Author Topic: Fiorotti timer blinking erratically during normal flight (Read 3008 times)

Tim Stagg · « **on:** July 05, 2022, 06:48:55 AM »

Guys,

I was flying this weekend and my timer starting blinking differently during flight. it used to blink with a normal frequency but now there is a long pulse between blinks and sometimes nota blink at all...then it starts again.
It is still functioning just fine other than this feature but the blinks are no longer dependable sign of when the timer will stop.

Any ideas what may be wrong?

Tim

Mike Alimov · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2022, 09:43:18 AM »

Morse code. It's trying to tell you something 🤪

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2022, 11:25:56 AM »

... --- ... Mine is erratic too both at early start up and in flight, and like yours it still performs flawlessly. I still get a steady on before cutoff but what happens in-between is a crap shoot. When I press the start button sometimes it blinks, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I get a nice prop spin, sometimes I get a growl like the break is full on. Maybe it is!
I have just learned to live with it. Personally, I would like the On/Off lights reversed. When I divert my attention to the light it takes too long to confirm if it is blinking so I have just stopped checking till I exit the clover. I wonder what it would take to have an LED that changed color from say green to orange to red as you approached the end of flight. Orange at 30 seconds, enough to do a maneuver, red at 10 seconds, time to land...or abort. Probably a really good reason we can't.

Ken

Maybe something to that. Checked my light pattern. Maybe it is trying to tell me something:

-.-- --- ..- ... ..- -.-. -.-

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2022, 11:36:27 AM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on July 05, 2022, 11:25:56 AM

Duplicate - Sorry

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2022, 11:51:20 AM »

Help with Ken's messages if you don't speak Morse code :-)

https://morsecode.world/international/translator.html

Howard Rush · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2022, 12:00:24 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on July 05, 2022, 11:25:56 AM

I wonder what it would take to have an LED that changed color from say green to orange to red as you approached the end of flight.

$75 last time I checked. That gets you something even more fantastic: a light that tells you whether your battery is charged, that turns off after the reduced-power takeoff, then comes on to tell you that the kill loop is armed.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2022, 12:15:57 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on July 05, 2022, 12:00:24 PM

$75 last time I checked. That gets you something even more fantastic: a light that tells you whether your battery is charged, that turns off after the reduced-power takeoff, then comes on to tell you that the kill loop is armed.

Same effect, maybe even better. I never check that light in flight anyway. I just hope it is not on when I finish the clover

Will yours deploy the speed brakes on the backside of the hourglass and ignite the afterburners in the OH8?

Ken

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2022, 01:02:50 PM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 05, 2022, 06:48:55 AM

Guys,

I was flying this weekend and my timer starting blinking differently during flight. it used to blink with a normal frequency but now there is a long pulse between blinks and sometimes nota blink at all...then it starts again.
It is still functioning just fine other than this feature but the blinks are no longer dependable sign of when the timer will stop.

Any ideas what may be wrong?

Tim

Does the timer stop blinking at the end of flight before you disconnect?

Which timer version?

Just to clarify, not the blinking for calibration laps with G-force versus the normal blink without G-force calibration?

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2022, 01:48:40 PM »

Fred,

I am going to have to check on if the light goes out...I want to say it stayed lit....but I cant remember now.

I have yet to figure out the g-force setting so I am not using it...or at least changing from what it was factory set at.

It is the latest version 6.1 I think

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2022, 02:31:16 PM »

PM sent

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2022, 12:34:35 PM »

All, I figured it our with Fred Help.

Dummy me, changed the normal and reverse settings in my timer instead of my speed control thinking I was changing the motor direction on my speed control via the jetti box. And then to make things worse when the motor ran the same direction as before… I didn’t put two and two together, just changed two wires on the motor and did not change the setting back. I was getting reduced power on the up and increase power on the down….but I just thought the model was way out of trim in the windy conditions.

Fred late that night asked me the question whether my timer was mounted on the top of bottom of the fuse and which setting I was using…the light bulb finally went off.

I tested the model yesterday and everything is now great again…

Sometimes technology can make you feel really stupid

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2022, 02:17:37 PM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 11, 2022, 12:34:35 PM

Tim

THANK YOU! I would have had the same problem on my new ship. It never dawned on me that putting it on the top of the fuselage bottom was opposite to putting it on the bottom of the wing. My design called for it to be on the bottom of the wing inside the fuselage, but I changed the pushrod from exiting on the top to the bottom then moved the pad to a hatch in the bottom of the fuselage. Again THANK YOU and thanks Fred - again!

Ken

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2022, 02:21:47 PM »

The great thing about the forum and follow up posts like Tim's is that we all get a chance to learn from each other.

John Tate · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2022, 07:24:01 PM »

Great info here on the Fiorotti timer. I had to read the instructions on the normal & reverse section. I could not get it to change on the Jetti box. Thank goodness the CLTIMER instruction sheet stated to push the START button on the timer.

