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Author Topic: First E- Crash  (Read 1218 times)

Offline William DeMauro

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First E- Crash
« on: May 07, 2009, 05:44:51 PM »
I finally found out what happens when you crash an electric powered plane and it's not pretty. It thankfully wasn't the SV11. On Sunday I got out between the raindrops for a few flights on my ARF P40 which I had just set back up with a brand new Phoenix 45 speed control the night before. I started flying the pattern and when I got to my inside squares the up leadout failed at the bellcrank and the plane just dove straight in. by the time I walked from the handle to the plane smoke was pouring from the speed controller and the battery had puffed to the size of a small balloon. The speed controller was a molten pile of circuits. The scorpion motor was totally destroyed shaft, bearing housing and magnet housing were all bent and I lost my custom motor mount. The plane looks pretty totaled too as the whole front is mashed,and the fuse is split in 3 places, the wing has some cracks. I do have a very pretty tail and rudder left.
 I would advise anybody flying any of these ARFS,especially the early ones to replace the leadouts before even trying to fly. I cut my Cardinal open and found it on the verge of failing and upgraded . The Cardinal has close to 90 flights on it. The P40 failed on flight #26. All 26 were with E-power.
  Before anybody trashes Mr. Brodak I contacted him and told him what had happened and he agreed to make good on my complete loss!!! So A big thank you goes out to John Brodak for standing completely behind his product!!!!!!
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Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2009, 09:00:29 PM »
I do not know if there is a GOOD way to lose a bird but man that is a TOUGH way to lose one!   :(

Forgive the dumb question/comment, and this is probably the LAST thing you want to be talking about:  I can see the motor and battery sustaining impact damage, but am a little surprised at the ESC shorting out - unless it also sustained impact damage?
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2009, 09:19:25 PM »
Thanks for the detailed report.  Sorry you lost your plane and all the electrics.
Crist
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Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 09:56:30 PM »
William,

Sorry to hear about the bumm. From what you described happening to the ESC and battery it raises the question of how do we protect these items? Should we be installing fuse links? Or is there a setting in the ESC that we need to set up different from the factor default settting?

Best,                 Dennis T

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2009, 03:13:29 AM »
I do not know if there is a GOOD way to lose a bird but man that is a TOUGH way to lose one!   :(

Forgive the dumb question/comment, and this is probably the LAST thing you want to be talking about:  I can see the motor and battery sustaining impact damage, but am a little surprised at the ESC shorting out - unless it also sustained impact damage?

I was surprised to have the ESC short out too but this thing hit very hard and straight down. I suspect the ESC sustained crash damage as it was kind of in between the motor and battery and got mashed between the two.

As far as fuse links I still don't know how practical anything in the line like a fuse would be.While I can see their electrical benefits I still oppose putting anything additional into the system that has potential to fail and as we know it will fail when we least want it to.
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Offline John Hammonds

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2009, 05:40:58 PM »
Really sorry to hear about this.  :( We used to use in-line fuses when I raced model cars some years ago but in practice they proved useless. The problem seemed to be that they take so long to react that the damage was already done.

Not that it's much consolation I would hope crash damage had something to do with the melt down of the controller. I've planted my Flightstreak several times stopping the motor dead and the over current protection has always kicked in and saved the controller. (CC PH45)

TTFN
John.
 
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2009, 06:18:11 PM »
Really sorry to hear about this.  :( We used to use in-line fuses when I raced model cars some years ago but in practice they proved useless. The problem seemed to be that they take so long to react that the damage was already done.

Not that it's much consolation I would hope crash damage had something to do with the melt down of the controller. I've planted my Flightstreak several times stopping the motor dead and the over current protection has always kicked in and saved the controller. (CC PH45)

TTFN
John.
I'm sure I lost the controller due to impact. It went in on blacktop about as hard as you can you can crash a plane. My motor was bent so bad the magnet housing separated from the rear of the motor and the bearing housing looked like someone pounded it with a sledge hammer. With the speedcontroller between the battery and motor I'm not surprised it ended up fried. The battery was blown up like a balloon and hissing something fierce. This week I'll replace the motor and Phoenix 45 and set my banshee back up again. That will give me a baseball field plane. At the moment I do not intend to replace the P40.
 
