Author Topic: Igor Burger's GeeBee R3 C/L - A build log (Read 23445 times)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #50 on:** January 29, 2013, 08:38:04 AM »

At that speed you need longer lines, I would think. I have watched Igor's videos several times and wonder what kept the plane on the end of the lines. Crist I think you were over controlling a couple of times. Great video.

My question is what is the total cost for that setup? Also will you be doing kits?

Igor Burger · « **Reply #51 on:** January 29, 2013, 08:58:31 AM »

Tania is working hard on kits :- )))

so far I see the only problem is with printed colors, but she is color magician, so I expect she will solve also that problem :- ))))

in any case, I expect that it all will consist of followin (I think it is not necessary to be in one kit) foam parts (I have seen CNC cut parts in her hands), carbon rods (available in shops, but deliverable with foam parts), pack of all small parts (available), pack of beginers (or start up) power train (available, but I am not sure if sendable, because it contains also battery - but could be removed), OR expert power train pack with timer with accelerometer, Jeti SPIN 11 ESC and optionaly Jetibox (available, but expensive)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #52 on:** January 29, 2013, 09:00:46 AM »

That is why I am getting onto to Crist as he is stateside and within driving distance for me.

Igor Burger · « **Reply #53 on:** January 29, 2013, 09:03:49 AM »

you had to catch him when he had parts free, not glued ... it is question of 10 minutes to "knifecopy" them :- ))))))

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #54 on:** January 29, 2013, 08:09:12 PM »

Igor,
All the adjustments have been made. I shortened the up line, rebalanced the plane to the CG shown on the plans, reduced RPM to 4300 ( can go up to 4500 if needed without the computer), redid my battery mount to use rubber bands much like yours, and added some left rudder. :>))))))))
I also sucked the air out of the tires and added helium to make it lighter. :>)
We'll see what happens next time out.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #55 on:** January 30, 2013, 09:14:07 AM »

Quote from: Tania Uzunova on January 21, 2013, 02:09:24 AM

I do : )))

Greetings Crist ; )) lovely work I like it : )
I also building my gee bee at home and preparing for the contest in Pardubice Czech republic : )) I hope that year many people to come : ) it's III international contest with date 09-10 March : )

Here anyone of you can find more information about it : )

http://pavel.macek.hk/CL_Calendar/2013/Bulletin/CZE-361.pdf

Hi Tania,

Sorry I missed getting back to you. Thank you for the kind words. Hope you do well at the contest.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #56 on:** February 06, 2013, 06:03:10 PM »

Flew a couple of flights in our hangar today. Much, much better. The handle neutral was very good, the speed was good, but the power going up and over was a little weak. I added 200rpm (4500) and it was much better. Overhead 8's, clovers, vertical 8's, all good. It'll take several more sessions to start doing a decent pattern. You have to go easy on the controls! I'm very pleased.

I'm going to build another one, but make it lighter. I have a Phoenix 10 on its way (18 grams lighter)! Hopefully I can get the weight down to @215 grams. BTW, I flew both the GWS and the APC 10 x 4.7 slo flyer props today. I might just like the GWS a little better.

Lots of fun. Trust the airplane! I had a bunch of guys watching me. They all thought it was cool!

Get yours done and have some winter fun till the snow melts!

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #57 on:** February 07, 2013, 09:31:52 PM »

BTW, 4 minutes of flying costs @300ma from the batteries!

RC Storick · « **Reply #58 on:** February 07, 2013, 11:07:26 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on February 07, 2013, 09:31:52 PM

BTW, 4 minutes of flying costs @300ma from the batteries!

I look up and see your building another log only thing is this is more like a twig. Looks fun.

Tania Uzunova · « **Reply #59 on:** February 08, 2013, 01:26:49 AM »

Hmmm so far the only thing which is worry me is that i found a company which sale folio about 0.008 mm and i buy it ...put it to model and looks ok, but i am not sure that it will resist during the fly : ( Man from the company said it will not move, but hmm he is simply a caller and normal to say that. If someone has experience I will be happy to share here.....or at least what shell expect?

Scott Redlin · « **Reply #60 on:** February 16, 2013, 09:07:09 AM »

I'm interested in a Gee Bee kit when they become available, please keep us all posted, thanks.

Scott

Tania Uzunova · « **Reply #61 on:** February 16, 2013, 02:31:15 PM »

Quote from: Scott Redlin on February 16, 2013, 09:07:09 AM

I'm interested in a Gee Bee kit when they become available, please keep us all posted, thanks.

