail if a component's voltage limit is exceeded.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2024, 12:19:15 AM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on December 18, 2024, 02:34:20 PM

Why would you run 6S on a 5S rated ESC? Doesn't make sense. Talk to Wes about what he uses on a 6S battery.

It is a space and weight issue. The 2320 motors are rated to 6s. For some reason the Spin 33 is only rated to 21v. which is over 5s but just under 6s. (1.2v under 22.2). If I can't get 5.5min out of a 5s 2800 for the two motors, I would need to go to a 3000 which is 80-100 grams heavier. The plane will be pushing 70oz. I need to learn a bit more how an ESC works. I would suspect there is a buffer. If you use cell voltage my Li-Ion's consistently charge to 4.0 to 4.1 per cell. That means that I am at 24-25v which may be too much IF and that is a big if, we actually draw that much with our rather tame (by RC standards) rpm's. I guess I should start out with a nice fresh 5s 2800 and see what I have. I wish I had a better feel for how much more/less battery draw there is with a twin.

Ken

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2024, 12:21:07 AM »

Quote from: spare_parts on December 18, 2024, 02:36:03 PM

Did Jeti tell you this is OK? Or someone who has been running them this way for some time? That idea assumes it can really handle 25V which is a common ESC limit. 25V/6cells=4.166V/cell. I found no references to 6S with this ESC online. You can expect them to straight up fail if a component's voltage limit is exceeded.

No way Jetti would give you any other answer than NO. Their lawyers would shoot them.

Ken

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2024, 07:37:38 AM »

Have you talked to Wes?

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2024, 09:12:17 AM »

Not yet, I think we are flying today and that is on the top of my list.

Ken

spare_parts · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2024, 09:57:49 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on December 19, 2024, 12:21:07 AM

No way Jetti would give you any other answer than NO. Their lawyers would shoot them.

Did the source of this suggestion have first hand experience with running these at this voltage?

5S at 4.2V is 21V. Do not use nominal voltage for this calculation. 6S rated ESC typically list 25.2V max. These limits are not made up, but real limits of components incorporated into the design. Exceeding voltage limit = dead components, period. It's a fairly hard limit(there are tolerances) unlike a current limit which is more about heat dissipation.

The other issue is that if you don't charge to full voltage you certainly won't get full capacity out. To exceed useful watt-hours of a 5S fully charged with a 6S, it will have to be charged to over 83%. Considering the 6S will start at lower voltage it will actually have to be more. Looking at the cell spec sheet, you won't get that if you only charge to 4V.

Does anyone use drone ESC? They are typically quite small, but current ratings need to be taken with a grain of salt because they are usually installed right under props or at least in the open air. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CDGFX1QS/ I have a couple of these for an RC app but haven't even tested yet.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2024, 11:35:44 AM »

I am starting to think that I need to either replace the ESC's or have some 5s Li-Ion batteries made. The closest 5s LIPO I can find that would support 3000mah weighs 119 grams more than the 6s I used to design the plane. Is there an inexpensive (I need 2) ESC out there that can be easily programmed?

Guess it is back to the research desk for this one. I have stepped back from the edge.

Here are a couple of "cheap" choices. Anybody used either of them?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175810184612?var=475213550792

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395105583078?var=663687816239

Ken

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2024, 12:34:00 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on December 19, 2024, 11:35:44 AM

I am starting to think that I need to either replace the ESC's or have some 5s Li-Ion batteries made. The closest 5s LIPO I can find that would support 3000mah weighs 119 grams more than the 6s I used to design the plane. Is there an inexpensive (I need 2) ESC out there that can be easily programmed?

Guess it is back to the research desk for this one. I have stepped back from the edge.

Here are a couple of "cheap" choices. Anybody used either of them?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175810184612?var=475213550792

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395105583078?var=663687816239

Ken

Did you talk to Wes?

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2024, 01:06:29 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on December 19, 2024, 12:34:00 PM

Did you talk to Wes?