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Offline Bill Morell

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2009, 10:01:43 AM »
William, no offense but for those that fly these ARF's to continue to go with the controls provided just amazes me. Sorry you lost your plane.
Bill Morell
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2009, 08:06:58 PM »
William, no offense but for those that fly these ARF's to continue to go with the controls provided just amazes me. Sorry you lost your plane.

Bill,
I took a gamble and lost. I had heard mixed reviews on these planes and since I was only using it to test EP systems and components and not flying it regularly I figured I could get by. I was wrong!! When I cut my Cardinal open after I crashes this one it was close to failure too but that had about 90 flights on it. I did an immediate upgrade and test flew it today with no problems. In the future all control systems will be inspected and upgraded as needed so a failure like this will not happen
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Offline Jeffrey Olijar

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 01:09:18 PM »
I have had a few bad crashes and have been lucky myself so far.  I had a motor mount break and had wires ripped out of an esc but thats it for me.  I only have 1/2A sized planes.  Sorry to hear about your lost plane. 
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 09:27:26 PM »
I've always been a bit confused here. Couldn't  either a fuse that had an amperage close to the max used or maybe a small piece of stiff metal barely held in a mount that would pop out breaking the circut save a lot of expensive battery, and controllers.

Alan Hahn

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 07:49:51 AM »
I've always been a bit confused here. Couldn't  either a fuse that had an amperage close to the max used or maybe a small piece of stiff metal barely held in a mount that would pop out breaking the circut save a lot of expensive battery, and controllers.

I haven't had any crash and burns (yet!), but have had 3 or 4 "issues"---all related to takeoffs on my Nobler. If you have followed my trials and tribulations there, you will know that I am using a 12 " prop (APC thin electric), and clearance is always an issue on grass. I have replaced my gear with taller ones and also used larger wheels, but still occasionally get stubbed by thick grass and the plane noses over. Usual result is that the motor mount simply twists off. That darn prop is a lot tougher than it looks (never have lost the prop).

Anyway when that happens the amps really jump up. Up to now the process has stopped when the motor pulls a connector loose. I have been running my Castle Creation ESC in an "insensitive" overcurrent mode, and also letting the ESC lower current to keep the voltage just above the low voltage cutoff. My theory was a low power was preferable to a complete cutoff if I happened to be in a maneuver with a weak battery.

Now I think otherwise--the damage the nose of the plane and wiring, while not substantial, is still big enough to be downright irritating! HB~>. Now I have put the overcurrent cutoff to "Normal" and allow a hard cuttoff of power. Whether this will cutoff power in case of a takeoff stub I am not sure--the manual is rather vague about that point.

If I was to do things over again with the Nobler, I might cut the prop tips down a bit. The problem with the "Stork" landing gear is that it makes it easy for the plane to tip over if the wheels get bogged down in the grass. In my case I probably made it worse because I was using wire gear, which as it gets longer, it flexes more. Maybe should have made up a set of aluminum gear like the Vector has. I may still do it, but plan right now to concentrate getting the Vector going.

Offline John Cralley

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Re: First E- Crash
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2009, 10:00:32 AM »
I have several crashes with my profile electric Ringmasters. Ten to be exact!! See my signature below. I just keep trying to do things that don't work!!! Actually, my daughter and granddaughter accounted for two of the crashes.

So far I have trashed two batteries and I break the prop every time. The batteries in each case broke loose and hit the rear of the motor mount mashing the front of the battery. I have since improved the battery retaining setup with a velcro strap running lengthwise around the battery. I also broke a prop adapter collet and I lost a JMP timer when it popped off into the grass never to be found. In every case the motor shut down and the ESC was just fine. The ESCs have been cheap Chinese and in the last three crashes they were Castle Creation Phoenix 45s. I have the CC Phoenix ESCs set for hard cutoff and Normal overcurrent cutoff.

Below are a few examples:

John Cralley
Scratch Built - Often Re-kitted!!!
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