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Author Topic: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos  (Read 1273 times)

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« on: August 30, 2022, 08:26:19 AM »
While wandering around the "Battery University" site I came across a posting titled, "BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries"  A link to the article is posted below

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries


KEY INFORMATION in this article is that a peak charge is a stressful event for a Lipo cell that defines its cycle life.  Knowing this leads to a dirt simple method to greatly extend the lifetime charge cycles for our Lipos.  All we have to do is to charge them to a slightly lower peak voltage.  What really caught my eye is that lowering the peak charge by only .1V per cell can DOUBLE the lifetime charge cycles for a Lipo pack!  The table showing the effect of lower peak voltage and battery life is copied and shown below.  (please forgive the miss aligned columns)

CHARGE LEVEL*           DISCHARGE CYCLES            AVAILABLE STORED ENERGY **
    (V/CELL)   

     [4.30]                            [150–250]                              [110–115%]
      4.25                             200–350                                     105–110%
      4.20                             300–500                                       100%
      4.15                             400–700                                       90–95%
      4.10                           600–1,000                                   85–90%
      4.05                            850–1,500                                   80–85%
      4.00                           1,200–2,000                                 70–75%
      3.90                           2,400–4,000                                 60–65%
      3.80                              See note                                  35–40%
      3.70                              See note                              30% and less
Table 4: Discharge cycles and capacity as a function of charge voltage limit

I have only started dabbling with this approach, so my results are limited - but promising.  For example I have a Classic airplane I am flying we 3Sx3500 packs.  When peaked to 12.6V (4.2V/cell) it uses around 2665 mah per flight.  I recently flew it with the packs charged to 12.3V (4.1V/cell)  and usage (predictably) increased by 96mah to 2761 mah.  However, end of flight voltage of the pack was 11.1V which is of course nominal for a 3S pack.  That sounds like nearly zero added stress on the battery due to a too-low voltage state.  I also use these packs another lightweight airplane that only uses 1900 mah per flight - the lower voltage charge will be a no-brainer there!

I was able to set the peak charging voltage to 4.1 by a dirt simple means; when I set my chargers to Li-Ion (instead of Li-Poly) the charging peak changes to 4.1V/cell instead of 4.2V/cell  (I like simple!)


Most folks I have talked to are flying with some excess in their battery capacity - it only makes sense for electric (or glow for that matter) set-ups to NOT fly right at their limits.  Since we fly with less than peak power for our power systems, always fly the same speeds and duration we can very accurately repeat our battery usage and determine if lower peak voltage will work for us.  If that applies to your case, then consider taking advantage of the reduced peak charging strategy to reduce the stress and extend the life of your lipos.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2022, 11:07:13 AM »
Does this also apply to cell phones and hand power tools? D>K
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2022, 11:25:22 AM »
Does this also apply to cell phones and hand power tools? D>K

Hi Doc
The answer is yes, BUT since those devices come with dedicated peak chargers it would be hard to implement.

In the article I showed, the author talked about how Cell phones are usually charged to their peak, because most folks want the longest possible extended charge, and that cell phones have their own "planned obsolescence"  which, curiously, is about the same as the life cycle of the battery!

In contrast, the article states that electric cars are designed to be charged at something less than the maximum peak because it is recognized that battery replacement in an EV is prohibitively expensive, and that it behooves everybody to help the batteries last as long as possible.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2022, 11:47:56 AM »
I have been using a less than full charge for some time, when the capacity allows.  I also had found Battery University.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/calculated-or-stated-battery-capacity/msg462558/#msg462558

The number of cycles goes up with the lower charge as you noted but may be difficult to demonstrate without a controlled experiment and a lot of cycles.  Say 2 sets of batteries and one set charged to 4.2v always, and the other set charges to a lower voltage and compare the cycles at end of life.  But, in reality, the ability to undercharge may be lost as the capacity falls with age and usage.  I found that I could under charge new batteries and have enough capacity to fly and stay above 20% discharge for a while, and then aging and use lowers the capacity and I finally have to go to full charge to have 20% at the end.  I found a reference to use in military here they were able to undercharge and greatly increase number of cycles.  Most of us use small batteries to save weight so can't undercharge much, or for very long into the life cycles. Similarly, low charge rates are helpful and stress batteries less, so reason to plan ahead and charge at low rates instead suddenly needing to charge at high rate to be ready to fly.

