Author Topic: IC to "E" With a new look! Lots of New Photos! (Read 25049 times)

Avaiojet · « **on:** February 10, 2014, 08:35:05 AM »

IC to the Big "E" With a new look?

Absolutely!

Well, inspired by so many modelers, to many to list,

I decided to do something about my interest in Electrics.

The New American is no longer. No loss there, that's for sure.

Here's the first hour, just last night, of the "ripout!"

Rudder gone!

Rail mounts gone!

Firewall gone!

Tank floor tank hatch gone!

And whatever else is in the way. Gone!!

I never liked the looks of The New American anyway. Honestly.

Weighed 30.5 oz. before the ripout. No gear, wheels, or elevator.

The model is the easy part, choosing the perfect setup is what I really have to concentrate on.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2014, 09:16:34 AM »

Now only 29 more days to finish, what a head start!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2014, 09:45:41 AM »

Larry,

Robert is like the Energiser Bunny.

I cannot compete with that.

He should have that Bunny decal on his rudder.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2014, 09:07:32 AM »

Someone mentioned battery packs that were about 105mm x 35mm x 35mm or there about. These were 2200 to 2500 packs.

I can't seem to find a pack that size?

I'm really limited with space.

Anyone know of battery packs this size, or smaller?

Thanks,

Charles

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2014, 09:25:18 AM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on February 11, 2014, 09:07:32 AM

Someone mentioned battery packs that were about 105mm x 35mm x 35mm or there about. These were 2200 to 2500 packs.

I can't seem to find a pack that size?

I'm really limited with space.

Anyone know of battery packs this size, or smaller?

Thanks,

Charles

The Brodak 4Sx2200 packs are that size.

Also, go to the Hobby City site, they show a lot of different packs with different sizes, I think it was the Zippy Lite 4Sx2500 was that same generic size. Not sure but I think the ThunderPower 4Sx2700's (older style) fit the bill.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2014, 10:51:13 AM »

Dennis,

Thanks for the reply.

I thought it was you that mentioned this, but wasn't sure. I just wrote down the measurements.

I haven't picked a motor yet, but the pack you mentioned, that 105mm is what I will use.

I was told not to purchase a battery pack until I was ready to use it?

Dennis, thanks again for the reply and info.

Charles

Avaiojet · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2014, 06:01:28 PM »

Motor choice is still in the works, but in the meantime, I did manage "to put a rudder on it!"

Sounds like "Beyonc'e" "Put a rudder on it!"

Not easy choosing a set-up, especially when you can't afford a mistake.

Needing a small sized battery pack doesn't help with motor choices. That 105mm that Dennis suggested is probably the choice.

Still would like to have a 2" spinner and an APC 12/6 pusher. Considering the Cobra 2820/14 or the 2820/12. Maybe.

Here's the old rudder and the new rudder.

New rudder has an offset and is removable. Case you want to add more offset. Or take it away.

Beyonc'e net worth, 350 million.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2014, 08:00:20 PM »

Charles:
Another small word of caution, usually the pack dimensions are for just the pack, the wiring harness ANd soldering ears adds some length. Depending on the install I allow about 4.5" (115mm) for a Brodak 4Sx2200 pack.

The pix you posted where your removed the beams; can you cut back the leading edge of the wing about 1" or so - then cap it off? That could score some extra room for the pack.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2014, 08:43:49 PM »

28 more DAYS more work less typing!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2014, 01:03:01 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on February 11, 2014, 08:00:20 PM

Charles:
Another small word of caution, usually the pack dimensions are for just the pack, the wiring harness ANd soldering ears adds some length. Depending on the install I allow about 4.5" (115mm) for a Brodak 4Sx2200 pack.

The pix you posted where your removed the beams; can you cut back the leading edge of the wing about 1" or so - then cap it off? That could score some extra room for the pack.

Dennis,

Good point, there's wires that I didn't consider. Thanks for that.

I'd be really nervous to cut that LE and box it. I believe I'll loose strength from cutting that LE, won't I?

