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Electric Stunt => Gettin all AMP'ed up! => Topic started by: Crist Rigotti on January 18, 2013, 11:48:26 PM
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I thought that I would try some indoor electric C/L. Igor's GeeBee caught my eye and after several emails and reviewing some threads on Stunt Hangar I decided to build one for myself. This build log won't go into to much detail seeing Igor already has one here:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19265.0
Here is Igor flying his. Way cool!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4wpKmLKFM
My GeeBee is built from the following:
I got the following from RCFoam:
3mm Depron foam. Each sheet measures 13.8 x 39.4 inches. I ordered 10 sheets which is enough to build 4 planes.
http://www.rcfoam.com/index.php?cPath=41&osCsid=a5cdf7e36ba1616d725c091ae3cceeb7
3mm x .5mm x 1000mm carbon fiber strip. 1 strip is all you need per plane.
http://www.rcfoam.com/product_info.php?cPath=96&products_id=699&osCsid=a5cdf7e36ba1616d725c091ae3cceeb7
2mm solid carbon fiber rod. This is for the pushrod and landing gear struts.
http://www.rcfoam.com/product_info.php?cPath=95&products_id=737&osCsid=a5cdf7e36ba1616d725c091ae3cceeb7
GWS 2" light weight wheels.
http://www.rcfoam.com/product_info.php?cPath=128&products_id=1196&osCsid=a5cdf7e36ba1616d725c091ae3cceeb7
Motor:
I got the motor from HeadsUpRC. CF2822 1300Kv Looks like they are out of stock! 1/24/2013
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the-1516/Emax-CF2822-1300kv-Outrunner/Detail
Another place to get the CF2822 motor: http://www.valuehobby.com/power-systems/brushless-motors/emax-cf2822-outrunner.html
Another motor that the Spainairds are using comes from Hobby King. A 2205C-1400 You can get it stateside.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26482__2205C_1400Kv_Brushless_motor_USA_Warehouse_.html
I got the batteries from Hobby King. They are 2S 850mah 25C Zippy Compact. Weight is 43g.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25519__ZIPPY_Compact_850mAh_2S_25C_Lipo_Pack_USA_Warehouse_.html
I changed the 20awg wire and JST connectors to 16awg and EC2 connectors. Much better. See post #29 1-25-2013
I'm going to use my Phoenix 25 ESC. I really should be using a Phoenix 10 which weighs 10 grams less. But I have the 25A ESC and would have to buy a Phoenix 10.
Igor says the HiModel Cool 11A ESC works well but the brake must be off when in governor mode:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiModel-COOL-Series-11A-Brushless-Speed-Controller-6A-LBEC-/130648047437?pt=US_Character_Radio_Control_Toys&hash=item1e6b3aff4d
or
http://www.himodel.com/electric/HiModel_COOL_Series_11A_Brushless_Speed_Controller_6A_LBEC.html
For a timer I'll either use a Hubin FM-9 or I have several JMP timers that I'm not using on any current planes.
GWS 10 x 4.7 Slo Fyler prop. Lots of places have these. I also have some APC 10 x 4.7 both tractor and pusher props to try.
The lines are 5 meters long and .014mm SpiderWire.
Launch RPM will be about 4500rpm
Target weight will be about 215g
Lap times should be about 4.9 to 5 seconds.
Tip weight is 12g
Downthrust is 4 degrees.
Enough of the specs let's get to it.
The Spanish published a .pdf of the GeeBee which I then traced using my CAD program. I then arranged the pieces to fit the 3mm foam. I printed out my plans ( which I've included here in this post with Igor's permission) and then cut out an airplane in about 3 hours. I cut up the plan of each piece a little larger and used an Elmer's glue stick to glue the plan to the foam. I used the glue sparingly and only in a few places to tack glue it down. Then I used my hobby knife with a #11 blade ( a new one please! You'll need several) to carefully cut out the foam. Let the blade do the cutting. When the blade starts to get dull, it will "pull" and tear the foam. After cutting out the foam, remove the plan and I used rubbing alcohol to clean off the glue. Another benfit to this is that it also preps the foam for painting.
Tomorrow I'll cut out the bellcrank, motor mount, and crank mount from 1/16 ply. Igor uses .6mm glass fiber board. For the control horn, I'll use DuBro Razor horns. I've use these on my RC planes and like them very much.
