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Author Topic: Interesting discovery motor timing  (Read 2163 times)

Offline Robert Redmon

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Interesting discovery motor timing
« on: July 03, 2013, 11:15:09 AM »
I was tempted to put this in the esc settings thread, but most of the information there is related to the Castle Phoenix series of controllers.

I have been experimenting with various settings on the rather basic Turnigy Trust esc I am using in concert with a KR timer and Eflite 32. This week I discovered that changing from the default "auto" motor timing setting to the "medium" setting had two very positive effects: 1. power under load increased (acceleration from corners is noticeably better) and 2. lower power consumption 2100 mah in 10mph wind with the "auto" setting decreased to 1975mah in absolute calm (It has actually been calm in N Texas the past couple days.). Both the esc and the motor are cooler at the end of a flight with the new settings, suggesting that less power is lost to heat...and a better match between timing and the dynamics of the rest of the power train.

I am not sure that I understand what is going on here, but I suspect it may be the nature of the motor run resulting from the governor and the relatively low typical load upon the motor. Though my previous experience with motor timing contrasts with this finding, it is what it is. I have no idea how many degrees of advance the "auto" "medium" and "high" settings in the Turnigy Trust esc represent, but it is apparent that my setup doesn't like the "auto" setting as well as the "medium" setting. The "high" setting produced more or less predictable results: more heat and more energy consumption (2300 mah). Your mileage may vary.

Bob
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Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 11:39:19 AM »
Hi Bob,
Yes, it is best to be wary of any AUTO advance setting. The poor reputation this feature has across many brands is well earned.
It's great to hear that your maneuver load-transient behavior is improved.
This is where i think you'll reap the most benefit.

As a general note, investigating timing advance may be easier using a radio or servo controller and with the ESC (if applicable) not in governor mode.
Then the governor, whether in the timer or ESC, can be wrapped around the already optimized motor behavior.
it's a bear when you don't know whether the motor timing or the governor loop is the problem.

again, Bravo,
   Dean P.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2013, 11:57:45 AM »
Speaking as a design engineer, this is the sort of product feature that marketing people cheer over, product designers dread, and good customers avoid like the plague.

There are some "auto tune" controllers out there in the process control industries; they have a similar reputation (except that the smart money knows that you can auto-tune to get in the ballpark, then start tweaking the numbers from there).
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Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2013, 02:50:01 PM »
Hi Robert,I am flying a heavy Strega with a T.Trust 45A ESC,KR2, and a Rimfire 46 with 5s packs.Sometimes it needs a little boot in the rear.How do you get it to the medium setting and do you have to do it every flight?This is an 1850 watt motor and I think it will like the medium setting.Trax
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline Robert Redmon

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2013, 04:35:43 PM »
Jeff,

You can reset the timing in either of two ways: 1 (the way I do it) is to use the programming card Turnigy sells for the esc. It is very easy to use and you can set (or reset) any or all of the various adjustable parameters by simply plugging the card in as if it were the receiver (or timer) and powering it up. It uses jumpers and is very simple to set up and use. Method 2 is a pain in the neck and the reason I bought the programming card. Unless you already have one, you will have to borrow an RC tx and rx from someone and use the method explained in the instructions that came with the controller. I spent an entire morning sorting out the instructions and trying to make sense of the musical notations that comprise most of the manual. I did finally sort it out, but it wasn't my idea of fun. Once set, it will retain the new setting(s) until you change it (them). I think the programmer cost about 10 bucks and should be available from HobbyKing's USA warehouse.

Bob
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Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2013, 07:13:04 PM »
Thanx Bob,I need a couple goodies from HK so it's good timing.I hav'nt set the brake yet either.I plugged it in and it wiorks great but now maybe a little better.Hopefully I can get the stuff before the nats.Trax
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2013, 11:37:59 AM »
My programming card took the SLOW boat but now that it is here it was well worth the wait.Switching the timing to the medium setting sure made a different animal out of the ship.Robert,Thanx for sharing the info.It makes an inexpensive E system that performs well plug&play even better.


   If you are using A KR timer and Turnigy Trust ESC try this out,You'll be glad you did.
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline John Rist

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2013, 12:23:54 PM »
I will check my setup and see where it is set.  Thanks for the heads up.  PS do I want the brake function on or off.  Tanks for the heads up.

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Offline Robert Redmon

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2013, 01:31:45 PM »
Regarding the brake function....It seems that different folks need different strokes. I prefer the brake function on.

Bob
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Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Interesting discovery motor timing
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2013, 02:19:25 PM »
Brake on works for me too.A stopped propellor creats less drag than a freewheeling one.
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"


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