Author Topic: Ice 50 ESC Programing (Read 3130 times)

Darkstar1 · « **on:** November 27, 2009, 11:37:49 AM »

Hi all,
I just the ice50 controller a few days ago and everything I've tried so far it seems I cant control the rpm at the time and the best the rpms can do is 8500 before declining.I put the turnigy esc back on and I can control the rpm from the timer again. and the motor starts up around 9500 before fine tuning.So here are the setup details.
Turnigy SK-3548-900
Ice 50 ESC
Rhino 4000mAh 4S2P 25C
Hubin FM-2a timer with remote button
APC 13x4.5 prop
ESC Setup.
C/l Mode
Gov mode: Gain 25,Spool up rate: 8
Head speed change rate :8
1:1 Ratio
900 KV Motor, Magnetic poles 14
Head speeds: All set to 10000
Brake: 100%
Brake delay :.6 sec
Brake ramp: Immediate
Cut off: Hard
Current limiting: 70a
Cutoff volts:Auto
Motor start power:100%
Timing:10
Auto lipo volts cell 3.0v cell

This is all I can scrounge up for now. If more info is needed just let me know.
Hope everyone had good turkey yesterday

Later.
P.S I have the latest software version 3.220.

Archie Adamisin · « **Reply #1 on:** November 27, 2009, 12:11:26 PM »

Not sure I see where the issue is here. Are you set-up to run the fixed RPM or governor high? Sounds like you may have selected Governor low. I would either select governor high or set rpm and it should run fine. I also run the FM2 Hublin timer, so if you run the Set RPM mode, you have (3) rpms to choose from. 0-49% is RPM 1, 50-99% is RPM #2, and 100% is RPM #3 on the rpm pot of the timer.

What are your aircraft specs? Weight, area, line length, desired lap time? I can send you a program that will get you close.

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 27, 2009, 02:29:01 PM »

Hi Archie,
Right now I'm doing all this from the bench, I'm running at set RPM. But as for the A/C here are the Specs.
Wing Span: 51.75 in
Length: 55 in
Area :650 sq in
Weight: 62.5 oz (Approx) Haven't weighted it yet since putting the wing back & reconfigured the wiring/battery.Working on that now.
Lines: 62.5' Eye 2 Eye
Props:APC 13x4, 13x4.5p
Lap Times 5.2-5.3

Thanks,

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #3 on:** November 27, 2009, 03:54:27 PM »

If you are using "SET RPM", what values are you choosing for the 3 set values?

Also if you take off the prop, what is the max rpm you can get (go to normal airplane mode and put timer for 100% throttle). Just curious whether your kV is what it is suppose to be.

Added::

Just re-read your original post---Is your ICE setup for PWM rate = "Outrunner Mode"? If so, try something in the 12kHz range.

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 27, 2009, 04:49:16 PM »

Ive used Set RPM and set the values for all three the same from 9500-11000 rpms.
I've just run the motor witn no prop and here's the results.Im set in outrunner will try
12khz. Thanks.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2009, 05:02:13 PM »

I can't tell for sure, but if that is with no prop, it looks like the rpm's are in the 5.8k (except for a burst to near 8.5k).

But what worries me most is that the temperature is rising to ~140 degrees--and this with no prop! This isn't good!

Yes, go to 12kHz and out of Outrunner mode!

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2009, 05:13:17 PM »

Well!
Going to 12kHz worked, the Rpm's were up past 10k, tried 2 tone it down couldn't. Then about halfway the motor
smoked. So I shut it down and loaded the data. Here it is.
Thanks.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #7 on:** November 27, 2009, 07:58:52 PM »

Well the treatment was a success but the patient died.

Was the prop on?

If it was then I guess I didn't get to the point where I usually recommend using a smaller prop for static runs since once in the air, the power needed will drop (approximately 30% or so).

Ouch................

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 27, 2009, 08:17:19 PM »

Yes the prop was on but I could have put a smaller one on but at least I can get another one when there in stock again. In the mean while is there any thing similar out there that fits. If not I'll try the LHS.

Thanks again.