I did have to make a correction to the fuselage brace. It was 1 7/8 wide and it went right up to the edge of the fuselage crutch between the wing TE and the stab. So I made mine 1 1/2 wide.
I uploaded a set of the corrected drawings with a narrower fuselage brace, additional details, enlarged elevator cutout in the rudder, and relocated bell crank. These are what I built 1/21/2013
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WOW very impressive i have never seen anything like that before.
Thanks for sharing
Ron
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This should be big fun.
Crist is there any way you can post a copy of the plans in "tiled" form so we can print straight on 8.5x11 paper?
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This should be big fun.
Crist is there any way you can post a copy of the plans in "tiled" form so we can print straight on 8.5x11 paper?
I'll see what I can do.
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I'll see what I can do.
Maybe you can save it as TIF format.
Then you import it in EXCEL.
What EXCEL yes.
Whit EXCEL you can scale and...... tile.
Greetings robert-Jan
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Thanks for this Crist! Will follow your posts with interest!
Igor's plane looks like a lot of fun. I like Mike's idea.
A post with a tiled plan would make printing it out
easy for anyone who wants to give it a try.
Stan y1
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Tiled versions of the drawings have been created and included in the opening post. Everybody enjoy.
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COOL! Thanks Crist!
H^^
Stan
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Thanks Crist
Okay Stan the race is on.
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Today's progress.
I made up the bell crank assembly and the motor mount out of 1/16 plywood.
Then I did my color scheme and used a fine line Sharpie for panel lines and trim tabs.
I got as far as the landing gear and their braces glued in.
I did have to make a correction to the fuselage brace. It was 1 7/8 wide and it went right up to the edge of the fuselage crutch between the wing TE and the stab. So I made mine 1 1/2 wide. It fits very well now. I'll correct the drawings on Sunday.
In the picture, the fuse top and rudder are taped in place.
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hi all
Cant wait till march to go and fly these in Produbice
paul
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Well, it's done except for the electrics. The motor should be here Monday. Monday evening is for finishing it completely. The airframe is all done. It weighs 105 grams as it sits without tip weight. I think I'm gonna hit 235 grams. I don't know if that will be too heavy or not. WE'll see. Maybe Igor could add some comments.
I had to enlarge the elevator cut out in the rudder by about 1/8 inch. Everything else fit very well.
Enjoy the pics.
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I see new toy is born :-)))
Yes the weigh coud be aproximately OK, we have it also somewhere over 200g
Regarding your elevator - we do rudder as separate part, so it comes AFTER elevator, and it does not need any cutting
BTW did you use those large drillers? because those parts keeping wing seem to be without tension .. but may be it is not well visible on the picture
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hi all
Cant wait till march to go and fly these in Produbice
paul
Do not worry paul, you model is ordered, simply come and fly, but it will be helpfull if you bring handle for your hand, because everyone needs something else. The best so far we found is simply cut from plywood 3mm. Anatomic handles for outside are not optimal.
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Well, it's done except for the electrics. The motor should be here Monday. Monday evening is for finishing it completely. The airframe is all done. It weighs 105 grams as it sits without tip weight. I think I'm gonna hit 235 grams. I don't know if that will be too heavy or not. WE'll see. Maybe Igor could add some comments.
I had to enlarge the elevator cut out in the rudder by about 1/8 inch. Everything else fit very well.
Enjoy the pics.
I do : )))
Greetings Crist ; )) lovely work I like it : )
I also building my gee bee at home and preparing for the contest in Pardubice Czech republic : )) I hope that year many people to come : ) it's III international contest with date 09-10 March : )
Here anyone of you can find more information about it : )
http://pavel.macek.hk/CL_Calendar/2013/Bulletin/CZE-361.pdf
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I see new toy is born :-)))
Yes the weigh coud be aproximately OK, we have it also somewhere over 200g
Regarding your elevator - we do rudder as separate part, so it comes AFTER elevator, and it does not need any cutting
BTW did you use those large drillers? because those parts keeping wing seem to be without tension .. but may be it is not well visible on the picture
Thank you Igor.
I put the rudder on after the elevator was hinged.
I don't understand what you mean by the "drillers". I used 3mm x .5mm cf spar, and the 2mm solid cf rod for the pushrod and LG. No other cf was used. Everything else was either 3mm Depron or 1/16 plywood.