Scott

Already done : ))

www.indoorgeebee.com

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #62 on:** February 16, 2013, 06:17:53 PM »

I went to the website. Do they sell in the States? How muchare the kits and what does it include? Anyone know?

Scott Redlin · « **Reply #63 on:** February 16, 2013, 09:51:25 PM »

I sent a message from the website posted above to find out kit prices shipped to the states, and I was quoted 35 euro for white foam and 50 euro for printed graphics kit, plus 15 euro to ship to the US. So I think if I decide to build this one I'll most likely cut it myself, because I'm pretty sure 1 euro is still more than $1US, which makes the cost of this one kind of expensive.

Igor Burger · « **Reply #64 on:** February 17, 2013, 01:54:14 AM »

I cannot speak for Tania, and I did not see those kits in reality yet, but I can compare to previouse producer of that kit ... details are on this link:

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19265.0

The price 2 years ago was aproximately same (that was made in Czech, so it was in another currency, rounder little bit different) ... and later it was discontinued bacause they was not able to keep the price. Then I tried to arrange making those kits myself and I was not able to fit it also, because of color printing. So I do not think it is too high. I ordered from Tania myself too and I hope I will see it soon.

You probably compare to some China stuff. This kit comes from Bulgaria, and she certainly cannot compete with China prices. ... so well ... if you want cheaper solution, the only chance is to cut foam home, I did first GB that way, but I will never do it again, it is work for whole day ... buy foam, draw parts, cut parts, repare mistakes :-P ... and colect small parts like bellcrank wheels etc ... I cannot do it home cheaper ... and it is still only white :- ))))

BTW I searched for another 100% european producer of similar models:

http://www.rc-factory.eu/detail.php?id=394

or compare any other:

http://www.rc-factory.eu/vyrobky.php?podkategorie=1&page=1

and those are models produced in larger quantities, so I would say 50E is good price, I wish she will not go up, when she will see what is it for a work (Tania do not read!!) :-P

Scott Redlin · « **Reply #65 on:** February 17, 2013, 07:56:06 AM »

Igor,

All good points on the cost, and there is a lot of parts so hand cutting would definitely be time consuming. I'll have to think about it and decide if really want the Gee Bee as my first CL airplane since I was a young boy 35 years ago? I just know there are cheaper kits out there that I wouldn't worry about crashing as much as I re-learn how to fly CL. This Gee Bee sure looks fun though.

Scott

jason Pearson · « **Reply #66 on:** March 04, 2013, 11:25:42 PM »

I am looking at lines . I am using a set of 1/2 A linws that are .008 sullivan I cut down to 15 feet , has anyone used these befoe and how doese it measure up to spider wire ? I have never fished and know nothing about fishing line .... Also I am useing a 1/2A handle , I found out that the handle wires are too heavey for the indoow and am going to replace them with the .008 line as well ... what do you all think ?

Igor Burger · « **Reply #67 on:** March 05, 2013, 02:08:09 AM »

Jason, we use much thinner lines, 0.12mm to 0.14mm .. means under 0.006"

The poit is to use material which does not elongate too much (like old nylon fishing lines) under tension, for example green spiderwire braid EZ or similar.

I also found that usual cl handle is not optimal, it needs handle as light as possibe. Heavy or ergonomic handle does not give good feeling if you fly plane wich produce "no tension" :- ))) ... simple plywood handle is good approach. It also does not need clever mechanics for setting proper line length, because pushrod is easy acessible and it is allows moving push rod little bit in horn by one screw, so it is easy to make fine tuning without devices on handle :- ))

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #68 on:** March 05, 2013, 07:54:09 AM »

Igor
Do you have a picture of the handle you are using?

Igor Burger · « **Reply #69 on:** March 05, 2013, 08:16:54 AM »

My handle looks like this:

http://www.jyrry.cbcnet.cz/grafika/indoor_heft_rozsyp.jpg

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #70 on:** March 05, 2013, 09:17:25 AM »

Quote from: Igor Burger on March 05, 2013, 08:16:54 AM

My handle looks like this:

http://www.jyrry.cbcnet.cz/grafika/indoor_heft_rozsyp.jpg

Thanks.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #71 on:** March 05, 2013, 07:24:59 PM »

Igor , Has anybody ever Milled a GeeBee to save weight ? Is lighter better or is light too light ? I can make a 3D model with 3 servos the same size as the Gee Bee under 5oz., I can save an oz. by leaving the radio gear off If I make it C/L . I may still be in the dark though . I have found out that 3D Foamy's are nothing like C/L Foamys on how they are set up . Is a little hefty side better with C/L ?

Power Plants , How do you pick a motor ? With the RC I want a motor with atleast double the thrust of the weight of the model . what kind of power do you need for CL .

jason.

