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Author Topic: first flight with ECL  (Read 2237 times)

Offline Larry Wong

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first flight with ECL
« on: May 18, 2008, 03:02:45 PM »
OK  this what I did today , fully charged 4000mha  14.8 v  first flight 12x6 APC E prop lap times were 61 0n 60 ft lines.
Secone flight full charge and 12x8 APC E prop lape time 4.9 this was better I started the pattern and wing over was good, but the loops started to slow up  and on the 3rd one almost stall lost of air speed, does any one have any ideas.
the motor is AXI 2826/10 and a Castle 45 Will Hubin timer, all seams to work ok but power sags .
Larry

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Alan Hahn

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 04:48:03 PM »
Larry,
How about a few more details---(sorry if I missed if you posted the details somewhere else). For example, what plane, and are you running governor mode?

Also what type battery are you using? From your previous post, I think  you are running a Lipo. Where do you get the 14.8V level from? Is it the actual voltage measured before flying? I ask this because a freshly charged lipo should be reading somewhere in the 16.6+V range under no load. With load the voltage at the ESC will drop to values like 14.8V If it was really reading 14.8V before running, then it wasn't fully charged, and this might explain why you noticed a say (although I am surprised you didn't get some blips from the LVC of the ESC.

I note that your battery is roughly twice the capacity of what I am using with a Nobler, and I have no problem with sagging in the flight.

Offline Larry Wong

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 06:05:22 PM »
Alan the Battery is a Impuse power 4000 mha 4cell 20c when charged it says 16.8v I got it from Randy Smith the plane is a converted plane that I design 3 years ago it's a bigger than a Vector.
Larry

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Alan Hahn

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 06:27:43 PM »
Are you running governor mode on the ESC? If not you might just be seeing the initial fast drop-off of voltage.


Offline Larry Wong

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 07:03:52 PM »
How do I find out if I'm in governor mode?
Larry

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Alan Hahn

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 08:25:41 PM »
Larry,
If you have to ask, you aren't!
Ok that is the problem. Let me show you what one of my flights looks like. You are looking at Watts (orange) and Pack Volts (grey). The rpm is set to run at a fixed 8100 rpm. You can see that the volts drop through the flight. If you aren't in governor mode, as the volts drop, so does your throttle, and airpeed. Some Timers can compensate by raising the throttle setting during the flight (usually linearly), but I don't think yours can.

Governor mode is much better anyway. When setup this way, the ESC interprets the timer throttle setting as an rpm. There is a little trial and error to get the flight speed you want, but once you have it, it is pretty solid. The rpm will be less than max power, so that when the load goes up in a climb, the ESC can goose the throttle to keep the rpm from dropping. Also when the plane is coming on the downward slope, the throttle is dropped, also keeping the rpm constant.

To set governor mode, you need to program your ESC. I think you can do it with either a RC setup, or with the CC "Castle Link" cable/board and software. It runs only on a PC (unfortunately for me since my machine is a Mac, but I do have access to a PC.) I am guessing that you will need to buy the Castle Link (it comes with everything you need).



Offline Larry Wong

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2008, 09:04:58 PM »
Thank Alan

I do have a link cord that has a USB end on it, But I still don't know how to use it . I will try to plub it in I 'm guessing that the battery has to be charged up for this! I guess I have a lot to learn , now the govenor has to be (on) right? With the motor disconnected?
Larry

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Alan Hahn

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2008, 09:44:24 PM »
Larry,
You can program the ESC without being hooked up to the motor. First you need to install the software from CC onto the PC. That goes reasonably easily. Then launch the application, plug the USB part of the cable into the PC, the other end onto the little card, then the ESC throttle cable is plugged into the connector coming from the little card. The application will note that it has connected to the ESC---also probably will say new software exists and do you want to download. For now you can probably skip that. Anyway there are two tabbed windows, the first lets you set some of the features. About all you want to do is to make sure that the Low Voltage Shutoff (LVC) is "soft", and then under throttle type, chose governor mode "high". Governor mode "Gain" somewhere around 70+ (custom), and Spool Up Custom "9". The latter sets how fast the motor will spin up,---even "9" which is suppose to be "fast" is still pretty slow, and will take ~5 s or so to get to max rpm.

Once you finish, upload the parameters, and remove the ESC. After putting back into the plane and hooking up to the Timer, you will need to set an appropriate rpm. I fly at 8100rpm with the APC 12-6 prop. I am guessing you will need a higher rpm than I do since your plane is bigger and heavier. As a wild guess, something like 8500-8600 on the 12-6 prop is maybe reasonable. With the 12-8, a lower rpm is called for. It is your choice. Anyway you are talking throttle settings in the 30% or lower of full scale on your timer. I suggest putting a small prop (10 or 11") on your plane, set the throttle to ~28% and measure the rpm. Set it where you want to try using the small prop--it is less stress on your battery and motor. Then put the normal prop back on and try a flight. Then it will be back and forth to get it where you want it.

Good luck!

Offline Mike Palko

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2008, 10:00:16 PM »
Larry,
   To program the Phoenix-45 with the Castle Link you will need to DL the software at the bottom of this page. http://www.castlecreations.com/downloads/cl_beta_info.html You do not need the flight battery plugged in to program the ESC if you are using the standard Phoenix-45.  

   Governor mode is required for better speed control. In aircraft/auto calibrating throttle mode you should not see a sag like you described at any point. The LVC should turn the system off before this can happen. From the looks of your airplane (which is very nice :)) I am guessing you didn't just pull full up and stall the airplane.