Yes, another baby to add to the family!
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If you look closer to my pictures from buildig (on that another thread) you will see that I have large metal drillers on fuselage. It is only weight which make tesion on langing gears parts which are already constructed under wing and only then I glue those tvo upper parts. If you then remove those drillers (or simply that weight) all componetes have internal tensio. It is helpfull, because it works better under tension than under pressure. It will tend to fold under pressure (when wing makes lift)
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hmm ... now I see it is not very well visible, probably I had to post better pictures, but you can see it in post #19 (3rd picture) in that old thread:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19265.0
if it is not clear may be I can find better pictures somewhere in archive
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hmm ... now I see it is not very well visible, probably I had to post better pictures, but you can see it in post #19 (3rd picture) in that old thread:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19265.0
if it is not clear may be I can find better pictures somewhere in archive
Igor,
OK, now I know what you mean. No I didn't do any "preloading". The pdf plans looked like it used a 1 piece cf spar. Your pictures show a 2 piece spar. I thought it was 2 piece because it would be easier to package the kit. I should of known better that you do things for a reason. :>).
On my next one I'll have to "preload" it. Anything else I need to be aware of?
I'll let you know what's available as far as Spiderwire goes. Yeah, I figured tieing the knots would be a challenge. BTW, did you use normal line eyelets? It looks like you do with the size of the hole in the LO guide.
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:- )))
I think no other tricks, but I do not know ... may be something is "normal" what is strane for you and strange for what is normal for you :- )))
No I do not use any connectros, I connect it directly to those wires on bellcrank and to hooks on handle, nothing special.
I found that simplest and maybe the only working knot is, if you fold the end of the line so it makes begin of eye and then you do usual simple knot on that double line. It is the only knot which does not tend to disassemble which I found, but you can search knots for fishing lines, may be you can find something better :- )))
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OK, Igor. I'll let you know how it all works out. Thanks.
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Just for fun here is a neat site, animated knots. http://www.animatedknots.com/
Igor I saw the drills in the other build post but it didn't dawn on me what it was.
Now it all makes sense.
Mike
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Couldn't remember the name of the one I use, it is the "Bow line"
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Updated the drawing to include all my build changes which include a narrower fuselage brace, enlarged elevator cut out in the rudder, additional details, and relocated bell crank. These are now what appear in the OP. Enjoy! 8am Jan 22.
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Update.
The CF2822 1300Kv motor arrived today. With the mount and bullet connectors it weighs 49 grams! Ouch! I ordered the HK 2205C-1400Kv motor and I'll report on that. It'll be interesting to compare the 2.
Also when bench testing I noticed that the battery wires and JST connector was getting warm. I also ordered some EC2 connectors for the batteries. I also might go from 20awg to at least 18 or 16awg when I install the EC2 connctors. I don't want any connectors that are getting warm.
Need to get some Spiderwire tomorrow and then I'll be all set. The plane is flyable with the CF2822 and the existing battery wires.
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Hi Crist, You do such nice build threads, so thanks for another fine job! I see that the indoor R/C pattern guys remove all connectors, even the servo connectors and wire everything together just to get rid of every last gram that they don't feel is vital to the system. Maybe this is an idea here as well?? Just a thought.
Keith R
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Also when bench testing I noticed that the battery wires and JST connector was getting warm. I also ordered some EC2 connectors for the batteries. I also might go from 20awg to at least 18 ot 16awg when I install the EC2 connctors. I don't want any connectors that are getting warm.
only 2 notes:
1/ NEVER let it run on bench ... it will burn :-))) 10" prop is over possibilities of that power train, it will unload in air, but static draw it too large .. if you want, then use smaller prop
2/ NEVER use those toy connectros, they are rated max 5A and they will not only get hot, they also limit power, I saw in on my own eyes, friend of mine could not make it flying overhead, we did not know why, and then I found that the connector was hot after flight, we used 1.8 mm MPJ connectros and problem was solved :- )))
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The CF2822 1300Kv motor arrived today. with the mount and bullet connectors it weighs 49 grams!