If I built an electric model from scratch, I would take in consideration a second spar for that purpose. Probably recess back to the arm of the bellcrank, or as far as I could go, a spar to reach 3-4 ribs from center. I'm doing exactly this with that elliptical wing design.

I don't have much room in this stubby nose, I only have 7.5" from the LE to the prop thrust line.

Thanks for the reply

Charles

Avaiojet · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2014, 07:25:18 AM »

The motor has been ordered and I should have it in three days. Not much to do until I mount the firewall and the motor.

I did, however, remove the original bellcrank pushrod, a Dave brown/my megshift. Replaced it with a Tom Morris "ball and claw." Probably saved a gram.

Model weighs 32.3 oz., at the moment.
Motor weighs 4.94 oz.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2014, 12:51:46 PM »

Wow! 27 more days till it flys👏 🏆 ✈️

Avaiojet · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2014, 02:33:23 PM »

Quote from: Larry Wong on February 13, 2014, 12:51:46 PM

Wow! 27 more days till it flys ✈️

Larry,

I can't get this thing done in 27 days.

I'll progress, but not finish the model.

It'll take 27 days for me to decide the scheme.

Edited for spelling.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2014, 06:19:59 PM »

Still waiting for the motor.

In the meantime, I decided to make the canopy. There has to be a canopy. I didn't have any blue or pink foam, so I decided to whittle a canopy out of wood.

"Because I can." A line from the movie "Seabiscuit." One of my all time favorites.

A bit daffy, the canopy lines on the Mig-3, but I like it. So I decided to use something similar on this model.

Of which BTW I have to come up with a new name for? The New American is out!

This canopy is a tad larger than the Mig-3's. It will get hollowed, I'll get it as thin as I can. It will be painted black.

55chevr · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2014, 08:53:58 PM »

I like the look of that canopy ... I am inspired to do one to replace the plastic one that is on the "Tweener" I am rebuilding.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2014, 06:01:48 AM »

Quote from: 55chevr on February 13, 2014, 08:53:58 PM

I like the look of that canopy ... I am inspired to do one to replace the plastic one that is on the "Tweener" I am rebuilding.

I have no idea what a "Tweener" is.

Would you like a JPEG of the outline?

You could trace it on your monitor.

Maybe the canopy design will catch on.

And watch, someone else will get credit for the design.

Thanks for the reply.

55chevr · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2014, 09:09:08 AM »

Tweener is a mid sized Big Jim Pattern Master ...

Avaiojet · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2014, 09:21:02 AM »

Chev,

If this is the stage your model is at, now would be the time to make changes.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2014, 09:37:05 AM »

Here's the canopy hollowed.

Weighed 30 grams before removing any inside material.

Down to 11 grams now with some more material still to be removed. It's long, the back has to be trimmed some. Not sure where yet?

I'll get this thing X-Rayed to determine consistency in wall thickness.

55chevr · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2014, 10:49:21 AM »

The photo isn't my Tweener. It is Sina's. The one I am rebuilding is this plane's older brother. It has a plastic canopy but the area needs some stiffening. If I remove the wood floor and add a hollowed wood canopy the weight penalty will be negligible.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2014, 11:22:55 AM »

Quote from: 55chevr on February 14, 2014, 10:49:21 AM

The photo isn't my Tweener. It is Sina's. The one I am rebuilding is this plane's older brother. It has a plastic canopy but the area needs some stiffening. If I remove the wood floor and add a hollowed wood canopy the weight penalty will be negligible.

Chev,

I just cut my canopy back, removed .5" from the end, plus fine tuned the inside. It now weighs 9 grams. I'll shave a bit more.

I also removed material from the inside of the model.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2014, 11:54:51 AM »

Well, here I am making things even more difficult for myself.

Removed all the balsa from the 1/16" ply doublers. Now that there will be a spinner, these doublers will get reshaped and some material removed, and , obviously, some added.

Bottom photo shows the motor mount drawn which I have to cut along with the plywood nose piece. A 2.25" spinner will be used, clockwise rotation.

No laser cutting here.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2014, 08:26:06 AM »

Moving along at a slow but steady pace.

