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Author Topic: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please  (Read 1345 times)

Offline Wynn Robins

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Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« on: September 27, 2010, 05:37:43 PM »
flying season is coming up, down here in New Zealand and I am after some idea on a good size /capacity charging battery

I have looked at some AGM batteries - but the costs are ridiculous.  If I was t use a lead acid battery - what capacity should I be looking for to charge 5 - 6 4000mAh Packs with ease?

my other option, which appears cheaper, it to buy a petrol generator - and use my charger directly off that...

any help appreciated

Thanks

(edit: fixed the pack size)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 06:18:10 PM by Wynn Robins »
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 06:05:52 PM »
did you mean 4000 Mah batteries?
if so, then in round numbers,, ( remembering you will only take about 80% of the battery capacity in use) that's about 4 Ah per charge taking into account the loss inherent in the charger. so charging 4 or5  batteries will take somewhere around 20 amps. Were it me, I would look at a small deep cycle lead acid if you cant justify a Gel cell type. and to insure you had enough capacity, I would not look at a motorcycle battery, but I think there is small tractor type batteries that are around 100 to 150 amp capacity that might be decent,, although, in retrospect, a standard car battery might prove more cost effective, larger capacity, and typically cheaper than the smaller specialty batteries
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Offline bfrog

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 06:19:58 PM »
There is another option. Go to a auto supply store and get one of the jump start units. They usually have a handle and a pair of cables for jump starting your car. They have a small wall wart to charge them, which you can do the night before you take it to the field. You would have to get some idea of the capacity and some of them don't give a good spec on that but see what  you can find. A friend of mine has used these for a field charger. The nice thing is they usually have a cigarette lighter socket in them and you can make an adapter to go directly to the battery charger pretty easily. They are a bit bulky but work well.
Bob Frogner

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 07:23:25 PM »
Dunno if it's necessary, but I'd check the costs on a deep-discharge battery -- car batteries are optimized for starting, and don't live long and happy lives if you run them significantly down on charge very often.  Deep discharge batteries (for RV, boat, or golf carts) are designed for it.

Or get a solar panel and regulator, and spend more on the charger than you did on the planes.
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Offline Peter Mazur

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 08:29:43 PM »
I use a portable jump starter battery like the one Bob Frogner mentioned. It is the Husky HSK012HD from Home Depot, about $50. It has a 12 volt 17Ah gel battery in it and it is extremely convenient to use. The cigarette lighter output is nice but limited to 5A, which effectively means you are limited to charging your 4000mAh packs at 1C. (I assume you are using 3S. If it's 4S you will not even be able to charge at 1C without pushing the 5A limit on the cigarette lighter output wiring.) Connecting more directly to the battery, either by bringing out separate leads from inside or by clipping on to the big clamps that are supposed to go onto the battery terminals of the car you are jump starting, will allow you to charge your pack at higher rates or to charge more than one at a time. I clip onto the big connectors, leaving the whole unit intact in case the three year warranty needs to be invoked.
The battery is not quite big enough to meet your requirements for 5-6 charges, though, so you would need a couple of these. Even so, two at $50 each, complete with wall wart chargers, is a reasonably convenient package. And you might find a brand with a bigger battery in it somewhere, so it might be worth checking around. A 12 volt deep cycle AGM battery of, perhaps, 30-45 Ah capacity would be ideal for your use. It is expensive, but it is non-spillable, a lot tougher if mistreated than a gel battery and will tolerate deep discharge. They are easily available from solar energy outfits such as Northern Arizona Wind and Sun at http://store.solar-electric.com/ or Mr. Solar at http://www.mrsolar.com/index.php (in the USA) They are a lot safer than car batteries because they won't spill even if damaged and the weight is 25-35 lb. Car batteries tend to be a lot heavier, a real pain for some of us old timers.
I have been investigating batteries a lot for 1660 solar power systems I am responsible for in Argentina. I really like AGM if you can afford them.  For highest quality (and, unfortunately, cost) I like the Concorde SunXtender line. The best buy on an AGM battery that might fit your requirements is another brand, the MK 8AU1, 37 Ah, 24 lb., at $81 from Mr. Solar. The next size up in that line, 55Ah, jumps to $147. For $150, I can get the Concorde PVX-490T, 49 Ah, from Northern Arizona Wind and Sun. I would go for the Concorde, but that's my prejudice. Depending on how badly you mistreat these, they should last 5-10 years, so its a long term investment. 
Sorry if this is way more than you needed to hear about expensive AGM batteries. They are good, though.
Pete Mazur

Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 10:59:44 PM »
Hi Wynn,

If cost is not too important then I fully agree with Peter. He did a great job of laying out the many advantages of 12V AGM batteries. Another good source for these, and probably close by in most towns down under, is your local marine store. Most larger pleasure boats, both sail and power, use these. There smallest ones will work for our ECL needs.