Some cell phone batteries will slow charge and try to stop full charges.  I found a replacement battery for my cellphone that touted its charge algorithms as a way to prolong battery cycles.

Most flyers eventually decide that a few less cycles of battery use is made up for by convenience.  My charger will allow me to use a set up the charge limit at 0.005V increments and I may only charge to say 4.18, but it is just as easy and convenient as 4.2v once set.  I routinely get over 100 actual counted cycles/pack with Zippy or Thunder Power, but that may not be better than others.  I set the cut off down to where I have 20 - 21% left after a flight, and then bump up the charge limit voltage to keep the 20% as the capacity decreases.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 05:26:41 PM by Fred Underwood »
Fred
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Offline TDM

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2022, 01:44:09 PM »
I already do that because I have tons of head room. I could go to the 4.1V but that means I end up with 30 percent in the battery and I wand to have piece of mind that I don't have a surprise.
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Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2022, 05:05:16 PM »
Good information. Is there any of the current top-quality charges that would allow setting the final charge level? Is this something that charging rate as an impact on - i.e. if you charge at 1C or 2C vs 5C could you get a similar result on cell life? 

Best,   DennisT

Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2022, 05:25:57 PM »
The PowerLab 6 and 8 are great, but not currently being sold new.  Used are available.  Increment drops are 0.005v.

The TP Quad chargers allow increments of 0.01v.  Many chargers do as Dennis noted, down to to 4.1v set as LiIon charger, but you may need 4.15 or 4.17 for example to have enough left at the flight end.

The TP Quad chargers are easy to use and are reasonable.  You can charge 4 batteries, each with its own "charger" and balance as opposed to parallel charge.

By specifications, the TP1225HVC charger is similar to the Cellpro PowerLab chargers, but I they haven't been available for a long enough time to know about quality.  Of course TP has a reputation for quality.
Fred
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2022, 05:50:19 PM »
I mistakenly charged my flight set (4-5s 2800's) using Li-Ion and didn't have time to recharge using Li-Po.  As a result my cells showed 97% or thereabouts.  Flew and noticed zero difference.  Ending headroom was 28% instead of the normal 32%.  I am going to default my charger to Li-Ion from now on.  Astounding difference if it works.

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Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2022, 07:07:09 PM »
From the table in the original post above, and from my experience with various cutoff voltages, 4.10v is only about 90%. or less.  Check the voltage after about 30 minutes off charge and see what the rested voltage and capacity is.  Also, the capacity may have dropped some with age and use, if that is applicable.
Fred
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2022, 08:01:50 AM »
Thanks for feedback, interesting that some folks are already doing this, on purpose or accidently!  Couple other things that probably apply:

* ALWAYS balance charge, that controls the Volts/cell.  Do not want to use a simple charging mode than can allow one cell to go to 4.2V and the one next to it stopping at 4.0V

* Personally, I do not believe meters that give percentage of remaining charge.  I only believe actual charge data - that is, how many mAh it takes to restore the charge.  If you are running near the capacity limit of your packs, then this might not be a viable plan for you.

* I speculate this might be a problem with active timer systems IF you are using a flat pitch prop running high RPM, AND/OR smallish motor, AND/OR with a lower than ideal kV AND relying on big power-up bumps.  It might result in bumping the upper RPM limit (i.e., commanding 100% throttle) more often.

* As Fred noted as packs age this might become harder to do. BUT, the whole idea is to SLOW DOWN the aging of the packs!  I am flying some older packs for which this may not work.


I am going to reset my chargers to the Li-Ion mode and start doing this routinely - and see how it works!
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: How to DOUBLE the Life of your Lipos
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2022, 10:02:12 AM »
Thanks Denny for the info. I’m all about getting more life from our batteries.
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