If I knew more about electric model construction, I could move a bit faster.

Construction is a bit different than that of IC models.

Got my mount cut and laminated, two pieces, 1/8" and 3/32. left and right sides will have somewhat of a flat. If I measured correctly.

These pin-ups are made of clear transfer paper, I've had this tracing technique posted before. Not really creative, but the backs are sticky and they stay in place while drawing ink lines. Drew the formers in my not CAD program.

Hopefully, these will be the start of my nose formers.

I do have to add noches for the left and right rails. I'll have rails but not as beefy as IC rails, .25" x .5" is what I'll use. Keep the nose moment stiff.

Also, the top part of these formers have to become a hatch to get at the "E" gear. Gotta keep that in mind.

Stole this from a Bob Hunt photograph. Actually stole a bit more, thank you Bob Hunt!

Combination square in use getting the front balsa pieces in perfect alignment on the vertical. I'll have one degree offset.

If I'm doing something incorrect, don't be shy, just say so.

I'm also removing bits of material from inside the model, trying to bring the weight down, gram by gram.

RC Storick · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2014, 12:59:13 PM »

Not sure what the 29 days thing is about but if you think the canopy is light enough mine in that state usually weigh 2 to 3 grams.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2014, 01:28:18 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on February 16, 2014, 12:59:13 PM

Not sure what the 29 days thing is about but if you think the canopy is light enough mine in that state usually weigh 2 to 3 grams.

I'll get it lighter, but I bet it's longer than yours.

Apples for apples, I just measured the canopy.

6"L x 2.25"W x 1.675"H

I will remove more material from the thickness and, I have to do a tapered trim on the bottom.

Bet I'll get it down to 6 grams.

More if I put a layer of silk on the thing, then I can remove material almost to the silk. Probably get another gram off of it.

RC Storick · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2014, 02:39:33 PM »

It's the choice of wood.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #26 on:** February 16, 2014, 03:16:03 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on February 16, 2014, 02:39:33 PM

It's the choice of wood.

Where do you get this helium wood?

RC Storick · « **Reply #27 on:** February 16, 2014, 04:51:39 PM »

Stunt Hangar hobby

Avaiojet · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2014, 03:48:20 PM »

Here are my nose formers and rails cut. Drilled all the corners to save time.

55chevr · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2014, 05:35:41 PM »

would be tough to make formers lighter than that.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2014, 07:33:15 AM »

Quote from: 55chevr on February 17, 2014, 05:35:41 PM

would be tough to make formers lighter than that.

I cudda used balsa.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2014, 06:24:17 PM »

Well, I picked up my 3mm allen head bolts today, four of them.

16mm long, for mounting the motor. I also picked up four more at 14mm in length. SS is all they had.

One of them will fit. The motor mount, front mounted, is 7/32" thick.

Debating as to putting in the mount or retro-fitting the wing mounted gear first.

Not looking forward to either one.

Conflicts, go figure

BTW. I need a name change for The New American, seeing it's not TNA anymore.

And I had such a great scheme for that model.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2014, 10:47:41 AM »

Even though my day is a busy one, I decided to work on the retro-fit wing mounted gear.

Especially now that Gerald Arana's retro-fit was fresh in my mind.

Jerry, thanks for those photos and your effort to help.

Jerry posted photos of his project, converting a "TF" Nobler to a "Brock" Nobler. A retro-fit for his wing mounted gear was one of his tasks.

You can see Jerry's photos at the "Retro-fit" gear Thread.

Obvious difference was I choose to mount my gear rail blocks against the spar.

Here are all my parts for the outboard wing. Inboard wing is the same except for lead out holes. I'll make some holes in these doublers to save a few grams.

No "T" bolts/blind nuts in the photo, becaus I didn't have any. I'll see if Home Depot has them?

This "nameless" model, nameless because it's no longer The New American, weighs 740 grams at the moment. Without the gear pictured parts.

If I had the building of this model to do over, I would have used 1/16" sheeting instead of 3/32". Could have had a substantial weight savings.

"I just love the look of wing mounted gear in the morning."

