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Electric Stunt => Gettin all AMP'ed up! => Topic started by: Russell Bond on January 08, 2011, 06:38:10 PM
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I just converted my Yatsenko Classic to electric.
At first I put in an Orbit 25-10 but it moved the balance point 1/2" forward, so instead I fitted an Orbit 20-12. This only moved the balance point forward by 1/4". I think this will be quite ok.
I hope to test fly it when the weather is less windy and the locusts have gone!
I had to make the battery hatch on the outboard side as I didn't want to make even more work for myself than I had to. ;D
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Nice grass Russell, Good job on the converson,will be interesting to see how much you have to move the C/G per our phone conversation.Good luck ,Noel.
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Haha....that's my front yard!!
Floods up north....drought in my area. :(
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Good luck with it, Russell!
Big Bear
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looks good - should fly just as well as it did with the Retro in there.
I wonder if the Yatsenko brothers will cater for electric in the future?
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Have you moved Russell?
I didnt know they had power in South Australia - How will you charge the Electric? :!
Hamsters only run so fast...
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:P :P :P :P na# na# na# na#
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8)
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Nice grass Russell, Good job on the converson,will be interesting to see how much you have to move the C/G per our phone conversation.Good luck ,Noel.
Hey Noel, Can you post your setup for your SV11 please?
Regards
Warren
[Home from the Floods]
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Well, I flew it his arvo in windy weather as I wanted to hurry up and try it out.
Worked OK.
I had to speed the controls up slightly by shortening the bell-crank to flap horn by one notch, that was because the CG moved forward.
It was stable in level flight but still turns snappy enough.
The first flight was set at 9350 RPM (13x4.5 prop) and did 5.4 secs/lap. however, as we know electrics don't slow down through the maneuvers, so the speed through them was a little fast. (68' lines center to center.)
I slowed down to 9200 RPM (5.55 secs/lap) and the maneuver speed was much better.
Other than that, nothing exciting to report, except the ESC got hot. I think I'll open the front air intake a fair bit.
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Or make a bigger exit to get the hot air out?
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Russell,
It looks like you have plenty of air going in, but is it properly directed at the heat generating bits, and then allowed out?
My bet is not: for example, I suspect that your motor runs fairly warm. Even though we can easily see it through the large opening, it is probably sitting in a dead-air pocket.
If the ESC is right behind it, then a simple air director may fix both.
How about some pictures of the rest of the installation and air exit? What were the battery and motor temps?
Regards,
Dean P.
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A quick search found several threads on cooling. Here's a couple from the top:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19532.0
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=18725.0
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=12031.0
a quote from John Miller in one of the threads (on slimer power):
"I kept having overheating problems until I actually closed up the inlet to 1/3 the size. Overheating problem gone."
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"I didnt know they had power in South Australia - How will you charge the Electric? :!
Hamsters only run so fast..."
What's a Hamster PJ....? Didn't know we had them here?
Hoffo ~^
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Well, I've now made a scoop on the inboard side of the fuse that is directing air right onto the ESC and then an inch or two after that I have a scoop (reversed) to let (suck) the air out.
If that doesn't work I'll go and take up RC........Naw......just joking!!!!!!! ;D
And this is a message to Bruce.. na# na# .... ;D
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Hi Warren ,I have put my set up in my earlier post.Will try to put it in setups so I don't take over Russell's thread. Noel.
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My cooling problems are fixed.
I removed the two in-board scoops that I had made for the side of the fuselage and made one longer one instead. (I didn't like the look of the two scoops.)
The air goes in the front of the scoop, goes over the ESC in the fuselage and then exits out the rear of the same scoop.
There is a baffle half way along the inside of the scoop that stops the air going straight through.
I painted the stripes on the scoop to match the fuselage and I can't notice it in the air.
I'm thinking of doing this on all my planes in the future. It actually doesn't look too bad.
The temps went from 95c down to a max of 65c. (On a 24c day.)
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A bit more to report.
I reset the controls back to where it was originally and instead I widened the handle spacing 1/2 an inch.
Then I added 1 oz of tail weight and flew it tonight.
Much snappier in the turns and still stable in level flight.
I think the CG is at a good location now.
The wind dropped off a bit so I slowed it down to 9100 RPM and this then made it fly at 5.65 secs/lap.
However, the maneuver speed was still fast enough and the line tension was good. ;D
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Russell,
Can you post some pics of your motor battery and ESC install - I have to oppurtunity to get a Yatsenko for a VERY sharp price and would make it Electric - just wanting ideas on how you did things.
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OK, I'll do that in a few days or so, I'm a bit busy. Don't even have time to fly..... :'(
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OK, I'll do that in a few days or so, I'm a bit busy. Don't even have time to fly..... :'(
any updates Russell? still keen to see your mods
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OK, I'll do that in a few days or so, I'm a bit busy. Don't even have time to fly..... :'(
If you are so busy why do you call me three times a day??? ~> S?P
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Geez, Bruce.
It's 3 times a week, get it right!!!!! mw~ LL~ S?P ;D
And Wynn,
I forgot to take the photos for you, although there is not much to see. All I did was rip out the bearers with multigrips and make a new motor mount. The battery is held in by a plate and velcro.
I'll take some photos and post them here, promise.....really...... ::)
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Geez, Bruce.
It's 3 times a week, get it right!!!!! mw~ LL~ S?P ;D
And Wynn,
I forgot to take the photos for you, although there is not much to see. All I did was rip out the bearers with multigrips and make a new motor mount. The battery is held in by a plate and velcro.
I'll take some photos and post them here, promise.....really...... ::)
that would be cool - still might go the Yatsenko route as I have been let down by another supplier.... I'd hate to screw up a nice model tho....
