First let's cut to the chase: Mr. Renecle, I am a believer in KR timers!

Flew the KR equipped Joker (OTS) yesterday - including 7 full patterns.  The airplane works great.  The timer works GREAT.  Here's a video of one of the patterns - this was my second pattern on the bird, and my 4th pattern in the past two years so critics will be given a deaf ear (actually both of my ears are near deaf - but that is another story!):



Took it down to Muncie to fly with my nephew Arch-3.  He has a lot of electric experience and saavy - along with his interest, I wanted his involvement with the new timer.  Neither Archie or I could remember the OTS pattern(!!!), so we just did modern patterns and thus really wrung out the airplane.  The Joker showed itself to be a formidable flyer, I would not hesitate to fly it in Classic if necessary.  The day was 58F with some burbbly wind and gust of maybe 12-15 mph - not unflyable but definitely not Stunt Heaven either.  All manuvers flown dead downwind - like with any other electric.  You can feel the airplane get grabbed by the wind then just fly it - no acceleration, no fall off in speed.  When I missed the wind the airplane would "tell" me, but the power system never missed a beat for demand & supply.  Good power all the way through the clover even when using the 4Sx1900 packs.

Keith, as far as I know you are still gathering real world feedback onon your Gain system  Had a little buzziness in level flight with Gain set to 5, tried 4 then settled on 3.  I think that is the lowest I have heard from you or Andy.  The Joker is tugged along by a 10x5.5EP prop (clipped down 11") and Arrowind 2815 motor.  The motor is a little strong for that prop and does not have to work very hard.  This also provides more than ample power to the 38 oz, thin winged Joker.  Classify it as lots of power and not a lot of drag or weight.- could that be why it worked well with the lower gain setting?  I know you have mentioned others flying with the gain set to 4, 5, or 6.  For me I would expect to start any new bird at a "5" and adjust if/as needed...

Happened to hit the flight RPM right off the bench, the power system quickly faded into the background as we concentrated on FLYING.  As one of our ECL-OTS pioneers sez, "Electrics are the future of Old Time Stunt"  (thanks Crist)  Put another way, if you wnat to really appreciate how good the old time airplanes fly, build electric.  If you want to run OTS engines, get a milk crate with a test stand bolted to it...

When we were several patterns in, I reminded both of us that we were NOT flying our regular Phoenix set-ups.  From the handle or the judges perspective any differences in performance versus Phoenix were not apparent.  You can consider that HIGH praise.  For me the next big test will be to fly in dead calm conditions - where the power demands are usually the highest - and see how it keeps up.  My expectations are "no worries".

I have a bunch of packs to charge, after seven full patterns at 5:30.  We flew 4 flights at Gain set to 5, one at 4 and 2 at 3, the sample sizes are small but we might be able to make some connection between reducing the Gain and battery usage due to reduced buzz.  I am also thinking I can shorten flight time from 5:30 to about 5:10 to reduce battery stress.  Of course the OTS pattern can be done in less time yet...

Again, GREAT JOB Keith, and thanks to you and Andy Borgogna for your help & coaching during set-up.

You are very welcome Dennis, I am really happy you are getting such good results.  I really believe that the timer controlled governor is the best approach for control line aerobatics.  It is definitely the most cost effective and the results are as good or better than using the ESC to govern the motor speed under changing loads.  The vari-gain approach is a step forward from what is available in other systems and most importantly it works.   Anyway that's my opinion.
Andy

cool looking plane too....but no V tail...whats up with that!!!  HA HA..... I know its an old timer.

My LAST OTS was a V-tail Stinger by Dale Kirn.  Should have been a good flyer - but wasn't!  (Really not sure why...) 

Dennis,
Great looking ship. With the KR timer do you still set the brake in the timer or the ESC? What are the other setting in the ESC?

Best,         DennisT

Hi Dennis
Prop Brake where it exists is a function of the ESC.  The ESC I used is the Arrowind Matrix - not advertised anymore.  I turned on the prop brake and soft start, overall it is a simple ESC.  The timer has one lead that must be soldered to any one of the ESC-Motor wires.  This is the signal wire the timer uses to know exactly what speed the motor is running , whether it is under load (manuvering) and how to respond.

The timer uses a programming chord with blinking LED, the following must be set:
* Sets RPM, you need a tach to set it (moves in roughly 100 RPM steps)
* Sets start-delay in 1 second intervals (count blinks)
* Sets flight duration in 10 second increments (count blinks)
* Sets GAIN function.  (count blinks) this is similar to setting the Governor Gain on a Castle.  It lets you determine how sensititve and how strongly the RPM governor reacts.  set it too high and it hunts (buzzes) in level flight searching for proper RPM.  Set it too low and you lose the kick in manuvers.

 

Read it again Doc!!!

He said he cut an 11" prop down to 10"    The wording might be a bit confusing. 

I made a jig for my band saw to use in cutting plastic APC props down to smaller sizes. Works great. 
John

Excellent plane and video, Dennis. Thanks for sharing.
A question, if I may:
The RSM site lists two KR timers Ver. 1.2 and Ver. 2.0.
Is any of these the one you´ve been testing?
Thanks

Luiz

The version 1 timer had the LED on the programming card and it became a bit of a problem to make because it had a few resistors underneath as well. It was not a really big problem but it took too long to make and there were regular issues with the supplier. When I redesigned the timer for more features I used a processor chip with more pins and then I could get rid of the resistors so I decided to put the LED on the timer. You need to plug the programmer onto the board so you get usually get to see the LED. You can order the LED on a fly-lead if you like.

I made ver.1.2 to suit customers with the ver.1 timer if they did not want to update to the new version and programmer. I stated that you can buy one programming card for many timers and I simply felt that I did not want to suddenly say that now you have to buy the new version. So if you want to get more timers that will work for the ver.1 programming card then just buy the ver.1.2 timer. The ver. 2 system has an option for retracts but basically all the timers work  just as well. The change was necessary for manufacturing it quicker and to cater for future updates. All new customers should buy the ver. 2 system.

Keith R

Hey Kieth: 
Can you tell us a little more about the retract option. 
What are the settings that control gear up and gear down, are they fixed or adjustable ?

the retract setting are pre-programmed and not adjustable  - dfrom memory - gear up is 10 seconds after governor kicks in (spool up to flight speed) and 5 seconds after the time off indictor

I have one that I am fitting in my spitfire - should be up and running in a week or so (wife dependant) 

What happens if you loose your prop in flight?

Greetings Robert-Jan