Igor Burger · « **Reply #72 on:** March 06, 2013, 01:13:57 AM »

Jason, no, we did not try because model weights proximately 8oz, so if you save little bit of foam, you will not save anything but the frame will become softer and it will flex in corners. It is soft already now.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #73 on:** March 07, 2013, 06:42:36 PM »

My attempt to build a GeeBee . Milled .

jason Pearson · « **Reply #74 on:** March 07, 2013, 06:47:38 PM »

I also took your advise Igor and made me a handle . I nick name it brass knuckle ... 1/16 balsa with a 3mm foam core . I uses threaded rod ends with clevises to connect and adjust lines to , came out very light .

jason Pearson · « **Reply #75 on:** March 10, 2013, 09:29:58 PM »

this is a photo og my 4" belcrank made from a CD .

jason Pearson · « **Reply #76 on:** March 10, 2013, 09:32:07 PM »

rest of the parts made and milled . starting building now .

jason Pearson · « **Reply #77 on:** March 11, 2013, 09:58:26 PM »

My CD bellcrank fell apart today . it started getting little cracks all over it and than would just break apart . , My new one was made with 1/32 ply with 3/4 oz. glass cloth on the top of it . It works a lot better .

jason Pearson · « **Reply #78 on:** March 11, 2013, 10:05:43 PM »

Finished airframe - motor , timer, ESC, battery , = 72 grams . I dont think I will have any issues with the airframe being loose , It has very little flex in it and the wing is very strong . very happy with the way it came out . I do think that I may of over pre loaded the wing ? it has a little bit of a Gull effect to it but very little . I am not sure if 72 grams fir the sirframe is light. will be shopping for a motor next . I can post photos of the milling if you are wanting to see .

jason,

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #79 on:** March 12, 2013, 06:27:37 AM »

I'd like to see the photos. 72 grams is light.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #80 on:** March 12, 2013, 12:16:10 PM »

Plane is ready to test fly , we are flying in the gym Saturday and if all works out I will have video of the flight .( the empty weight came to 115 g. or 4 oz. . I am running a Turnigy 2224/14T 1400kv motor I had laying around . Being new to control line electric can I run a big 10" prop without making magic smoke ? as I have ead the big prop will unload in the air / is this making it OK to run larger prop with out cooking the motor? a little note also I never use rubber bands on my indoor models , I use small zip ties . these alow the prop to flex still saving prop and you never loose bands each time you have a prop strike. All the St. Louis guys use this for years and its the cats meow .

jason Pearson · « **Reply #81 on:** March 12, 2013, 12:41:23 PM »

This is some photos showing how I milled my GeeBee to a empty weight (no battery) of 115g. or 4 oz. By Milling you can save up to 17% of the weight of the airframe allowing slower down lines and over all better performance . I know that this works well on RC 3D models .

jason Pearson · « **Reply #82 on:** March 12, 2013, 12:47:50 PM »

I can only attatch 2 photos at a time

jason Pearson · « **Reply #83 on:** March 16, 2013, 09:28:41 PM »

Flight report on the Milled GeeBee . It flys

I was playing with lap times to get it dialed in and the first wing over was at 5.4 sec lap with no governor .I had watched enough videos and read up on GeeBee I was not scared and put it right over the top first thing and stayed my ground , Talk about slow ... I could not believe it went all the way over and stayed tight on the lines flying so slow . Well that was too slow of lap times and I settled in with a 4.5 Lap time and was happy with that . I put about 6-8 patterns on it today with 6 more 1-2 min test flights try props and rpm /lap time . I started with no tip weight and ended up adding clay to the wingtip Little by little as needed , don't know what I have added , I will re weigh the plane and find out soon . I will post full specs and flight video soon . It is a fun plane , I was amazed at how tight the lines stayed at all times , alot more pull than I would think .

Igor Burger · « **Reply #84 on:** March 17, 2013, 02:12:16 AM »

:- ))))))))))))

I can imagine, you probably had time for 2 drinks :- )) ... you are right, most important is to believe that it will go over :- )))

5.4 is slow lap time even with governor, we fly 5.0 with governor and 5.3 with active timers.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #85 on:** March 17, 2013, 10:51:18 PM »

Here is a link to the test flight of my milled GeeBee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htbik90h6R4&feature=youtu.be

jason,

Russell Bond · « **Reply #86 on:** March 18, 2013, 07:30:00 AM »

Looks good.

Great for cold windy days and nights.

