Spent the last few days reading 'Gettin all AMP'ed up' nearly @ the point of overload but feel ready to plunge feet first into the world over ECL. Not sure if I have a clue what I'm doing, but I'm probably in the right place to find out.

I have a profile Cardinal just dying to be electrified.

1. Managed to find a shop here in the UK with an ICE 50 lite in stock - purchased.
2. Is this battery worth buying? ebay item number 230442123260 - I like the safety aspect plus the idea of a 1000 cycles +
3. I selected this motor for the Cardinal: Turnigy AerodriveXp 32 SK Series 35-48 900Kv / 770W
4. With all the reading I've done, I reckon I need a Will Hubin timer - which one & why?
5. Battery charger, which one & why? - would like to be able to charge from the car @ the field, is this possible?
6. APC E 12x6 pusher
7. Have I missed anything?

Regards
Peter

OK - I'll start this off, then let others shoot holes in my answers 

1. Managed to find a shop here in the UK with an ICE 50 lite in stock - purchased.
       Good start - did you also get the Castle Link programming dongle?  You will need it.
2. Is this battery worth buying? ebay item number 230442123260 - I like the safety aspect plus the idea of a 1000 cycles +
       As one of the few on here who have actually used LiFe cells, I really wouldn't recommend them for a beginning setup.  They are too heavy for their energy capacity and are different enough from LiPo's that the "Knowledge Base" here won't be much help.  If you DO decide to go with them, I would recommend that you set up a 3s2p pack and use the 3548-1100 (rather than the 900).  Their advantages have been pretty much overshadowed by the latest LiPo technology and their price has risen, while LiPo's have fallen.
3. I selected this motor for the Cardinal: Turnigy AerodriveXp 32 SK Series 35-48 900Kv / 770W
    That motor, with a 4s LiPo pack will do very well on a Cardinal - with the 900 Kv, you will probably need 2500-3000 mah capacity.
4. With all the reading I've done, I reckon I need a Will Hubin timer - which one & why?
     Go straight to the horses mouth - whubin@kent.edu.  Tell him you've got an ICE 50 and he'll tell you which is the current model of timer you need.
5. Battery charger, which one & why? - would like to be able to charge from the car @ the field, is this possible?
      Depends somewhat on the battery you decide - most of the modern ones will handle A123's and LiPo's, but check to be sure that it is compatible with your battery choice - if going to HobbyKing for the motor, any of the Turnigy chargers will be adequate.  Be aware that many LiPo's are not recommended to be charged at a rate that is faster than the "one-hour" rate, so field charging can inhibit your flying time.  Also, pay attention to the maximum WATTAGE that a charger is capable of - even though some say "5 amps" max, they will only put in five amps if the voltage is less than 10 volts (5 amps multiplied by 10 volts is 50 watts).  I've had the FMA Cellpro and the now have 3 Turnigy (or clones) 50-watt ones.  There wasn't much to choose between them.
6. APC E 12x6 pusher
    Seems to be the universal starting point -
7. Have I missed anything?
    Nope - it really is pretty much plug and play at this point.  Be prepared to be amazed at the amount of 'hassle' you've been puttting up with .... until now.

 

       Good start - did you also get the Castle Link programming dongle?  You will need it.

The Castle ICE LITE 50 (and possibly others) comes with a voucher for a FREE Castle Link. valid until 1 Aug 2010. All you have to do is go online and order it and use the code on the voucher to get yours for FREE.

OK - so I'm heading in the right direction.

Mike, I'll drop the idea of A123's for the time being- would these be ok or is 15C a problem? 260359118950 (ebay item number)

Note taken Warren,

HobbyKing
Turnigy 3300mAh 4S 20C Lipo Pack = $35.00
Turnigy 3000mAh 4S 20C Lipo Pack = $21.95

I want to order 3 - In all honesty would I be pushing my luck by opting for the 3000mAh, it would be nice to save nearly $40

Turnigy Accucel-6 50W 5A Balancer/Charger w/ accessories = $24.99
12V 5A Power Supply                                                     = $9.99
Turnigy Watt Meter and power Analyzer                            = $23.95
Car Cigarette Lighter Adapter for charger                          = $1.99

The ICE 50 lite turned up this morning, Castle link (dongle) ordered.

Waiting to hear from Will on a timer

Mike, I'll drop the idea of A123's for the time being- would these be ok or is 15C a problem? 260359118950 (ebay item number)


HobbyKing
Turnigy 3300mAh 4S 20C Lipo Pack = $35.00
Turnigy 3000mAh 4S 20C Lipo Pack = $21.95

I want to order 3 - In all honesty would I be pushing my luck by opting for the 3000mAh, it would be nice to save nearly $40

Turnigy Accucel-6 50W 5A Balancer/Charger w/ accessories = $24.99
12V 5A Power Supply                                                     = $9.99
Turnigy Watt Meter and power Analyzer                            = $23.95
Car Cigarette Lighter Adapter for charger                          = $1.99

OK, I really recommend that you NOT buy those cheap batteries from Ebay - I accidentally won an auction from one of those Hong Kong drop shippers - a 4 cell, 4000 mah, 20 C battery for a total of $27 including shipping.  This thing was a no-name, but from a supplier that had thousands of feedbacks and a large Ebay store.  It was a joke - at 5 amps, it puffed up and got extremely hot and I couldn't think of any use for it, so I ran it dead, cut the connectors off it, drove a nail through it and threw it away.  Basically, I got a 4 cell balancing plug and a Dean's clone (which I don't use) for $27.