I do not use connectros between motor and esc, just like Keith wrote. However sometimes is better if motor disconnects from esc after crash :- ))))
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only 2 notes:
1/ NEVER let it run on bench ... it will burn :-))) 10" prop is over possibilities of that power train, it will unload in air, but static draw it too large .. if you want, then use smaller prop
2/ NEVER use those toy connectros, they are rated max 5A and they will not only get hot, they also limit power, I saw in on my own eyes, friend of mine could not make it flying overhead, we did not know why, and then I found that the connector was hot after flight, we used 1.8 mm MPJ connectros and problem was solved :- )))
Igor, Very good points! I had my Wattmeter connected to it and watched the amps and temperature, and ran it for only a a few seconds at at time to be sure I wasn't going to burn anything up. The max amp draw on the bench with the CF2822-1300Kv and the APC 10 x4.7 Slo Flyer prop was very close to 6 amps at 4500 rpm.
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I received my EC2 connectors form Hobby King today. I spent some time changing the battery wires and connectors. I removed the 20awg wires and used 16awg wires (the largest that the EC2 connectors will handle) and installed EC2 connectors. I shortened the balance and the discharge wires to a more reasonable length. When finished each battery still weighed 43 grams. No weight gained what-so-ever. #^
I also picked up some line material. I got some Sufix 832 6lb .006 .14mm Neon Lime 150 yards braid fishing line. It'll give me superior knot strength, abrasion resistance, and casting distance! Oh yeah. y1 Did I get the right stuff?
Tomorrow I'll make up a couple sets of line. Then I'll be ready to go flying!
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we fly green spiderwire, I think the strength was 5 kilo or something like that, means much more then this, but try it,, the wire should have "steel strength" ... means it shouln not elongate under load so much like silon fishing wire
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This stuff isn't supposed to stretch. I'll try it and let everyone know how well it works. I was busy today and didn't get to making up the lines. Tomorrow!
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Hello
I broke a line of the same material (sufix 6lb/2.7Kg), This is the last model where I expected a line failure but take care.
I suppose the line had a defect but I went back to thicker lines.
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I have thinner, I think 0.14mm but rated to 9 kilo or something like that
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Guys,
I just logged on to post my findings on using this line and saw these last 2 posts.
I rigged up a pull test on my bench this morning and did an actual pull test. The system pulled to 19.2 pounds before breaking. The AMA requires a 10X pull test. For a 9 ounce airplane (250g) it comes to 90 ounces (256g) or 5.625 lbs. I'm uploading the video now. It'll take about 30 minutes till it is visible to everyone. I used a surgeon's knot on each end. The rig consisted of 2 bell cranks. The first is tied to my bench and the other to my pull scale. The video will show and explain all.
https://vimeo.com/58299315
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I have thinner, I think 0.14mm but rated to 9 kilo or something like that
Igor,
Can you post a picture of the box the lines came in? The lines I'm using are .14mm but only 6lb 2.7kg. I'd like to know what .14mm line is rated at 9kg.
Thanks.
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Hello
I broke a line of the same material (sufix 6lb/2.7Kg), This is the last model where I expected a line failure but take care.
I suppose the line had a defect but I went back to thicker lines.
Alberto,
Thanks for the heads up. I did a pull test to failure and the lines held up way past 6lb 2.7kg. See my video in the post above.
Also are you guys still using the HK 2205C-1400KV motor?
Thanks.
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Igor,
Can you post a picture of the box the lines came in? The lines I'm using are .14mm but only 6lb 2.7kg. I'd like to know what .14mm line is rated at 9kg.
Thanks.
no, sorry, I got that mine 4 years ago :- )))))
I just know that the number was unbelievable and I did pull test and it was clear that the number was oveestimated :- ))) ... or simply rated without know, but it was far far over srength of depron construction
I see I will need to go to fishing shop where I got it :- )))
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I thought that I'd post pictures of where the line broke during the pull test. It looks like it broke at the knots. What I thought was along its length, those are the free ends. I looked close under a magnifier and you can see where the line broke.
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no, sorry, I got that mine 4 years ago :- )))))
I just know that the number was unbelievable and I did pull test and it was clear that the number was oveestimated :- ))) ... or simply rated without know, but it was far far over srength of depron construction
I see I will need to go to fishing shop where I got it :- )))
Not to worry Igor. I just thought that it would be good information the share with the group.