   My guess is the stall was caused by the timer setting, battery trouble or poor connection somewhere in the system. With a 12x6 APC-E you should easily be turning sub 5 second laps if the timer is not set properly. The 12x8 helps the performance, but is really just a band aid fix.

   It sounds like you need to do some more bench runs before you fly again. Program the ESC and timer, charge the battery and put a 12x6 back on. Measure the no load voltage of the battery, prop RPM and current draw for a short burst and post what you find. If you have trouble doing any of the above let us know and we will guide you through it. It can be a costly mistake flying a power system blindly.

   Good luck, Mike      

Offline Larry Wong

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 12:28:21 AM »
Mike I DL the link twice and repair mode, but the program can't see the CC45 linkto USB, when I plug it in the USB port it rings like it is connected, the light on the link has green/red glowing the phoenix 45 lights up red, but the link window shows no controller? HB~> HB~>
Larry

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Offline Larry Wong

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 12:30:04 AM »
I also have  Jeti should I try it instead? ???
Larry

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Alan Hahn

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2008, 09:55:43 AM »
If the link is ok, it will be green. As I recall, there are two software light's on the CC Link window, one is for the USB board, the other is for the ESC (I am trying to remember this as it isn't in front of me right now). Which one is showing red?

If you have the programming board, maybe the Jeti Spin is easier to set up at this point. I have no experience with it, but I think Mike and others use them and can help.


Offline Igor Burger

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 10:05:05 AM »
Jeti Spin is Rolls Royce compared to CC :-))

Offline Larry Wong

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 12:47:40 PM »
Well Guys thanks for ALL your help, I findly got the link to work, and got it program to governor mode, will try it.  If I use the Jeti Advance 40. I have program card for it, does Jeti have a governor mode also? I also have a Z Tron timer. I think I have more parts and Don't know what to do with it.  I have a lot to learn for a old dog. HB~> ???
« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 01:35:38 PM by Larry Wong »
Larry

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Alan Hahn

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 01:48:12 PM »
Jeti Spin is Rolls Royce compared to CC :-))
Well if you like old stodgy Rolls Royces..... :-*

I have no real complaints about the CC Phoenix Series---except for Windows-only software. It would be nice to have a Jeti board like setup too. Other than that, it is a nice solid ESC.


Alan Hahn

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2008, 01:55:45 PM »
Well Guys thanks for ALL your help, I findly got the link to work, and got it program to governor mode, will try it.  If I use the Jeti Advance 40. I have program card for it, does Jeti have a governor mode also? I also have a Z Tron timer. I think I have more parts and Don't know what to do with it.  I have a lot to learn for a old dog. HB~> ???

Rudy tells me he runs about 9100 rpm on his Brodak P40 electric setup (also APC E 12-6 prop). So for starters I would try that rpm. I don't know how to set the throttle on your timer, but on the Ztron, setting the throttle dip switch for "16" should give you just about 9100 rpm on your CC45. I would start there and adjust as needed for comfortable flying.

Offline Thierry SAUNIER

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2008, 03:31:18 PM »
Larry,
It seems now you're ready for that first E-flight! I hope you will enjoy it. Keep us all informed on the result.

Concerning the ESC, the CC series are nice tools, easy to program AT HOME with the PC, but: have no breaking capability yet.

The JETI SPIN series are superior tools with strong breaking capabilities, and that marvelous Jeti Box which is very powerfull:
1/ Fully programming of the ESC on the field with it's digital display
2/ Setting of the governor RPM setting (just set the Timer to a high ms range)
3/ In flight acquisition and after flight restitution of min-max values (amps, volts, temp, RPM) and defaults
4/ Jeti Box serves as weel as a Pulse width meter, Pulse generator, servo tester...extra for programming the Timers.
Thats why Igor calls it: Rolls
I use that system for 2 years in competition with AXI 28/26/10 + 4S + Cam Prop 12,5 x 6

The SCHULZE 18/46K-F2B seems to be a good ESC too, but not having so many programming capabilities. The integrated Dip-Switches are user friendly in the field, the Governor is very efficient, the brake is powerfull enough.  But you still have to set your Timer for RPM- not on the SPIN...
As of today I have not satisfactorily completed the set up of my Schulze + JMP. Still under development for me...

Others work ok for E-CL too such as Kontroniks, MGM...

Again, happy flying.
Thierry


Offline Mike Palko

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2008, 04:09:49 PM »
Thierry,
   What issues are you having with the Schulze/JMP combo? Send Kim Doherty an e-mail or PM, I am sure he would be glad to help if he can. I am using the V.4 Z-Tron with the Schulze 18.46K with no issues.

Mike 

Offline NED-088

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Re: first flight with ECL
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2008, 08:13:14 AM »
Others work ok for E-CL too such as Kontroniks, MGM...
Forget Kontronik.
Used those during the WCh 2006, OK, but not good enough in anything but ideal wheather. How I know? I was lucky flying just before Bill Werwage and one of the Chinese. I escaped battling with the occasional gust, they took the full beating....
Their governor gain is nowhere near enough. Probably to prevent claims from heli guys, stripping their gearboxes.... ;D

By the way, Castle is of no use to me either for they (still) don't have a prop brake. And I'm flying F2B, remember?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 08:38:39 AM by NED-088 »
'If you think there's something about my English, you're right. I'm Dutch... '
But I DO play Stunt and I DO fly Bluegrass.


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