Avaiojet · « **Reply #33 on:** February 24, 2014, 06:29:32 PM »

Chipping away at tasks.

Still on the gear rail blocks.

Jerry, here ya go, look farmiliar?

Nothing complicated and nothing that hasn't been done before, at least similar.

Generally the whole rib is a ply rib. I just added ply doublers.

I also added a .25" sq. stiffener to the 3/32" sheeting. Give the hard wood rail more material to glue against. The rail isn't glued, it needs blind nuts.

Aluminum tube accepts the 1/8" steel gear leg with no slop.

No blind nuts, so that's it till tomorrow.

After the gear the motor mount is next.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #34 on:** February 27, 2014, 09:16:44 AM »

I found a set of .125" wire gear bent for another model. First time I took a 90 degree bend out before. The length was only 4.25" and I need at least 5" possibly 5.5". I'll bend that last 90 when I determine tire size and what I'll need for prop clearance.

As you can see, I opted for the invisible gear blocks, they weigh nothing.

Epoxied the motor mount, so that is now in place. There are no invisible motor mounts available that I know of.

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #35 on:** February 27, 2014, 11:09:47 AM »

Charles,

That is starting to look mighty fine! Keep up the good work!

Hopefully you are a faster finisher than I am..........

Cheers, Jerry

Avaiojet · « **Reply #36 on:** February 27, 2014, 02:36:16 PM »

Quote from: Gerald Arana on February 27, 2014, 11:09:47 AM

Charles,

That is starting to look mighty fine! Keep up the good work!

Hopefully you are a faster finisher than I am..........

Cheers, Jerry

Chant!

"Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry."

Things are slow because I'm painting bathrooms, hanging 3/8" shower glass and building cabinets for closets.

I'm spread out thin. Instead of having an hour here and there, I only have minutes. Still trying to get it done.

"Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry."

Avaiojet · « **Reply #37 on:** February 27, 2014, 04:14:00 PM »

I don't have miniature hobby tools. I make do with what I have.

Rail installation.

Don't think for one NY minute that holes don't remove weight.

It's only the holes that I make that don't remove weight.

These holes took a gram + off each one of my rails.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #38 on:** February 27, 2014, 06:28:55 PM »

"Captain, there be rails here." A line from the movie, The Voyage Home.

Oops! I think it was whales not rails.

Anyway, glued my rails in place and another dress rehearsal with the motor in place. Washers this time.

I'll fit the formers next.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #39 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:02:56 AM »

I have good news and bad news. I'll get to that in a minute.

As you can see, my formers are in place but not glued, all snug as a bug in a rug. I have stuff to do, so they will be removed agan and again.

Not sure yet about the LE former because I have to fit a battery pack in that area, this former could be changed or eliminated?

At the moment, the model still remains nameless, but I have a few ideas. "Bird of Pray," " The Predator," just to name a few which could work.

OK!

The good news is, I will continue working on this model as often as I can. And I expect to finish it.

My first big "E" model, so there are challanges, plus, extra work considering it's a retro-fit from an IC model designed as The New American. So, goodbye to the New American.

The bad news.

The bad news is, I may go "Klingon Cloaking Device." In Klingon Cloaking Mode there will be no more photos. Text only and probably not much of it.

Photo taking and placement does take a bit of time and I could be using that valuable time to work on the model. Time management.

It seems there's not a great deal of interest in the Thread, so Klingon Cloaking Mode is likely. Cloaking may or my not be engaged. We'll see.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #40 on:** March 01, 2014, 06:30:31 PM »

OK Don't forget the battery & ESC- Timer, KIll plug, it has to fit in and out....

Avaiojet · « **Reply #41 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:35:05 PM »

Quote from: Larry Wong on March 01, 2014, 06:30:31 PM

OK Don't forget the battery & ESC- Timer, KIll plug, it has to fit in and out....

Larry,

Thanks so much for the reply. What a surprise!

I did fit the battery. I can get it in there at a 45 degree angle sitting on the LE, half of the battery above the wing CL and the other half below the wing CL.