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Alberto,
Thanks for the heads up. I did a pull test to failure and the lines held up way past 6lb 2.7kg. See my video in the post above.
Also are you guys still using the HK 2205C-1400KV motor?
Thanks.
We use that motor but our models are about 50 grams lighter.
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Christ, that bellcrank does not look like our 4"
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We use that motor but our models are about 50 grams lighter.
OK. Thanks.
I'm thinking of building another one, only lighter!
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Christ, that bellcrank does not look like our 4"
Igor,
My bell crank is made out of 1/16 .063 plywood. I did make it so I can adjust the "throw" of the elevator pushrod, if need be. The outer most hole matches your bell crank.
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the size 4" is to limit the force necessary to deflect elevator, the line tension is VERY small and size of bellcrank can limit controlling overhead on when it fly vely slow
we do it from GF plates 0.6mm but I had it also from old CD ... it is very strong material :- )))
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the size 4" is to limit the force necessary to deflect elevator, the line tension is VERY small and size of bellcrank can limit controlling overhead on when it fly vely slow
we do it from GF plates 0.6mm but I had it also from old CD ... it is very strong material :- )))
The CD is a great idea!
Yes, my bellcrank is 4 inches.
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I flew it tonight in a small hangar at the airport. It needs a lot of trimming. I had to add some tail weight. I think 4 degrees of downthrust is too much. It turns inside OK, but outsides it just whips around. Maybe it needs a pushrod fairlead? I think 4600 rpm is just about right. I did a few wingovers. Boy does it go over slowly! The hangar wasn't that tall inside so I had to be careful. I'll do more trimming and such in the bigger hangar another time. The thing does glide like a brick! I used both the GWS and the APC props. On the APC props I also tried both tractor and pusher. I think I like the tractor prop for now. Again much trimming is needed.
Here's a video of the last flight this evening. It should be ready at about 10:30pm. Monday.
https://vimeo.com/58425863
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So flying :- )))))))
But slow? I see it was QUICK :- ))))
The down thrust is for tractor, it must be reversed (up thrust) for tractor. I think you have too long upper line, it seemes like you have permanently up handle. That could be reason.
And I think it is tail heavy, at least it looks overcontrolled in corners.
And do you think it glides like a brick? I do not think. I think it does not glide at all :- )))))))))))))))) ... it is airplane with vertical landing :- ))))))
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So flying :- )))))))
But slow? I see it was QUICK :- ))))
The down thrust is for tractor, it must be reversed (up thrust) for tractor. I think you have too long upper line, it seemes like you have permanently up handle. That could be reason.
And I think it is tail heavy, at least it looks overcontrolled in corners.
And do you think it glides like a brick? I do not think. I think it does not glide at all :- )))))))))))))))) ... it is airplane with vertical landing :- ))))))
Yeah, it was quick. About 4 seconds lap. The plane is on the heavy side and first time out I wanted to be sure it was going to go up and over. Very different watching the plane go so slowly doing loops and wingovers. :>)))
I looked at the video and you're right, the up line is too long. That will be fixed next time out.
I'll recheck the balance point too. It might have been tail heavy too.
Thanks.
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Do not affraid of slow lap times, if it is too slow, it will simply stop in middle of wingover, but it will not fall :- )))))
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At that speed you need longer lines, I would think. I have watched Igor's videos several times and wonder what kept the plane on the end of the lines. Crist I think you were over controlling a couple of times. Great video.
My question is what is the total cost for that setup? Also will you be doing kits?
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Tania is working hard on kits :- )))
so far I see the only problem is with printed colors, but she is color magician, so I expect she will solve also that problem :- ))))
in any case, I expect that it all will consist of followin (I think it is not necessary to be in one kit) foam parts (I have seen CNC cut parts in her hands), carbon rods (available in shops, but deliverable with foam parts), pack of all small parts (available), pack of beginers (or start up) power train (available, but I am not sure if sendable, because it contains also battery - but could be removed), OR expert power train pack with timer with accelerometer, Jeti SPIN 11 ESC and optionaly Jetibox (available, but expensive)
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That is why I am getting onto to Crist as he is stateside and within driving distance for me.