With the above said, it is hard to beat the tried and true method used by one of our ECL pioneers, Mike Palko. Mike uses a 12V auto battery. This has great price/performance and ease of charging with your standard inexpensive auto battery charger. It does require Mike's youthful strength, OR a good small wheeled luggage cart like you get at an airport, or wheeled tool cart, with the battery in some form of FG or wood box for protection. I have seen nice DIY boxes with input and output jacks for all charging. 

One of the best compromises is buying two WHEEL CHAIR 12V 20 amp batteries. This is what I use for the rare times that I am flying at a field that does not have 120V power, or solar power. I run one charger off each battery and I can get two full charges on each of my 5S 4000 mAh flight batteries from each 12V battery, or 3 on my 4S. I keep these in one of those wheeled tool boxes from the Home Depot (HW store down under? ;-). Two of these are inexpensive and are much easier to carry than one large 12V. I ordered them on line from one of the big battery suppliers.

One of the guys that flys at our E only RC field uses an excellent Honda generator. As quiet as they are, they are still very LOUD at a quiet ERC field. They smell too. They are really annoying.  No one wants to pit near them and we are all glad when the guy leaves. I almost bought one until I saw it in action. It kind of spoils one of ECL/ERC many benefits: quiet flying. ;-)

The BEST system is the SOLAR system we have at the government parks dept. RC/CL field in Van Nuys CA. This is close to perfect for the ONE ECL flyer (me ;-) and the many ERC flyers at the field. Thanks to the local RC club and the local government we have about 15 12V plug ins for our chargers and a very nice CL/RC field. :-)

As others have mentioned, you can't just divide the 12V batteries capacity by the amps in your battery. A 17 amp 12V will NOT give you 3 full charges of your 4S with 3 amps used, even though it looks like it should. Once your 12V gets a little low your charger will stop and give you a "low V" warning. It takes more extra amps in the 12 V than you think to get the last charge.

Hopefully we will all soon have standard Solar PV units on our cars/vans for recharging our batteries and we can then also use them for our ECL planes. This will be the ideal solution for this issue.  :! 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 09:47:08 PM by Rudy Taube »
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 01:43:00 AM »
The best source until now for me is LiFePo4 12V battery. Compared to gell batteries, it is little bit smaller, it is significantly lighter, far longer life time, chargeable in 1 hour, dischargeable at high current to 0 capacity, it is more expensive.

I used several types of small Lead acid batteries, and they go to low voltage at 50% of discharge (because I used small capacities) and they never survived more that 1 season. So I decided to invest to LeFePo4 20Ah battery which fits to my box. I can charge 4 times (may be also 5 times) my 6sA123. They produce also 40Ah, 80Ah and 100Ah types, but they are too large for me.

Another trick I do is that I use 4s2p packs of old A123 from previous season. It makes 4Ah 12V accumulator which has charge and discharge voltage like lead acid battery. It is pocket source good for one flight.  VD~

Offline Warren Leadbeatter

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 02:42:06 AM »
I just use my car battery and a HobbyKing quatro charger. If the car battery voltage drops too low the charger cuts out with a low input voltage error.  So then I just start the car and let it idle while charging until complete.

Beats carrying around another battery that I have to recharge.
Warren Leadbeatter
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Offline TDM

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 05:51:48 AM »
Is it practical to leave the car idling to charge the battery and to have no battery at all on the field?
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Offline Warren Leadbeatter

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Re: Field Charging Battery Recommendations please
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 06:28:37 PM »
Is it practical to leave the car idling to charge the battery and to have no battery at all on the field?

I dont know about you guys, but when I go flying the car is usually only about 10 or 20 metres/paces away.  I take about 6 batteries with me anyway so I usually only have to recharge them once. The car battery has plenty of power to do this with needing to start the engine.

The only time I need to start it is if I am camping and I have already been using the battery for other things.

Warren Leadbeatter
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