When I drew the design change for electric, I planned for the battery to fit this way, so I got that covered.

My battery choice is the Hyperion 4S/14.8V 25C 2500mAh. It's the smallest one I could find.

How much room will I need for those other items, I have absolutely no idea?

Wish I had sheeted the wing with 1/16" balsa, but at the time, I thought I was taking/getting good advice. Maybe so?

Model weighs 662 grams, as of today.

Still have sheeting on the fuselage, some above and some below.

I expect to trim a few more grams off the canopy. In fact, I have to remove a portion of the bottom of it. The canopy started out as a plug actually. I was going to pull one but changed my mind. I don't want to mess around with a clear canopy.

I just remounted the motor and glued cut blocks around the spinner area. A bit more weight.

I need one more former then I can sheet the fuselage top and bottom.

Thanks again for your reply.

Charles

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #42 on:** March 01, 2014, 10:42:31 PM »

I really think before you commit to the fuse shape you should test fit the other components,, ( to do this you will need them in hand, I promise that relying on a drawing is a mistake) the connectors, plugs and wire are a real issue.
if you play now, you have the option to revise the fuse shape

Avaiojet · « **Reply #43 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:55:38 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on March 01, 2014, 10:42:31 PM

I really think before you commit to the fuse shape you should test fit the other components,, ( to do this you will need them in hand, I promise that relying on a drawing is a mistake) the connectors, plugs and wire are a real issue.
if you play now, you have the option to revise the fuse shape

Mark,

Thanks for that heads up and your reply.

You are 100% correct, I should have the items on hand.

I haven't decided on what to use as far as product brand, I'm still researching, looking for small items.

I have looked at a bunch of setups. You don't get measurements in photos, but one can realize a fuselage ID width of 2" to 2.125", + or -.

I have trunk space and the hatch lid is a dome. These things are on wires, so I'm thinking, left right, forward backwards, and over under.

I'm hoping I'm OK.

I'm not sure if the wiring can be shortened? That could create room.

Nice hearing from you Mark, and thanks for the reply.

Charles

55chevr · « **Reply #44 on:** March 02, 2014, 07:59:03 AM »

The wires can be shortened.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #45 on:** March 02, 2014, 03:17:51 PM »

Quote from: 55chevr on March 02, 2014, 07:59:03 AM

The wires can be shortened.

Chev,

Thanks for the reply.

About making wires shorter. I thought with some applications, or Brands, this was a no no. Had something to do with voltage going to the motor? I think?

I do see all the ends are available as is plugs.

Charles

Avaiojet · « **Reply #46 on:** March 03, 2014, 04:38:51 PM »

I cannot believe how far I've gone with this model in just the last day. When the balsa flies and the tools collect, you know you're in the zone!

The Twilight Zone.

Most of the fuselage sheeting is completed, as is the nose and spinner area. I do have my "T" nuts so the gear rails are now going to happen.

Here's a couple of photos of the models progress.

Unfortunately, as you can see, or I should say not see, the model is still in Klingon Cloaking Mode.

Charles

Avaiojet · « **Reply #47 on:** March 04, 2014, 06:33:03 PM »

Well, I took the model out of Klingon Cloaking Mode just long enough to take a shot of the grill opening.

This should suck enough air.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #48 on:** March 06, 2014, 04:03:48 PM »

Still in Klingon Cloke Mode so there's no reason for a photo.

But, I did trim 3 grams off the canopy.

Might get a photo later.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #49 on:** March 06, 2014, 07:08:08 PM »

I disengaged the Klingon Cloaking Mode just long enough to get these two shots of the canopy.

I certainly spent a great deal of time designing the Mig-3 canopy. I wanted a really different look and more importantly, I didn't want the canopy to look like a shelf canopy. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Anyway, I mentioned I would use the same canopy design on this nameless model. And I did.

Yea it was a plug and I was lazy. Pahutie! I spit on clear canopies, well, just my own.

Extra work I don't need at the moment. 8 grams now glued in place.

Not sure if this ship will stay together going in and out of Klingon Cloaking Mode? I should choose and stay there.