The Turnigys are generally pretty good and getting better - I just bought 3 of the 4-cell 3000's (20C) and haven't done anything with them yet, but also got 3 3-cell 3600's and have done a full "break-in" as outlined by Kim D. - then did some test running and am quite pleased with them.  My 3-cell setup uses about 3000 mah to fly through the pattern (12-6 @ 8200 RPM) so a 3600 is about right.

Your capacity needs will be an inverse function of your Kv to some extent, so an 1100 Kv will need more capacity than a 900 Kv to turn the same prop at the same RPM.  I am figuring that a 4-cell driving a 900 Kv will need about 2400-2600 mah, so the 3000's should be OK.  If it pulls a little too much current, I will back off the prop to an 11-6 or 11-7 - I've flown both and they are very nearly the equal of the 12-6.  For certain, the extra 300 mah isn't worth an extra $15/pack.

Peter
First off WELCOME to Stunt Hanger and the ECL forum.  

You choices all look very good for your Cardinal.. I think you will be OK with the 4Sx3000 packs IF:

* You fly on .015 x 63' (or shorter) lines.  NOTE this is about what you should be using on the Cardinal anyway.

* With the 12x6P you should need around 8600 - 8800 RPM.  This should deliver lap times somewhere in the 5.0 to 5.4 sec range.


Last summer I was flying a testbed Pathfinder (about 40 aquare inches larger than the Cardinal) with a larger motor  and a 4Sx3600 pack which proved oversized.  TH bird weighed in at 61 oz and I flew it on 018 x 66' lines and used 2550 - 2650 mah.  I actually flew it successfully with a 4S x 2800 pack but that was too close to the limits.

With that set of tests concluded I converted the airplane to a right-sized power system and will also plan to use 015 x 63' lines - which will be fine for this airplane.  I installed an Arrowind 2820 motor (slightly smaller than your choice) and expect to safely use a 4Sx2800.  The combination of the smaller motor and pack reduces the weight to 54 oz. I will also be changing from .018 x 66' to .015 x 63' lines which will substantially reduce the power usage.  The combination of lighter airframe weight and shorter/lighter lines will easily enable the usage of the 2800 pack.

Your Cardinal should finish in the low 50 oz range (give or take) and should be about as clean (or slightly cleaner?) than the Pathfinder.  The 4Sx3000 packs should be safe for your application.


A small warning.  Once you start flying ECL its HARD to go back to flying IC!    

Peter

Guess I'd better get off my A** and get my two PA .51's and their headers and pipes listed. You don't know it yet but you are about to flood the IC market. Beter get mine out there before you do. 

Welcome to the joy!

bob branch

not a particularly good idea to charge from your car battery as it will destroy it quickly...starter batteries are not made to be drawn down as far as it takes to charge a bunch of 3000 mah cells..they are made to give lots of amps for a very short period of time then be recharged presumeably by the alternator on the motor it just started....they are not made to have 5 or 10 amps drawn out of them for an hour or two at a time.....get yourself a deep cycle battery and you will be much happier.........And NEVER charge from the cigarette lighter socket.....it ain't made to do what you will be asking from it......oh and a good place to get deep cycle Gel cell batteries is a shop that sells electric handicap scooters...I get them used for some of the guys here, and they run about 10 to 20 dollars ...when they change one bad battery in a scooter, it's pretty much mandatory to change the two good ones too..otherwise the old batteries will damage the life span of the new one...so there's usually 2 good batteries that need to be disposed of, and around here they gotta pay for that, so they are happy to get a twenty for it.

Hi All,
My experience is that a 10S/5A-H pack is good for one recharge on a car battery, and the second is dodgy unless you run the car for maybe 15 or 20 minutes to partially recharge beforehand.
For a 4s/4-A-H pack, I'd say 3 or 4 charges between running the car is fine, and my minivan does not have a particularly large capacity battery.
Do avoid the cigarette lighter for a variety of reasons, the most of which is to get the batteries being charged away from the vehicle!
I use a set of standard jumper cables directly from the battery, and I clip them charger end to a large wooden dowel, to gaurantee that the two giant clips cannot ever short together.
The charger(s)  clip to them.

take care,
Dean Pappas

So how many pounds of battery do you have in the back of that truck, Ron?
take care,
  Dean

Hi Ron
Not everyone can manage a semi-fixed battery installation like that in their vehicle!
What the market needs is a voltage spike suppressor/filter for folks to be able to use their chargers while the car runs. many of them get cranky if the car is running.

later,
Dean

actually it wasn't really all that difficult to do..the starting system for the pickup is 2 twelve volt batteries, they charge as 12 volts, run all the lights....radio...heater etc....on 12 volts, but are hooked to the starter in series for 24 volts...so I kinda copied that setup. works really well, and has had more than a few fellows looking at it and scratching their heads......I have two sets of polarized plugs...standard deans for 12 volts, that anyone can hook into, and screw in polarized plugs from a Boeing 727 for 24 volts for my chargers...decided to do that so that anyone who needed to plug in their charger wouldn't accidently get 24 volts..also have 115 volts AC back there from the panel for a soldering iron..standard household plug in.....there are also other mods to the box, such as a slide out work/assembly bench and model stand for putting together my larger ( 1/4 and 1/3 scale) models...and wing racks. believe it or not, I can get a 1/3 scale DR1, a 1/4 scale sopwith Pup, a 1/4 scale Tiger moth..and a couple park flyers in the back of a short box Dodge pickup along with a flight box and 4 drawer tool box...AND still close the tail gate and canopy door  

Just a few more photos

Peter

Last three - Promise !!!

Hope to fly tomorrow - Plenty of sunshine & low winds forecast for the S.E of England.  

Forgot to add - Have a 12X6 APCe pusher in reserve