John Sunderland · « **Reply #9 on:** November 27, 2009, 08:29:55 PM »

Shoot! I will watch this thread...I may be changing my ideas if this becomes a problem. I had pretty much your exact set-up in mind. Would having all three rpm ranges set the same cause this somehow? Was this back to back etc.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #10 on:** November 27, 2009, 08:44:58 PM »

I think this can be filed under "unintended consequences".

If the ESC was still in set rpm mode for 9100 rpm, then the motor would probably be ok. But since we were exploring why it wasn't working according to plan, we deviated from "good practices". Then we actually fixed the root problem (outrunner mode), but the system was setup to run max power output. That is what happens when you have problems. They lead you down a path--and you can easily forget where you left things.

Also I think the Hubin timer will allow you to bail out of a run by pushing the button again. Need to look at my instruction sheet again.

Oh crap!

Robert-Jan · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2009, 01:44:56 AM »

My brand new Turnigy start smoking in the air after a half lap.
I went back to AXI
Seems they can't handle a bit higher current

Greetings Robert-Jan

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2009, 05:38:41 AM »

Robert-Jan
Which Turnigy U were using? The one I used and most of the Turingy SK's aren't in stock at the moment.
Therefore I must go to the LHS's today.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:20:23 AM »

Darrell:
I'm thinking a little CSI is in order: Open up the motor and see what's inside. For instance, in your Erratix thread you posted the pix of the motor with one ear ripped off the aluminum plate mount - that looks catastrophic, and you noted that one of the mounting plate screws was missing.

Your motor temperatures seem WAY out of line (140 deg w/o a prop?) suggesting that something else was at work...

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2009, 08:23:15 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on November 28, 2009, 06:20:23 AM

Darrell:
I'm thinking a little CSI is in order: Open up the motor and see what's inside. For instance, in your Erratix thread you posted the pix of the motor with one ear ripped off the aluminum plate mount - that looks catastrophic, and you noted that one of the mounting plate screws was missing.

Your motor temperatures seem WAY out of line (140 deg w/o a prop?) suggesting that something else was at work...

Dennis--I think that is the ESC temp--also out of whack though.

If you look at the last plot, the current started out around 60A (if I matched the colors correctly that is)! I think the catastrophe occurs when you see the current begin to rise again near the end. That's due to the magnets overheating and losing their magnetism. That means kV is rising, and allowing more current to flow. More current means more heat, and I guess something burned out then.

So my guess is that that motor got pretty hot.

I know that my currents (flying level laps), with a 4s battery are about 20A.

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2009, 09:06:56 AM »

Well ,What we got here!
Here are the pics and as U can c the stator & magnets had some contact. See the lump of
stuff on the stator. Of course this is from sloppy workmanship,Maybe that's why why it felt funny when I
turn it around and its makes more noise than the other motor I tried.

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2009, 01:42:51 PM »

Back from the LHS And I have a new victim

A Great Planes rim fire 32 I've made the first run W/O prop
And here's the graph. Im putting the prop on and running it in high Gov mode first. More graphs 2 follow.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2009, 02:22:38 PM »

Darrel,
Make sure you use a smaller prop if you are going to run this statically! Even at the correct running rpm, the static load tends to be somewhat high. Check the amps you are drawing. I am not sure what the motor is rated for, but it is best to creep up to the actual prop you think you want to use.

Archie Adamisin · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:14:35 PM »

Wow, I have tried to nuke a Turnigy SK's and I have failed at making them fail. I have several with several flights on them and they all perform fantastic. I don't have a SK 35-48-900, but I do have a SK 35-48-1100 that I fly on 4-6S in a quickie 500 with no issues. I bought this motor to race and not to stunt, but it does have quite a bit of torque. My 35-42-1000 has close to 200 flights on it and it shows no signs of use.

I would be very careful of running motors @ static for longer than 20-30 sconds with flying props on them. The static potential power of these motors is very high and can cause overheating and eventual failure. Proper ESC programming is also a must. The out-runner mode is for the small indoor out-runners that have high resistance. Our motors are fairly low resistance and they run better @ 12-16 htz PWM.

Looks to me that you had a bad motor from the start. I do check all of my motors before I run them. I look for loose solder connections and any interference with the magnets and stator assembly. I have yet to have an issue.

We have burned up motors over the last 3 years, but none have been Turnigy's. Especially SK motors. We have burned up Rim-Fires and Brodak SC motors.

