Author Topic: I need a sponsor (Read 3386 times)

TDM · « **on:** February 19, 2010, 09:11:43 AM »

I have been plagued by the lack of finances necessary to finish this project.

HB~>I can easily lay out in the mold another plane since it is all molded composite construction but I can not progress because I do not have the finances.

:!This plane is made using CAD CAM technology. It is all made using the CAD and the components are all made in CNC machine.

I have the access to the CNC but do not have the money for the materials to finish.

The quality of this will surpass anything out there on the flight line.

What have I accomplished so far is:

CAD design, Horizontal Stab and stab tips, flaps and elevators, the fuse mold is done I just need to pour the mold. All the design and manufacturing sequencing is done.

What remains to be done?
Items remaining wig molds wing tip molds gear molds miscellaneous CNC parts.

What I need is 800$ to finish the plane.
What will this get you?

A brand new all take apart all hollow molded wings stab fuse carbon gear dedicated electric plane built from ground up. All molds are made on CNC machine plus all components are also done the same way to achieve an incredible fit and repeatability within .002in. This plane will be ready for paint and add your choice of power plant.

Think about it like you will buy an absolute top of the line plane (better than Yatshenko) for 800$.

The goal is to complete by the end of September. Most likely it will be much faster than that.

So what do you say?
Is anyone out there who wants to help me?

Thank you Dorin

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2010, 09:07:19 PM »

how about some specs. a plan, 3-view etc - target weights and the like - the more info the better on this sort of thing -

TDM · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2010, 04:31:14 PM »

Quote from: Wynn Robins on February 19, 2010, 09:07:19 PM

how about some specs. a plan, 3-view etc - target weights and the like - the more info the better on this sort of thing -

You are absolutely right. Here is the information:

Span 62in
Length 52.85
Weight 54oz (my goal is to use .015 braided wires on this plane)
Wing area 660 square in

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2010, 05:58:49 PM »

Nice looking bird,
is there a design reason for the dihedral in the stab? just curious,,

TDM · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2010, 09:47:05 AM »

Yes there is one reason for it.
As the offset between the wing center line and the stab center line draw apart there is a distinct handling improvement. The model will track a lot better and it has a good lock after transitions in the square maneuvers.

I added the dihedral to get the stab to fly in cleaner air.

Also another benefit is that it is more effective which means less deflection for a certain response which equals less drag and thus you loose less speed in the corner.

Windy experienced the same trend. ~~In the 20 pointer Cardinal he had a tough time getting it to track~~ but in the later designs witch culminated with the A26 the stab was high and it had a dihedral too and Windy said that A26 had the best lock in the square maneuvers and the tracking was good.

I had planes that where hunting so I am giving this design the best chance that this will not happen.

This info I got from one of windy videos. Jose corrected me and thank you sir. Anyhow windy was commenting on how bad one of his earlier birds was tracking because the offset between the CL of the wing and stab was close together and how well the A26 was handling and tracking. The major difference was the horizontal stab position.

Dorin

linheart smith · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2010, 01:12:12 PM »

I would love to own a Yatshenko style take apart that looks great and flys well.

TDM · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2010, 04:12:48 PM »

He sels his for about 2500$. I will give one away for 800$. And I belive it will be a better quality.

Dorin

jose modesto · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2010, 05:22:40 PM »

Dorin. just a little history on stab placing as it relates to Windy and the 20 point Cardinal.
Big Jim designed the ST60 Patternmaster in 1977, three others Pm's preceded the 60 ship starting in 1971/2. The stab is placed 2.5" above the centerline of the wing. Windy's Cardinal, the 20 pointer is based on Big Jim's PM60 design, the 20 pointer was repainted to the green color, BJ name for this ship (the green wienie or toxic avenger) Green model Nat's2ND pl 1991 the 20 pointer was a 4Th place Nat's finisher.
Windy started building Big Jim designs in 1980 BJ designed with the stab at this height in order to have stab fly in clean air. One item that was discovered was that elevator needed a little down elevator in order to get inside and outside turns to be equal. Al Rabe also had the same results in his Sea Fury as the stab is placed high over (sacale location)the wing also needing down elevator.
Dorin, you are comparing a model that has never been built or flown to the Yatzenko's models that have 2 Nat's wins,a second and a 5Th,multiple FAI UAS team placings F2B top 10 finishes and stating that your model is better, i think you should build and compete with this unproven design before you compare yours with the Multy Nat's winning model.(disclosure I own 3 Sharks so I'm a little bias )
some photos of Windy and Big Jim stab placing prior to the Cardinal 20 pointer.Photo#1 Big Jim original PatternMaster Photo #2 Windy with the BJ900 And Black Sunday.Black Sunday was the best BJ that was ever built,this ship missed the Nat's do to a horn failure. Added note Ted Fancher on his final Final Edition also raised the stab 1/2" in order to solve a hunting issue with the Trivial Pursuit's. Last photo is of a SHARK. BTW the Shark is an inline design go figure. Good luck Dorin.
Jose Modesto

