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Electric Stunt => Gettin all AMP'ed up! => Topic started by: Dan Bregar on March 23, 2012, 04:47:09 PM

Title: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Dan Bregar on March 23, 2012, 04:47:09 PM
I wondered if there is a consensus as to which mounting style is superior.  My thinking says that in a rear mount situation All of the weight and mass is in front of the firewall.  And in a front mount situation, the motor itself is behind the firewall, but the prop and hub adapter is forward of the firewall. So theoretically there is a better distribution of mass with the front mount.  In a lot of applications it probably doesn't make a difference, but when we get to larger motors and their larger props (read heavier), it may be meaningful. Perhaps flying our square corners and such, may have an undesirable effect due to the cantilever effect, on the motor bearings. Perhaps one style is less affected than the other ?  Just wanted to hear what you guys that have been doing this a while have to say on the subject.  Don't want to cloud the issue with adding additional bearing supports. Just the plain vanilla front or rear firewall mounted motor and nothing else.  OK guys I'm all ears.
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Will Moore on March 23, 2012, 05:26:54 PM
I have traditionally used rear mount because it gets the motor further away from the nose, where sometimes there
 is not a lot of room to play around with. Still, there is something to be said for supporting the motor both front and rear with another
bearing. It requires, in most cases, to have the drive shaft extend out in both directions so a bearing can be placed on it.

Mounting in such a way would give total support of the drive shaft, and the motor no matter how you mount it , rear or front.
The additional bearing would have to be of high quality, and you would have to align with accuracy.  But I feel that would be the
best way.  For some, it might be considered over-kill, but over engineering is an asset in this sport. You want to eliminate as
much trouble as possible.
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Mark Scarborough on March 23, 2012, 05:33:40 PM
purely coincidental information, but I have lost bearings in two electric motors that were rear mounted,, I cannot say without a doubt that it would have made a diffeence to mount them from the front,, but for me and my models,, they will all be front mount from now on,,
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Russell Bond on March 23, 2012, 05:44:22 PM
I was using an Arrowind (Emax) motor (rear mounted) when I first started in electrics, but I found that the "can" flexed and the magnets scraped the armature and from then on the motor was noisy.
I have now converted to the Orbit and the can has a separate bearing to support it. (The motor has 3 bearings.)
Now I don't have any problems anymore with noisy motors etc.
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Allan Perret on March 24, 2012, 05:44:45 AM
I have now converted to the Orbit and the can has a separate bearing to support it. (The motor has 3 bearings.)
Now I don't have any problems anymore with noisy motors etc.
Did you also rear mount the Orbit ?
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Dan Bregar on March 24, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
Will Moore

You are no doubt correct.  But for the purpose of this discussion I don't want to cloud the issue by getting into other bearing supports than what is already in the motor.  :)  Now that APC "improved" their E-props (heavier), I'm trying to find out if rear mounted motors are having issues as a result. Thanks Will  ;)
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Russell Bond on March 24, 2012, 05:59:38 PM
Yes Allan, I rear mounted the Orbit.  ;D
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: john vlna on March 24, 2012, 06:06:51 PM
I have only been flying electric for a couple of years, but I have rear mounted and front mounted motors. So far no problem either way. Front seems to me to be better, but I don't have a good reason to say that. I just like it better.
John
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: john e. holliday on March 24, 2012, 07:16:16 PM
Looks like a motor mouted front and rear would be the best.   Didn't Bob Hunt have problems in the early vesions of his electric set ups until he put a mount on that held both end of the motor? ???
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: phil c on March 24, 2012, 08:05:23 PM
Most can motors have two bearing, one in the backplate where the wires are, and one just forward of the coils, inside the can.  As Russ pointed out, the can can flex in a real fast dance, sometimes enough to grind the magnets on the stator. The shaft and the aluminum frame inside the stator make it prove to flexing. MVVS builds a support cage around the rotor so the shaft is supported at both ends.  Others put another bearing  inside the usually open end of the can.

I know Bob Hunt tried the firewall mount and put a second bearing inside the plane on the shaft attached to the can.  From what I heard later, just mounting the motor with the backplate forward and behind the firewall is enough.  Twisty and rocking loads on the problem bearing inside the can are much reduced.
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Keith Renecle on March 24, 2012, 10:58:51 PM
I've used both methods myself, and don't have problems either way. I use a lot of E-Max motors, all rear mounted and so far only one has caused problems but this is due to cheaper bearings more than a can flex problem. I found some decent Japanese bearings at a reasonable cost, and this makes a difference. My Electron model has a front mounted MVVS 6,5 motor with a conventional outrunner drum, unlike the ones mentioned by Phil. Percy Attfield is flying his Impact with the same motor but it's rear-mounted. Both of us have plenty of flights on these motors and zero problems. I believe that it's more to do with the quality of the bearings than the way of mounting the motor.

Motors like Plettenberg with the bigger 3rd bearing are obviously the best way to go, but at a price.

Keith R
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Dan Bregar on March 25, 2012, 08:56:54 AM
Thank you Phil & Keith.  Very good information. Now were getting some where.  H^^
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Chris Wilson on March 26, 2012, 04:02:04 PM
Can flex or not, it just makes engineering sense to place the mount closest to the where the load is highest.

Front mount seems to be the best if you can only have one type.
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Dan Bregar on March 26, 2012, 06:19:44 PM
Chris

I'm thinking you are correct  ;D
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Dennis Toth on March 26, 2012, 07:43:34 PM
Guys,
I think the most important part of the mount is a solid firewall. Some have tried to use thinner 1/8" firewall which seems to work with an external bearing to reduce flexing. I have used 3/16" front mount. On one ship I used some brass mount clips to hold the firewall mount. Unfortunately, the mount clips allowed some flexing of the mount. I added a rear external bearing and that solved the problem. On a second ship I used a solid glued in front 3/16" plywood mount and used a couple small screws through the fuse into the mount and this seems as good as the mount with an external bearing. One thing I do to the plywood mount is once it is cut out and fitted I CA the surface and mount holes to harden the mount.

I think the rear mount will also work provided it is solid.

Best,             DennisT
Title: Re: Front mount VS Rear mount: Pros & Cons
Post by: Dan Bregar on March 27, 2012, 02:57:44 PM
Thanks Dennis !  Good point !  :)