Yes, at length. The 5mph wind on the weather site was blowing about 15 so we talked more and flew less. He was not familiar with the Jeti but pretty much confirmed that the voltage would be a problem. I am looking right now for inexpensive ESC options OR 3000mah Li-Ion batteries to make some 5s packs from. I will test fly on a 2800 Lipo but I am pretty sure that the weight will pretty much suck it dry. If I can squeeze 5.5 minutes out of it I may just make, or have maid (hint) some 2800 5s packs which don't mind being squeezed dry quite as much or go with the larger 3000 or even 3200mah cells. Or something else, I am all ears. What I have concluded is that I am not going to risk two expensive Jeti ESC. What I don't like is losing 100 watts per motor of power between the 5 and 6s.

Ken

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2024, 03:36:04 PM »

OK, talk to Wes about what brand ESC's he's using. He's flying on 6S packs and they are inexpensive!

John Rist · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2024, 03:54:49 PM »

I have had good luck with the Turnigy Plush line of ESC You also need the program card that goes with it. I have run several with KR timers.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-plush-32-60a-2-6s-brushless-speed-controller-w-bec-rev1-1-0.html?wrh_pdp=2

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2024, 06:14:28 AM »

I just made 8 5s 2800 Li-ion Batteries. They weight the same as a Lipo 4s. Just one question the battery is 2.125 in high can your fuse handle that?
Later,
Darrell.

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #14 on:** December 25, 2024, 10:40:40 AM »

Ken

I have and do use the ZTW brand Esc's and they are a very good inexpensive esc.
I use their program card (easy peasy) ((BUT look at the voltage rating of the esc you want to use.)
NOTE: If you do decide to use the ZTW series esc's for 6s, you will need to purchase EITHER the ZTW Mantis G2 45A esc or 60A Beatles esc. The lesser amp esc's they have are rated for 2-4s packs. Check out thier web site. (ztwesc.com)

And yes, do not use the 6s battery on an esc designed for max 5s. You will let the magic smoke out and you
will be left with a couple small paper weights. (ask me how I know....)
Carl

p.s. the PLUSH line of esc's mentioned are also a good inexpensive choice and I have used those as well.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #15 on:** December 25, 2024, 11:03:58 AM »

Quote from: Carl Cisneros on December 25, 2024, 10:40:40 AM

Ken

I have and do use the ZTW brand Esc's and they are a very good inexpensive esc.
I use their program card (easy peasy) ((BUT look at the voltage rating of the esc you want to use.)
NOTE: If you do decide to use the ZTW series esc's for 6s, you will need to purchase EITHER the ZTW Mantis G2 45A esc or 60A Beatles esc. The lesser amp esc's they have are rated for 2-4s packs. Check out thier web site. (ztwesc.com)

And yes, do not use the 6s battery on an esc designed for max 5s. You will let the magic smoke out and you
will be left with a couple small paper weights. (ask me how I know....)
Carl

p.s. the PLUSH line of esc's mentioned are also a good inexpensive choice and I have used those as well.

I see the light. Even if the recommendation did come from a very respected not to be named source, I am going to bow to the masses and go with a 5s battery until the plane says it just has to have a 6. Then I will replace the ESC's, both of which have successfully run on a 6s but not for long. I hate smoke. Since I will probably have to have a new set of Li-Ion batteries made I will wait till it has been flown on the TP 2800mah batteries I have. I have been told that the battery draw on a twin with two smaller motors and the right props is no more, maybe even less that a larger single. I will believe that when I see it, but I trust the source. The TP 5s will be much heavier than the Li-Ion so I will wait till I know what I need before shaping the Li-Ion. A 5s Li-Ion is much lighter. perhaps the answer is to use 3000 or 3300 cells. Either a 3-2 or a 4-1 cell arrangement will fit the box and hatch as is. If I had known this before I finished the nose, I would have made it deeper to accommodate a cube shape. Talk about CG flexibility!

Ken

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #16 on:** December 25, 2024, 11:14:42 AM »

Quote from: Darkstar1 on December 20, 2024, 06:14:28 AM

I just made 8 5s 2800 Li-ion Batteries. They weight the same as a Lipo 4s. Just one question the battery is 2.125 in high can your fuse handle that?
Later,
Darrell.

