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Author Topic: just a queation here.....  (Read 1041 times)

Offline jim gilmore

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just a queation here.....
« on: April 15, 2012, 08:01:36 PM »
I have a question but i am not real sure as to why and why nots....
My question revolves around getting more rpm and why they always run gearboxes as slowing down the rpm of a propeller.
I'm confused as to why we do not use a gearbox to speed up rmp...
I was thinking of a model like a hawker Tempest or a hawker typhoon where the engine/compartment is off set fom the cowls centerline...
In real life they needed the engine higher so the large prop would not hit the ground and encase the engine completely.
in a model with an electric motor you could mount the motor lower to use the cowl opening . and a gearbox would turn the prop and raise the c/l to the correct spot.
But not sure why we cannot use a larger motor and sping a prop faster than the motors speed ?


Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: just a queation here.....
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 08:13:51 PM »
You could, but gearboxes are a source of inefficiency.  And expense, weight, and mechanical complexity.

In fact, electrics in RC went through a long phase where motors were almost invariably bolted onto gearboxes, and almost invariably spun in excess of 15000, or even 20000 RPM.

"Outrunner" motors such as are used almost exclusively now were specifically designed to generate a healthy amount of torque at lower speeds, to obviate the need for a gearbox.

Edit:

I misread the question -- I thought you wanted to know why we don't use gearboxes anymore, not that you wanted to know why we shouldn't gear things up.

For that -- Brett's answer.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: just a queation here.....
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 08:18:20 PM »
I have a question but i am not real sure as to why and why nots....
My question revolves around getting more rpm and why they always run gearboxes as slowing down the rpm of a propeller.
I'm confused as to why we do not use a gearbox to speed up rmp...
I was thinking of a model like a hawker Tempest or a hawker typhoon where the engine/compartment is off set fom the cowls centerline...
In real life they needed the engine higher so the large prop would not hit the ground and encase the engine completely.
in a model with an electric motor you could mount the motor lower to use the cowl opening . and a gearbox would turn the prop and raise the c/l to the correct spot.
But not sure why we cannot use a larger motor and sping a prop faster than the motors speed ?

  You could, but it would be a lot less efficient. In general, accelerating a large amount of air a little bit is more efficient than accelerating a small amount of air a lot.

     For IC engines you get the maximum HP by making it run at as high an RPM as possible. If you have a direct drive prop what you gain in the engine by making it spin faster can easily get lost by reduced efficiency. For full-scale applications maximizing the HP into the airframe is the most important factor so you see a lot of reduction drives.

    For stunt it's not necessarily true that you want maximum efficiency, in fact, you want it to be terribly inefficient in level flight. Plus depending on the engine, running a maximally efficient prop (at low revs) can lose you so much shaft HP that you are net worse off. That's what people missed (and are still missing in some cases) when we got high-performance engines back in the 80's.

   For electric it's a bit of a different story, your "engine" probably has reasonable performance over a wide range of RPM (limited on the low end by current capability) so you will probably never get into the compromise of RPM for prop efficiency for any reasonable prop diameters.

     Brett

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: just a queation here.....
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 08:40:34 PM »
I guess that leave me a sexond question is can we get 23-24k rpm on a 6-6.5 inch propellor ?

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: just a queation here.....
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 08:52:15 PM »
I guess that leave me a sexond question is can we get 23-24k rpm on a 6-6.5 inch propellor ?

Easily, by direct drive from a motor designed for ducted fan operation.

Is this for speed?  I don't think it'd be suitable for stunt.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: just a queation here.....
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 09:18:09 PM »
I guess that leave me a sexond question is can we get 23-24k rpm on a 6-6.5 inch propellor ?


   Yes. That's about what a good Tee Dee .09 will do.

    Brett

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: just a queation here.....
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 09:58:43 PM »
I guess that leave me a sexond question is can we get 23-24k rpm on a 6-6.5 inch propellor ?


yep - I currently have a sytem that will do 40,000 rpm on a 6x6 prop (for speed obviously)
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: just a queation here.....
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 10:42:39 PM »
Well 40,000 is definatly over kill..i want a 6,2-6,4 thar will definately swing between 20,000,25,000. an hopefullky fit inside a 1.2-1.4 inch wide fuse ?
Under 1 and a half inch wide


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