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2022, 07:19:24 AM »

OK new question.

Is anyone using the g-force setting and if so, what does it do? and how do you set it?

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2022, 07:46:27 AM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 12, 2022, 07:19:24 AM

OK new question.

Is anyone using the g-force setting and if so, what does it do? and how do you set it?

Try this thread. We have been discussing it there.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/timers-by-fiorotti/setting-up-active-v-6-x-timer/

Ken

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2022, 10:02:43 AM »

Cool Thanks Ken cant wait to try it

On another note during my trimming of my Gypsy. Over the past 10 years I have been flying reverse rotation on all of my electrics. for the most part they all fly well with the exception of the 3rd corner of the hourglass. For the gypsy I switched to the active system with Igors 12-5 narrow 3 blade prop. While I dont really like the fact that I loose line tension on the takeoff...most of the other maneuvers improve with the tractor prop and especially the hour glass. I have tried both pusher and tractor 3 blades and the tractor is far better for the inside maneuvers and especially the 3rd corner of the hour glass. Pusher props want to flight the turn in that corner.

Another comment point, I do realize that airplanes and props do make a difference and my statement above may not be universal....but I now want to go back and fly some of my great flying planes to see if they improve or get worse with the tractor prop

Larry Wong · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2022, 10:16:37 AM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 12, 2022, 10:02:43 AM

Cool Thanks Ken cant wait to try it

On another note during my trimming of my Gypsy. Over the past 10 years I have been flying reverse rotation on all of my electrics. for the most part they all fly well with the exception of the 3rd corner of the hourglass. For the gypsy I switched to the active system with Igors 12-5 narrow 3 blade prop. While I dont really like the fact that I loose line tension on the takeoff...most of the other maneuvers improve with the tractor prop and especially the hour glass. I have tried both pusher and tractor 3 blades and the tractor is far better for the inside maneuvers and especially the 3rd corner of the hour glass. Pusher props want to flight the turn in that corner.

Another comment point, I do realize that airplanes and props do make a difference and my statement above may not be universal....but I now want to go back and fly some of my great flying planes to see if they improve or get worse with the tractor prop

.

Tim I found that VG's helped on third corner of hour glass. just a FYI

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2022, 09:03:18 PM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 12, 2022, 07:19:24 AM

OK new question.

Is anyone using the g-force setting and if so, what does it do? and how do you set it?

I start with getting sensitivity, Max and Min all working well. That means a well-trimmed plane with level wings and turns equal inside and out. If all is well, you should have the same boost or acceleration for insides and outside. Leave Nose up and G-force off until all is well with trim and sensitivity. Sensitivity requires a well-trimmed plane to work well, nose up and G-force can somewhat mask poor trim.

Turn on Nose up at about 7 - 10 and get used to what it does for several flights and when you understand that, try 5 - 10 of G-force. I find that the blend of about 8 Nose up, 8 Sensitivity, and 8 G-force works well and gives plenty of acceleration when needed, and deceleration as well. Max about 50 - 70 above set and Min about 50 - 70 below. The numbers are a starting place, change to suit your needs and style.
Nose up tends accelerate early in a corner or loop, as the nose points up. Sensitivity is controlled by acceleration, and finally G-force (centripetal force). G-force can give acceleration as centripetal force get less which commonly occurs overhead and the plane is pulled down the lines by gravity. It can also activate in the more level circle at the upwind and downwind location as the plane is pushed in and out.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2022, 10:04:31 PM »

This thread has prompted me to go back and read the manual which is much easier when you know what they are talking about, and I may have found something that I have been doing wrong all along. Which is the flat side of the accelerometer? Is it the sticky side which is flat or the sensor side which is also flat? Put more simply, if I stick it on the bottom of the wing am I normal? I am considering bowing to pier pressure and moving it forward to the high point, or is that the low point since it is on the bottom?

Ken

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #20 on:** July 13, 2022, 11:15:56 AM »

I have the same question as Ken: since the accelerometer will normally be mounted somewhere on the bottom of the model, with the sticky part facing away from the center of the earth, which way is "up?" I mounted mine essentially the same as shown in Ken's pic (but on CG) but have not flight tested it yet.

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2022, 12:52:46 PM »

Quote from: Ken Culbertson on July 12, 2022, 10:04:31 PM

Which is the flat side of the accelerometer? Is it the sticky side which is flat or the sensor side which is also flat? Put more simply, if I stick it on the bottom of the wing am I normal? I am considering bowing to pier pressure and moving it forward to the high point, or is that the low point since it is on the bottom?
Ken

The "flat side" has the sticky tape on it. Sticky side up, as in stuck to bottom of wing, is "reverse" in the Jeti box. Still reverse if sticky side up and above the wing. Sticky side down is "normal" and some use that for inside of the bottom of the fuse. Up and down would be designated as the plane sits level upright.

Stick the tape down at the front of the sensor as the tape moving or vibrating can affect the sensor.