Matt Colan · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2010, 07:11:33 PM »

Quote from: jose modesto on February 21, 2010, 05:22:40 PM

Dorin. just a little history on stab placing as it relates to Windy and the 20 point Cardinal.
Big Jim designed the ST60 Patternmaster in 1977, three others Pm's preceded the 60 ship starting in 1971/2. The stab is placed 2.5" above the centerline of the wing. Windy's Cardinal, the 20 pointer is based on Big Jim's PM60 design, the 20 pointer was repainted to the green color, BJ name for this ship (the green wienie or toxic avenger) Green model Nat's2ND pl 1991 the 20 pointer was a 4Th place Nat's finisher.
Windy started building Big Jim designs in 1980 BJ designed with the stab at this height in order to have stab fly in clean air. One item that was discovered was that elevator needed a little down elevator in order to get inside and outside turns to be equal. Al Rabe also had the same results in his Sea Fury as the stab is placed high over (sacale location)the wing also needing down elevator.
Dorin, you are comparing a model that has never been built or flown to the Yatzenko's models that have 2 Nat's wins,a second and a 5Th,multiple FAI UAS team placings F2B top 10 finishes and stating that your model is better, i think you should build and compete with this unproven design before you compare yours with the Multy Nat's winning model.(disclosure I own 3 Sharks so I'm a little bias )
some photos of Windy and Big Jim stab placing prior to the Cardinal 20 pointer.Photo#1 Big Jim original PatternMaster Photo #2 Windy with the BJ900 And Black Sunday.Black Sunday was the best BJ that was ever built,this ship missed the Nat's do to a horn failure. Added note Ted Fancher on his final Final Edition also raised the stab 1/2" in order to solve a hunting issue with the Trivial Pursuit's. Last photo is of a SHARK. BTW the Shark is an inline design go figure. Good luck Dorin.
Jose Modesto

Didn't Windy then build another BJ in something like 5 days, make the top 5 and win the concours at the Nats?

TDM · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2010, 06:16:34 AM »

I was going on the flying field and I was swapping planes I flew their Twisters etc and they where flying my SV and guess what? They where saying that I did not know that my plane can do that. And they also flew my plane just the same as they where flying theirs before.
Most planes at the world championship and the planes at high level at the NATS championship are very good and very closely matched in performance however it is the skill of the pilot that makes the difference.
Back to your comment that Yatshenko o is the best in the world think twice.
Given that I do believe however that the Shark Is the best performing ARF take apart (portable in a small suitcase) for someone who travels on the plane to contests etc and does not want to bother too much with building their own model.

I am betting here that if you swap your plane with Windy Fitzgerald Paul and the like they will still whoop your but just the same.

This is my two cents here. It is about getting to fly better and improve.

First you can not improve if the plane you fly does not fly better than you can.
Second a good pilot will take a bad plane and fly around the bad characteristics of the plane.

More info:
The stab I have is 1.25 root above wing centerline and 1.75 at tip above center line which is well within the limits that most of us have on our planes.

TDM · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2010, 06:20:30 AM »

Jose I think you have the wrong plane> the one I am talking about is the yellow one Windy flew in the early 90”s with a ST60 piped.

jose modesto · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:42:11 AM »

Dorin the yellow plane with pipe was the 1992 model it was powered by ST51 with a wrap around header it ran out of fuel in the clover and crashed that model finished i think 21st. i have the plans for this model the stab is actually 1 1/8" above the centerline of the wing, not as you stated.

Dorin i responded to you as your reference was the cardinal 20 pointer that model was a ST60 based on the Big Jim pattern master with the stab height as listed 2.5" Dorin a appreciate your correction on your previous post.

Dorin as to flying other flyer's models. Windy at the 2007 Team Trials allowed me to fly the TESTAROSA as my Yatzenko SHARK was lost by the airline what a wonderfull model,tracked well and had a killer corner to bad i dint have a day of pratice with this model as i could of made some noise with it.I'm always thankfull to Windy for opening his home and above all his toolbox since 1980.
Dorin After flying the TESTAROSA I came home and designed and built the IMPACT MASTER about the same size as the TESTAROSA with my own styling.

Dorin at no time did i say the Shark is the best model. Dorin all i said is comparing your not built model and unproven design to a proven model and saying that your model is better,i say first build fly and prove the concept before comparing your model to a proven design with a considerable national and international winning record. (Dorin again a have a bias to the Shark as i own and fly them)
Dorin i hope your comment of not building your own planes is not addressed to me.
Dorin I also remember your superb engineering with your take apart model at the Nat's. Dorin as i recalled i was the one holding your inflight detachable wing as it came cleanly of your model Windy has the video.LOL
Photo attached of the repainted 20 pointer that you referenced in error in your earlier post i accept your correction

Photo of the Impact Master
photo My PatterMaster 2002 Nats Advance 2nd pl. 17 appearance points
Photo #3 caption on Windy plans
Photo #4 Windy's repainted 20 pointer when it won the 20 points it es red and white

TDM · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:15:24 AM »

Dorin I hope your comment of not building your own planes is not addressed to me.