I am very sorry to hear that you burned up a motor. I hope that you have better luck with the new one.

PS Contact Hobby City for a waranty replacement. They back their stuff up and I believe that SK motors have a waranty on them.

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:17:10 PM »

Now I have a problem,
I was running the new motor and everything seemed to be fine, I let things cool off between runs I used a smaller prop after the first run. 12x4 The motor was just barely warm 2 the touch so I connect a charged battery and now nothing .After checking connections,solider joints,different motor & swapped Esc's Still nothing just the four lipo beeps and that's it. And there are four slow beeps the batteries are all good according to the charger. Checked with a voltmeter, and they all read 16v. Here are the graphs from a few runs.

Archie Adamisin · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2009, 07:37:19 AM »

Just out of curiosity, did you check the timer to rx chord connection. Sounds like your not getting a zero signal for the controller to arm. I do this all the time. Will's timer has a black mark on it distinguishing wher the gound/black/brown wire is to go.

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:36:57 AM »

Other than the plug being a bit loose, How do I accomplish that ?
Thanks.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #22 on:** November 29, 2009, 09:27:06 AM »

I managed to "toast" JMP-2 timer a couple of years back. When I plugged it onto the cable, I misjudged and offset the connector by one pin. Since then I have always been very deliberate when plugging in the timer. Also try to avoid taking it off if possible. Reversing the connector I think is less deadly than what I did, but clearly it won't work. But at least you may not be zapped the timer if that's what is wrong.

So like Archie says, it sounds like you aren't getting a timer signal. I guess I would hook the timer up to a rc servo and receiver battery and see if the servo responds. Otherwise maybe the timer is broken.

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2009, 09:33:05 AM »

One point is I guess is what are you trying to do with your setup? It is fun to see the system work, but static runs are harder on the system than actual flying.

Of course I did the same thing as you are doing when I first began to use this stuff. However it is also a dangerous time for the components because it is easy to make hookup mistakes.

When I try to check out a timer/esc setup, I will often do it with no propeller at all. You don't need a prop to check out rpm settings and timer run lengths.

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2009, 09:39:32 AM »

Well that was my thought last night because that's what I done. Right now im looking at the timer and the only thing I see is some broken strands at the button. So for the time being Ill get another timer and try that.
Thanks,

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #25 on:** November 29, 2009, 10:26:53 AM »

Well Darrel, ask away! We all would like to help you avoid the mistakes that we made!

I at least try to make sure I have my eye glasses on when I plug in my timer now. On my JMP-2 I put a magic marker black dot on the pin that mates to the black (or brown) ground wire on the cable from the ESC.

On Will H's timers, I think he has a label or a mark on the ground wire side.

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 29, 2009, 11:13:32 AM »

Will,
That's right on the timer board there's a G next 2 the pin, But I have reversed the wiring before. It is less fatal than
missing a pin. That just came from a moment of

oh well, we do learn from our screw ups don't we?
Thanks again and I'll keep pluggin along

Alan Hahn · « **Reply #27 on:** November 29, 2009, 11:56:15 AM »

Just received a new copy of Will's catalog yesterday. There are a couple of other neat things that Will offers that are pretty nifty for helping setup things.
One thing is the TE-1 or the TE-2B throttle emulators. They let you dial in the throttle input. This is useful if you are testing your motor/ESC with governor low/high timing and really want to see what rpm you get as a function of throttle setting. The TE-2B gives a visual LCD readout of the pulse width. I already have a version of this (made by Astroflight) and it is what I use on the bench. A lot easier than fooling with the timer (most timers anyway!).

The second thing is related to the first. That is the PM-1---the "Poor Man's Oscilloscope. It hooks up to the timer and tells you what the pulse width it is putting out. I think this + the TE-1 are a nice combo. Together they would include the features of the TE-2B plus let you measure a timer output too.

These items help you debug problems.

Normally I would also include a Watt-Meter to tell you what current and power you are drawing from the battery. However since the ICE ESC will give you this (and more) it has become a little less necessary. However it does give you this info when the motor is running, while the ICE is now only available after the run--maybe a little late in some cases.

Author Topic: Ice 50 ESC Programing (Read 3130 times)

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn

Alan Hahn