"Put more simply, if I stick it on the bottom of the wing am I normal?" The sensor would be "reverse." As for "am I normal," jury is out :-)

Forward/aft and vertical position don't seem to matter much. I have a friend with the sensor in the battery compartment and up at the hatch opening. Seems to work fine, but the original recommendation is about 30mm aft of CG, or bellcrank pivot.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2022, 06:24:27 PM »

Quote from: Fred Underwood on July 13, 2022, 12:52:46 PM

The "flat side" has the sticky tape on it. Sticky side up, as in stuck to bottom of wing, is "reverse" in the Jeti box. Still reverse if sticky side up and above the wing. Sticky side down is "normal" and some use that for inside of the bottom of the fuse. Up and down would be designated as the plane sits level upright.

Stick the tape down at the front of the sensor as the tape moving or vibrating can affect the sensor.

"Put more simply, if I stick it on the bottom of the wing am I normal?" The sensor would be "reverse." As for "am I normal," jury is out :-)

Forward/aft and vertical position don't seem to matter much. I have a friend with the sensor in the battery compartment and up at the hatch opening. Seems to work fine, but the original recommendation is about 30mm aft of CG, or bellcrank pivot.

Now they tell me....................... I got it working OK but now I know why every time I tried to balance insides it changed the outsides instead! You know being a 75 year old expert rookie really sucks.

THANKS!

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2022, 07:19:54 PM »

I had to double check before i commented but mine is reverse as well in that position.

Flying was great tonight until I had a prop strike and the motor went flying and broke another 60.00 igor prop...that makes two

Very minor damage but it was really dialed in nicely.

I am using 10% on the g-force setting and it really does help on top......Darn the plane was flying so well.

Oh well, 30 minutes in the shop and my last Igor prop and I will be ready to go again. I guess I need to get on the list for two more props

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2022, 08:18:22 PM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 13, 2022, 07:19:54 PM

I had to double check before i commented but mine is reverse as well in that position.

Flying was great tonight until I had a prop strike and the motor went flying and broke another 60.00 igor prop...that makes two

Very minor damage but it was really dialed in nicely.

I am using 10% on the g-force setting and it really does help on top......Darn the plane was flying so well.

Oh well, 30 minutes in the shop and my last Igor prop and I will be ready to go again. I guess I need to get on the list for two more props

Do you have a springy tail wheel and use a stooge? I had that happen a couple of times then found out the tail wheel was compressing and sprung up when the stooge let loose. Don't use them anymore.

Ken

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #25 on:** July 13, 2022, 09:04:09 PM »

Ken, I can tell you that being 74 is not much better. And none of us is close to "normal."

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #26 on:** July 14, 2022, 08:46:40 AM »

actually Ken it was my own fault. it was lunched and not on a stooge. I did however tighten the wheel on the outside a little to try and help with tracking on takeoff. Bad idea...it just dug in and provided a prop strike.

I have been using reverse rotation for so long that I have forgotten how to launch a normal rotation airplane. Reverse rotation spoils you.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #27 on:** July 14, 2022, 06:15:18 PM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 14, 2022, 08:46:40 AM

I have been using reverse rotation for so long that I have forgotten how to launch a normal rotation airplane. Reverse rotation spoils you.

It sure does but trying to find a prop in a pinch, cures you of that real quick. I twist my gear so that the inboard wing tip is about 1/2" higher than the outboard. Set it to roll straight or slightly curved in then I walk with it until the motor if fully ramped up. That small initial outboard roll is just enough to account for the torque as it lifts off. I have it roll in because I have found that when the wheels are pushing on the brakes on takeoff it causes problems. It also smooths out the landing roll so that you can brake when you want. You know there sure is a lot more to this takeoff and landing stuff than I thought.

Ken

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2022, 07:57:42 AM »

Ken,

I'm curious, what does the 1/2 higher stance on the inboard side do for the takeoff?

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #29 on:** July 15, 2022, 08:16:16 AM »

Quote from: Tim Stagg on July 15, 2022, 07:57:42 AM

Ken,

I'm curious, what does the 1/2 higher stance on the inboard side do for the takeoff?

Three things, and this came from a World Champion. First it takes the pressure off of the inboard tip from the height differential, so you don't have to crouch down as much to get the lines level with the wings and second it compensates some for the natural inboard roll as the wheels lift off. It is most effective with wing mounted gear where the wheel are wide apart, and third it lets both wheels break ground at the same time. If you do it in excess the plane sits funny. Just enough that you don't notice it when it sits on the ground. I am going to guess that this is not a widespread practice but is does help me keep the plane from doing funny things on lift off.

Ken

Tim Stagg · « **Reply #30 on:** July 15, 2022, 09:19:47 AM »

Ok I may give it a try, I have gear doors on my current gear legs but I have been thinking about making a new set of gear just 3/8 - 1/2" higher to give me a tad more prop clearance.