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you had to catch him when he had parts free, not glued ... it is question of 10 minutes to "knifecopy" them :- ))))))
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Igor,
All the adjustments have been made. I shortened the up line, rebalanced the plane to the CG shown on the plans, reduced RPM to 4300 ( can go up to 4500 if needed without the computer), redid my battery mount to use rubber bands much like yours, and added some left rudder. :>))))))))
I also sucked the air out of the tires and added helium to make it lighter. :>)
We'll see what happens next time out.
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I do : )))
Greetings Crist ; )) lovely work I like it : )
I also building my gee bee at home and preparing for the contest in Pardubice Czech republic : )) I hope that year many people to come : ) it's III international contest with date 09-10 March : )
Here anyone of you can find more information about it : )
http://pavel.macek.hk/CL_Calendar/2013/Bulletin/CZE-361.pdf
Hi Tania,
Sorry I missed getting back to you. Thank you for the kind words. Hope you do well at the contest.
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Flew a couple of flights in our hangar today. Much, much better. The handle neutral was very good, the speed was good, but the power going up and over was a little weak. I added 200rpm (4500) and it was much better. Overhead 8's, clovers, vertical 8's, all good. It'll take several more sessions to start doing a decent pattern. You have to go easy on the controls! I'm very pleased.
I'm going to build another one, but make it lighter. I have a Phoenix 10 on its way (18 grams lighter)! Hopefully I can get the weight down to @215 grams. BTW, I flew both the GWS and the APC 10 x 4.7 slo flyer props today. I might just like the GWS a little better.
Lots of fun. Trust the airplane! I had a bunch of guys watching me. They all thought it was cool!
Get yours done and have some winter fun till the snow melts!
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BTW, 4 minutes of flying costs @300ma from the batteries!
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BTW, 4 minutes of flying costs @300ma from the batteries!
I look up and see your building another log only thing is this is more like a twig. Looks fun.
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Hmmm so far the only thing which is worry me is that i found a company which sale folio about 0.008 mm and i buy it ...put it to model and looks ok, but i am not sure that it will resist during the fly : ( Man from the company said it will not move, but hmm he is simply a caller and normal to say that. If someone has experience I will be happy to share here.....or at least what shell expect?
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I'm interested in a Gee Bee kit when they become available, please keep us all posted, thanks.
Scott
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I'm interested in a Gee Bee kit when they become available, please keep us all posted, thanks.
Scott
Already done : ))
www.indoorgeebee.com
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I went to the website. Do they sell in the States? How muchare the kits and what does it include? Anyone know?
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I sent a message from the website posted above to find out kit prices shipped to the states, and I was quoted 35 euro for white foam and 50 euro for printed graphics kit, plus 15 euro to ship to the US. So I think if I decide to build this one I'll most likely cut it myself, because I'm pretty sure 1 euro is still more than $1US, which makes the cost of this one kind of expensive.
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I cannot speak for Tania, and I did not see those kits in reality yet, but I can compare to previouse producer of that kit ... details are on this link:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19265.0
The price 2 years ago was aproximately same (that was made in Czech, so it was in another currency, rounder little bit different) ... and later it was discontinued bacause they was not able to keep the price. Then I tried to arrange making those kits myself and I was not able to fit it also, because of color printing. So I do not think it is too high. I ordered from Tania myself too and I hope I will see it soon.
You probably compare to some China stuff. This kit comes from Bulgaria, and she certainly cannot compete with China prices. ... so well ... if you want cheaper solution, the only chance is to cut foam home, I did first GB that way, but I will never do it again, it is work for whole day ... buy foam, draw parts, cut parts, repare mistakes :-P ... and colect small parts like bellcrank wheels etc ... I cannot do it home cheaper ... and it is still only white :- ))))
BTW I searched for another 100% european producer of similar models:
http://www.rc-factory.eu/detail.php?id=394
or compare any other:
http://www.rc-factory.eu/vyrobky.php?podkategorie=1&page=1
and those are models produced in larger quantities, so I would say 50E is good price, I wish she will not go up, when she will see what is it for a work (Tania do not read!!) :-P
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Igor,
All good points on the cost, and there is a lot of parts so hand cutting would definitely be time consuming. I'll have to think about it and decide if really want the Gee Bee as my first CL airplane since I was a young boy 35 years ago? I just know there are cheaper kits out there that I wouldn't worry about crashing as much as I re-learn how to fly CL. This Gee Bee sure looks fun though.