Unfortunately not. Only two arrangements will fit. 4 cells in a cube with 1 cell trailing or three in a triangle with 2 trailing. All horizontal.

Ken

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 25, 2024, 06:52:55 PM »

I haven't tackled either Arrangement yet. Shame though the li-ion 5 cell weights as much as a lipo 2800 4s. Have you looked at the Castle talon 25'or 35s They are smaller and lighter than the cheap Chinese ESC's and can support a 6s Battery and are Cheaper than the Jeti's. I'm using the Talon 35 in a few models such as my Barnstormer and Stilleto at the Nats and got good results in OTS and N-30.

Later,
Darrell.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #18 on:** December 25, 2024, 07:31:09 PM »

Quote from: Darkstar1 on December 25, 2024, 06:52:55 PM

I haven't tackled either Arrangement yet. Shame though the li-ion 5 cell weights as much as a lipo 2800 4s. Have you looked at the Castle talon 25'or 35s They are smaller and lighter than the cheap Chinese ESC's and can support a 6s Battery and are Cheaper than the Jeti's. I'm using the Talon 35 in a few models such as my Barnstormer and Stilleto at the Nats and got good results in OTS and N-30.

Later,
Darrell.

I don't know why I didn't think of Castle. I flew the 50 Lite for years with the FM-9 timers. Time for a web site visit. What I don't like is the programming but you don't do that every day like the timer.

Ken

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #19 on:** December 25, 2024, 09:51:57 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on December 25, 2024, 07:31:09 PM

I don't know why I didn't think of Castle. I flew the 50 Lite for years with the FM-9 timers. Time for a web site visit. What I don't like is the programming but you don't do that every day like the timer.

Ken

https://vortexhobbies.com/castle-creations-castle-creations-talon-brushless-esc-cse010012200-p-87987.html

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #20 on:** December 25, 2024, 11:35:10 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on December 25, 2024, 09:51:57 PM

https://vortexhobbies.com/castle-creations-castle-creations-talon-brushless-esc-cse010012200-p-87987.html

The internal debate is centering on whether to spend $100 and change the esc's or have a set of 5s Li-Ions made. I have a bunch of 5s LIPO's that weigh the same as the 6s LI-Ions so I am going to fly it on the 5s and see what I have first. If I just need more battery but not more power, I can use 3000mah or 3500mah 18650 cells and have a pack still about 20g lighter than the Lipo 2800's I have. Problem is that the 20g lighter is all nose weight...ahhh.

Ken

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #21 on:** December 26, 2024, 06:08:23 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on December 25, 2024, 11:35:10 PM

The internal debate is centering on whether to spend $100 and change the esc's or have a set of 5s Li-Ions made. I have a bunch of 5s LIPO's that weigh the same as the 6s LI-Ions so I am going to fly it on the 5s and see what I have first. If I just need more battery but not more power, I can use 3000mah or 3500mah 18650 cells and have a pack still about 20g lighter than the Lipo 2800's I have. Problem is that the 20g lighter is all nose weight...ahhh.

Ken

Where do you find 3000mah or 3500mah 35A 18650 cells?

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #22 on:** December 26, 2024, 06:47:08 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on December 26, 2024, 06:08:23 PM

Where do you find 3000mah or 3500mah 35A 18650 cells?

Sorry 30A - https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/molicel-p30b-18650-3000mah-36a-battery

ken

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #23 on:** December 27, 2024, 08:52:34 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on December 26, 2024, 06:47:08 PM

Sorry 30A - https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/molicel-p30b-18650-3000mah-36a-battery

ken

I didn't see those! 30A might be good enough for your smaller application.

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2024, 02:26:46 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on December 27, 2024, 08:52:34 AM

I didn't see those! 30A might be good enough for your smaller application.

What is the 30A about? Graph shows 30A curve and one place mentions 30A, but another mentions 36A continuous. Is that the concern with mention of "smaller application"?