Not at all. All I was saying is that if I was a top flyer and did not want to bother a whole lot with building and I knew that I was going to travel by plane or car and go compete The Shark seems to be the best choice out there.

Sure I made mistakes in the past. By the way that plane was repaired and it still flies today. My dumb mistake was that when I put the Aluminum inserts in the wing I did not rough the aluminum before I glued it in place. That is all fixed now and I think I learned my lesson and by the way the hardware did not brake.

Thanks for the reminder. I am sure we all have stories like that.

The new plane has this system completely redesigned and I will make a test and make sure that it holds and will compare it with standard wing design. Believe me I learn from my mistakes.

When I finish it I will send it to you to see what you say about it. I would appreciate your impute.

I like the pics you put in. And also I appreciate what you did in the Composite impact thread and most of all thank you for your advice.

jose modesto · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2010, 12:13:51 PM »

Dorin my first plug in wing and tail model had a similar episode.
i was so happy with this model flying ability that i called Jim Damerel and got him to come to the park to watch my most perfect model fly.
I had model on flight line as Jim pulled up in his car. in order to impress my buddy i fire up the PA65 and let the model go.

I start the pattern and get to the inside square, at this point I'm happy my new model is flying great. first corner,second third ,first square, second square first corner great second corner outboard wing assumes a perpendicular angle to inboard wing and pointing down. Dorin i learned more about aerodynamics in the next two laps than at most other times. now i give down and the inboard wing and tail create lift and the outboard wing spins the model in a Cork screw now its coming straight at me in a circular pattern and its up wind. Ultimately the models crashes 5 feet from center of circle. Dorin you are not alone in the learning curb. My model did not survive.
Jose modesto

RandySmith · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2010, 12:29:08 PM »

Dorin
Are you still in Atlanta?

Randy

Jose do I see a Stiletto in that fuse shot?

TDM · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2010, 01:32:30 PM »

Quote from: RandySmith on February 22, 2010, 12:29:08 PM

Dorin
Are you still in Atlanta?

Randy

Jose do I see a Stiletto in that fuse shot?

Randy yes I am still in Atlanta. I am in Roswell to be more precise.

No there is no Stiletto in that fuse. I guess if you get the canopy and move it forward 6in etc it would resemble a bit.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2010, 02:48:16 PM »

Quote from: Dorin Morosanu on February 22, 2010, 06:16:34 AM

Back to your comment that Yatshenko o is the best in the world think twice.
Given that I do believe however that the Shark Is the best performing ARF take apart (portable in a small suitcase) for someone who travels on the plane to contests etc and does not want to bother too much with building their own model.

I am betting here that if you swap your plane with Windy Fitzgerald Paul and the like they will still whoop your but just the same.

I have known Capt. Fitzgerald to get beat by a Shark while he was flying a world champion's plane (details omitted for orneriness).

I don't think that wing wake is causing a problem that is getting fixed by putting the stab an inch or two above the wing. Take Javafoil or Profili and fiddle with it a little to see what streamline hits the tail at what angle for different flight conditions. I do suspect (thanks to Igor) that the laminar-turbulent transition points can move around causing hunting, and you can sometimes luck out and find a stab position for a given airplane where the transition points stay put. I don't know how to find a tail location and configuration that works analytically-- not without a bunch of work, anyhow. My solution is to let somebody else do a lot of experimenting and copy his result.

TDM · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2010, 05:40:08 AM »

Gentleman I am pleased to announce that I have a Sponsor.
I will soon post a build thread in the Electric Stunt Forum.

Thank you all for your help and advice

Dorin

linheart smith · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2010, 10:16:32 AM »

I look forward to seeing the completed model with the thought of purchasing one for myself.

RandySmith · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2010, 11:19:03 AM »

having a high stab will NOT assure that your plane will not hunt.
I have flown inline planes that hunt
I have flown inline planes that track on rails

I have flown High stab placed planes that hunt and High stab planes that track very well. The placement will not assure anything to do with non hunting by itself.

There are many many reasons why planes hunt, You really need to make sure of what your doing and why

I have even seen things as weird as an engine and prop change cure a hunting plane

Regards
Randy

TDM · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2010, 07:15:15 AM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on February 22, 2010, 02:48:16 PM

I have known Capt. Fitzgerald to get beat by a Shark while he was flying a world champion's plane (details omitted for orneriness).

Would that be at the Brazilian NATS by any chance

Howard Rush · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2010, 06:54:37 PM »

Well, it might have been in Brazil.

Congratulations on getting a sponsor. Sponsorship is important for top-level stunt. I have long been sponsored by the wife of the guy who builds my airplanes.