Scott
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I am looking at lines . I am using a set of 1/2 A linws that are .008 sullivan I cut down to 15 feet , has anyone used these befoe and how doese it measure up to spider wire ? I have never fished and know nothing about fishing line .... Also I am useing a 1/2A handle , I found out that the handle wires are too heavey for the indoow and am going to replace them with the .008 line as well ... what do you all think ?
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Jason, we use much thinner lines, 0.12mm to 0.14mm .. means under 0.006"
The poit is to use material which does not elongate too much (like old nylon fishing lines) under tension, for example green spiderwire braid EZ or similar.
I also found that usual cl handle is not optimal, it needs handle as light as possibe. Heavy or ergonomic handle does not give good feeling if you fly plane wich produce "no tension" :- ))) ... simple plywood handle is good approach. It also does not need clever mechanics for setting proper line length, because pushrod is easy acessible and it is allows moving push rod little bit in horn by one screw, so it is easy to make fine tuning without devices on handle :- ))
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Igor
Do you have a picture of the handle you are using?
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My handle looks like this:
http://www.jyrry.cbcnet.cz/grafika/indoor_heft_rozsyp.jpg
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My handle looks like this:
http://www.jyrry.cbcnet.cz/grafika/indoor_heft_rozsyp.jpg
Thanks.
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Igor , Has anybody ever Milled a GeeBee to save weight ? Is lighter better or is light too light ? I can make a 3D model with 3 servos the same size as the Gee Bee under 5oz., I can save an oz. by leaving the radio gear off If I make it C/L . I may still be in the dark though . I have found out that 3D Foamy's are nothing like C/L Foamys on how they are set up . Is a little hefty side better with C/L ?
Power Plants , How do you pick a motor ? With the RC I want a motor with atleast double the thrust of the weight of the model . what kind of power do you need for CL .
jason.
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Jason, no, we did not try because model weights proximately 8oz, so if you save little bit of foam, you will not save anything but the frame will become softer and it will flex in corners. It is soft already now.
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(http://)
My attempt to build a GeeBee . Milled .
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I also took your advise Igor and made me a handle . I nick name it brass knuckle ... 1/16 balsa with a 3mm foam core . I uses threaded rod ends with clevises to connect and adjust lines to , came out very light .
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this is a photo og my 4" belcrank made from a CD .
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rest of the parts made and milled . starting building now .
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My CD bellcrank fell apart today . it started getting little cracks all over it and than would just break apart . , My new one was made with 1/32 ply with 3/4 oz. glass cloth on the top of it . It works a lot better .
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Finished airframe - motor , timer, ESC, battery , = 72 grams . I dont think I will have any issues with the airframe being loose , It has very little flex in it and the wing is very strong . very happy with the way it came out . I do think that I may of over pre loaded the wing ? it has a little bit of a Gull effect to it but very little . I am not sure if 72 grams fir the sirframe is light. will be shopping for a motor next . I can post photos of the milling if you are wanting to see .
jason,
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I'd like to see the photos. 72 grams is light.
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Plane is ready to test fly , we are flying in the gym Saturday and if all works out I will have video of the flight .( the empty weight came to 115 g. or 4 oz. . I am running a Turnigy 2224/14T 1400kv motor I had laying around . Being new to control line electric can I run a big 10" prop without making magic smoke ? as I have ead the big prop will unload in the air / is this making it OK to run larger prop with out cooking the motor? a little note also I never use rubber bands on my indoor models , I use small zip ties . these alow the prop to flex still saving prop and you never loose bands each time you have a prop strike. All the St. Louis guys use this for years and its the cats meow .
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This is some photos showing how I milled my GeeBee to a empty weight (no battery) of 115g. or 4 oz. By Milling you can save up to 17% of the weight of the airframe allowing slower down lines and over all better performance . I know that this works well on RC 3D models .
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I can only attatch 2 photos at a time HB~>
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Flight report on the Milled GeeBee . It flys #^ I was playing with lap times to get it dialed in and the first wing over was at 5.4 sec lap with no governor .I had watched enough videos and read up on GeeBee I was not scared and put it right over the top first thing and stayed my ground , Talk about slow ... I could not believe it went all the way over and stayed tight on the lines flying so slow . Well that was too slow of lap times and I settled in with a 4.5 Lap time and was happy with that . I put about 6-8 patterns on it today with 6 more 1-2 min test flights try props and rpm /lap time . I started with no tip weight and ended up adding clay to the wingtip Little by little as needed , don't know what I have added , I will re weigh the plane and find out soon . I will post full specs and flight video soon . It is a fun plane , I was amazed at how tight the lines stayed at all times , alot more pull than I would think .