What is the song on the video, I liked that too.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #87 on:** March 18, 2013, 07:49:34 AM »

I am sorry, forgot to put music in the credits. Paper airplanes by MIA

And seasons of the heart by john Denver. Still have some trimming to do on the plane the motor weighs 21g. I think it's a tad tail heavy. I used cley for tip weight to fine tune also. May try a little slower but think the speed is very close for what I have.

Russell Bond · « **Reply #88 on:** March 18, 2013, 03:20:14 PM »

Thanks Jason.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #89 on:** March 18, 2013, 04:59:23 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on January 29, 2013, 08:38:04 AM

At that speed you need longer lines, I would think. I have watched Igor's videos several times and wonder what kept the plane on the end of the lines. Crist I think you were over controlling a couple of times. Great video.

My question is what is the total cost for that setup? Also will you be doing kits?

J

ohn you ask what was the toal cost of the set up ? I think I have about 50 bucks in mine . I scratch built everythign from plans but foam is cheap . I would like to see a mid west GeeBee Cup contest in the USA ... How fun , or atleast the few of us in the mid west get together and fly a weekend ..

jason

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #90 on:** March 18, 2013, 11:03:46 PM »

The use of Speedbrakes and Side-force generators is interesting.
I wonder if this concept can be used on a C/L trainer to slow down the lap times.
Learn the patterns and shapes first then speed things up by reducing the surface area of the Speedbrakes?

jason Pearson · « **Reply #91 on:** March 19, 2013, 05:17:14 PM »

I myself is not a fan of airbreaks . you have to add a lot of power to over come the drag the breaks make . Even more so on the up lines ,and as far as side force generators I think they are not as efficient more the airframe weighs , on a 3-6 oz foamy i think they are OK but on a larger glow model i am not sure they would work . I could be wrong .

I learned all my shapes and get over my fear of the ground flying stunt kites . than C/L stunt came natural .

Charged my batterys and I flew 4 min and used 538mAh out of a 750mAh pack.

Igor Burger · « **Reply #92 on:** March 20, 2013, 01:08:53 AM »

Quote from: Douglas Ames on March 18, 2013, 11:03:46 PM

The use of Speedbrakes and Side-force generators is interesting.
I wonder if this concept can be used on a C/L trainer to slow down the lap times.
Learn the patterns and shapes first then speed things up by reducing the surface area of the Speedbrakes?

whole large fuselage and landig gears (which are so wide on purpose) are side force generators :- )))

but yes brakes are necessary because model can overspeed nose down also without power as it has minimal front area thank to that thin foam used for wing, the difference is visibne on speed stability.

Igor Burger · « **Reply #93 on:** March 20, 2013, 01:13:37 AM »

Quote from: jason Pearson on March 19, 2013, 05:17:14 PM

I myself is not a fan of airbreaks . you have to add a lot of power to over come the drag the breaks make . Even more so on the up lines ,and as far as side force generators I think they are not as efficient more the airframe weighs , on a 3-6 oz foamy i think they are OK but on a larger glow model i am not sure they would work . I could be wrong .

I learned all my shapes and get over my fear of the ground flying stunt kites . than C/L stunt came natural .

Charged my batterys and I flew 4 min and used 538mAh out of a 750mAh pack.

Jason, may be your milled foam surface is more effective then our brakes, because I need ~550 mAh for 5:10 minutes and complete program :- ))

Tania Uzunova · « **Reply #94 on:** March 20, 2013, 01:22:08 AM »

And here some video, delivered from Paul Winter from Great Brittan. In short way he explain very nice details of gee bee system mechanism ; ) I think it could be helpful, because he fly for first time gee bee indoor model ; ) and shows definitelly more fun, than worries about how the model will fly : )))) ( 9 place in the main score of contest ) .

Igor Burger · « **Reply #95 on:** March 20, 2013, 01:34:55 AM »

and also how to make good reason to meet friends on such winter contest :- ))))

john e. holliday · « **Reply #96 on:** March 20, 2013, 08:07:26 AM »

Thanks for the video. I could see that Igor's winning flight must have been a lot better than the demo. But, I am a nit picker. When these gentlemen get more time on their planes, Igor better watch out.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #97 on:** March 22, 2013, 05:34:01 PM »

I dressed up my GeeBee a little and put my AMA Number on it for contests along with a Pampa logo on the ruder and painted the canopy . Also hacked some numbers ...

Airframe =72g.
empty weight= 115g.
wingtip weight= 16g.
battery= 49G

Flying weight now = 180g. / 6.3oz

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #98 on:** March 22, 2013, 06:48:26 PM »

Very nice Jason.

jason Pearson · « **Reply #99 on:** March 23, 2013, 07:52:32 PM »

new plane to my fleet