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Author Topic: Had a strange electrical problem  (Read 613 times)

Offline Andrew Borgogna

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Had a strange electrical problem
« on: May 08, 2013, 02:01:14 PM »
First of all let me give credit to Dean for giving me a clue as to what the problem was.  I am a neat freak when it comes to wiring, it comes from 40 years in computer electronics.  I just can't stand to see a bundle of wires hanging out.  So I neatly bundle the wiring up and neatly tie them together with nylon tie raps and admire how nice it all looks.  Well that was until my new Ringmaster began to have weird problems, like the motor governor was having problem and sudden shut downs.  My first thought was the feed back wire from the motor to the KR timer had an intermittent connection.  So I cut all the tie raps and examined the connections on the feedback wire and it was sound. 

That's when I remember what Dean had said about cross coupling between the motor wires and other, for lack of a better term, data wires.  Sure enough the feed back wire was in the middle of the power wire bundle.  When I opened up the bundle and left everything hanging in the breeze the motor stabilized right up and worked as intended.  Any inductive coupling of back EMF pulses into the feedback wire will totally screw up the timers ability to keep track of motor RPM, and makes it impossible for the governor to work.  So if you use a KR governor/timer I urge you to make sure the feedback wire is kept clear of the three motor wires.  Mine was buried in the middle of the three wires, which is probably worst case. 

This was the first time any of my power systems have done this but if it happens once it can  happen again.  y1
Andy
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Had a strange electrical problem
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2013, 02:26:47 PM »
Very intersting.  I also have my feed back wire tied up with lacing cord to the motor lead.  However it is for a short distance and it is tied to the motor lead that it is sensing. Also my motor leads are farly short.  So far I have not had any problem.
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Offline Andrew Borgogna

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Re: Had a strange electrical problem
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2013, 03:45:07 PM »
John
Looking at your picture, it is like all the other electrics I have built and did not have any problem.  The difference with the plane that did have a problem was the feedback wire was buried in the middle of the three power wires to the motor.  The problem I believe is the timer/governor counts back EMF pulse to compute RPM, with the wire on the outside of the wire it is attached to does not allow the other two to inductively couple to the feedback wire.  But with the wire in the middle of the three it does allow the other two to couple over.   I have several planes that are wired like yours and have never had a problem.  I just want people to be aware that problems can occur if the wire is in the middle of the bundle.
Andy
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Had a strange electrical problem
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 02:38:28 PM »
Thanks, Andy.  Good advice.
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Had a strange electrical problem
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 12:11:45 PM »
What is happening there is you are causing a EMP and the flux capacitor is looking to align itself with said EMP. On a serious note I had a Harley security system that would not arm for this exact reason. The antenna was buried in between 2 + wires and it caused a electromagnetic pulse that would not allow it to arm. Took for ever to find it.
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Had a strange electrical problem
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 12:54:54 PM »
John
Looking at your picture, it is like all the other electrics I have built and did not have any problem.  The difference with the plane that did have a problem was the feedback wire was buried in the middle of the three power wires to the motor.  The problem I believe is the timer/governor counts back EMF pulse to compute RPM, with the wire on the outside of the wire it is attached to does not allow the other two to inductively couple to the feedback wire.  But with the wire in the middle of the three it does allow the other two to couple over.   I have several planes that are wired like yours and have never had a problem.  I just want people to be aware that problems can occur if the wire is in the middle of the bundle.
Andy
All true.  I am sure that the interference would come from the two motor wires that are NOT connected to feedback wire.  So it makes sense that care must be taken to keep the feedback wire as short as possible and away from the two other motor leads.  Once again thanks for the heads up!

 #^
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