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:- ))))))))))))
I can imagine, you probably had time for 2 drinks :- )) ... you are right, most important is to believe that it will go over :- )))
5.4 is slow lap time even with governor, we fly 5.0 with governor and 5.3 with active timers.
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Here is a link to the test flight of my milled GeeBee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htbik90h6R4&feature=youtu.be
jason, #^
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Looks good. ;D
Great for cold windy days and nights.
What is the song on the video, I liked that too.
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I am sorry, forgot to put music in the credits. Paper airplanes by MIA
And seasons of the heart by john Denver. Still have some trimming to do on the plane the motor weighs 21g. I think it's a tad tail heavy. I used cley for tip weight to fine tune also. May try a little slower but think the speed is very close for what I have.
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Thanks Jason. ;D
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At that speed you need longer lines, I would think. I have watched Igor's videos several times and wonder what kept the plane on the end of the lines. Crist I think you were over controlling a couple of times. Great video.
My question is what is the total cost for that setup? Also will you be doing kits?
J
ohn you ask what was the toal cost of the set up ? I think I have about 50 bucks in mine . I scratch built everythign from plans but foam is cheap . I would like to see a mid west GeeBee Cup contest in the USA ... How fun , or atleast the few of us in the mid west get together and fly a weekend ..
jason
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The use of Speedbrakes and Side-force generators is interesting.
I wonder if this concept can be used on a C/L trainer to slow down the lap times.
Learn the patterns and shapes first then speed things up by reducing the surface area of the Speedbrakes?
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I myself is not a fan of airbreaks . you have to add a lot of power to over come the drag the breaks make . Even more so on the up lines ,and as far as side force generators I think they are not as efficient more the airframe weighs , on a 3-6 oz foamy i think they are OK but on a larger glow model i am not sure they would work . I could be wrong .
I learned all my shapes and get over my fear of the ground flying stunt kites . than C/L stunt came natural .
Charged my batterys and I flew 4 min and used 538mAh out of a 750mAh pack.
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The use of Speedbrakes and Side-force generators is interesting.
I wonder if this concept can be used on a C/L trainer to slow down the lap times.
Learn the patterns and shapes first then speed things up by reducing the surface area of the Speedbrakes?
whole large fuselage and landig gears (which are so wide on purpose) are side force generators :- )))
but yes brakes are necessary because model can overspeed nose down also without power as it has minimal front area thank to that thin foam used for wing, the difference is visibne on speed stability.
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I myself is not a fan of airbreaks . you have to add a lot of power to over come the drag the breaks make . Even more so on the up lines ,and as far as side force generators I think they are not as efficient more the airframe weighs , on a 3-6 oz foamy i think they are OK but on a larger glow model i am not sure they would work . I could be wrong .
I learned all my shapes and get over my fear of the ground flying stunt kites . than C/L stunt came natural .
Charged my batterys and I flew 4 min and used 538mAh out of a 750mAh pack.
Jason, may be your milled foam surface is more effective then our brakes, because I need ~550 mAh for 5:10 minutes and complete program :- ))
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KflatMocXbc
And here some video, delivered from Paul Winter from Great Brittan. In short way he explain very nice details of gee bee system mechanism ; ) I think it could be helpful, because he fly for first time gee bee indoor model ; ) and shows definitelly more fun, than worries about how the model will fly : )))) ( 9 place in the main score of contest ) .
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and also how to make good reason to meet friends on such winter contest :- ))))
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Thanks for the video. I could see that Igor's winning flight must have been a lot better than the demo. But, I am a nit picker. When these gentlemen get more time on their planes, Igor better watch out.
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I dressed up my GeeBee a little and put my AMA Number on it for contests along with a Pampa logo on the ruder and painted the canopy . Also hacked some numbers ...
Airframe =72g.
empty weight= 115g.
wingtip weight= 16g.
battery= 49G
Flying weight now = 180g. / 6.3oz
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Very nice Jason.
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new plane to my fleet