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Geez, Bruce.
It's 3 times a week, get it right!!!!! mw~ LL~ S?P ;D
Just seems more often!! mw~ S?P
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Hey Bruce,
At least you have one friend that wants to talk to you....hahahaha LL~
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Hey Wynn,
If you order a Yatsenko, you could always get them to leave out the bearers along with all the other ic crap, that way you can make the nose section to your specs.
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The Yatsenkos are currently making electric Sharks. based on Will Moore spec's
If you send them your motor, Battery,ESC,and and timer they will construct a finish model, or a Kit that meets current BOM and Bill R. interpretation of the BOM.
Two E Sharks currently flying in US with more in transit.
The Yatsenkos will be flying electric real soon.
THE "E" REVOLUTION IS ON
Jose Modesto
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The Yatsenkos will be flying electric real soon.
Jose Modesto
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Hi Jose.
After talking with Yuriy & Andrei a few days ago, I must say that I doubt that. The .76 is getting better and better.. L
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Hey Wynn,
If you order a Yatsenko, you could always get them to leave out the bearers along with all the other ic crap, that way you can make the nose section to your specs.
it is one of Paul Lagans that I was looking at - obvioulsy already exists - but still hoping Jose comes through with my SV22........can only buy one or the other - mama camel says so.... y1
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Jose :
Thats the Dumbest thing I've ever read online..
" If you send them your motor, Battery,ESC,and and timer they will construct a finish model, or a Kit that meets current BOM and Bill R. interpretation of the BOM. "
BOM Is really simple : You fly ? You build .
I dont want to distract this away from Russells thread but saying openly they will Build a finished model that meets BOM is just Stupid. It might be " legal " from the persepctive that the AMA has instructed Bill R not to be able to dNq anyone from the Nats - but everyone I know - would look down upon anyone trying to get a Yatsenko built and finished model to be considered BOM.
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The .76 NEEDS to get better as there are three people over here (in Australia) that have had problems with them. ???
Two of them have had nothing BUT problems. They certainly don't run (out of the box) like the .60s do.
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Marks seem'ed perfect to me ...
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Yes, but he didn't tell you how much work there was to fix it.
Smaller venturi to start with along with other mods................
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Hi.
It's not necessary to do any changes. I have several, and after 1 season of learning, they run just fine. The problem is that people try to run them in the way they run the .60's. I only change the needle valve to a Randy's PA valve. But that's just my personal preference, the original is usually just fine too.
I got the first engines that Yuriy gave out, and in the first production run there were some problems with too tight case/liner/piston fit. But the later ones are just fine.
Important things:
-Fuel: In hot weather, 20% oil with max. 5% castor. We use Motul Micro Synthetic oil (15%). In cold weather you can use slightly more castor (still total 20% of oil). Remember that all synthetic oils are not good, some cause detonation. We've tested several and found that Motul Micro is so far the best, it has a high flame point and good resistance for mechanical pressure, like castor oil. If you cannot find Motul oil, then allways test other oils back to back with all-castor fuel. But the .76 runs so much hotter than .60 that you cannot use more castor for a longer period.
-The .76 likes to run hot, a lot hotter than .RD .60. But with more synthetic oil it's not a problem. The only thing is that you must be more sure that fuel tanks thermal insulation is good, to prevent the fuel from heating from the thermal radiation of engine & muffler.
-The original 4-chamber muffler is very restrictive and the engine seems to like it. It's not necessary to do any modifications.
-Propeller: 6" pitch is too much, the .76 likes more rpm. We de-pitch the Yuriy's 14,2"x6" CNC prop to 5,25-5,5" (at Prather gauge slot #10). Done like that, the pitch at slot #13 should be 4,25-4,5". So, to make the pitch distribution exponential we heat & twist the blades only from the root.
My best props (for Shark) are :5,5" at #10, 4,25" at #13 and I set the engine so that it runs at constant 2-stroke with just an occasional 4-stroke burp before launching. But the ground setting depends on the fuel tank type and position so it will not be the same in differend models.
-Good glow plugs: Russian KC-2, Thunderbolt "Big bore & 4-stroke", OS "F"
-I also work a little with piston fit (to eliminate high friction spots during run-in) and shaft bearings to make them better but that's not absolutely necessary to make the engine work well.
-If you have problems with the .76, the best thing is to send it back to Yuriy for an analysis & repair. For some reason he knows a lot about them. L
Btw, this is a thread about electric planes..
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As I said; The (standard) .76 does not run as well as the .60 and for the price you pay for a Yatsenko, it should!
You shouldn't have to sand down the piston etc.
Fitting a PA spray bar is almost mandatory as the standard ones are not well made.
PA's and Ro-Jetts run perfectly "out of the box". (Along with Enya and lots of others.)
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The ones that you have bad experience with are propably from the first production run. My last ones are just fine without any rework. I recommend to send them back to Yuriy for control. Before that, try what I wrote about fuel and prop.
I've heart many people whining that there is "too much power". That is the impression you get from the engine when you use wrong prop & fuel. L
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Now PJ you and i will have a personal conversation AT THE NAT'S with the insult of calling some one specially on the forum DUMB.
You must understand that the rules for Nat's are as they were last year. A full COMPONENET KIT IS LEGAL. That means that a ARC(all alignments done by pilot) is legal as long as you apply the entire finish.
These kits are currently available from the Yatzenkos. Further if you send them your Electric hardware they will construct an electric kit.
with the new technology being employed the pilot MUST APPLY THE ENTIRE FINISH and do aliment "ARC"
SO PJ YOU AND I HAVE A DATE FOR A BEER AND SPIRRITED CONVERSATION AT THE NAT'S.
PJ YOU QOUTE ME "If you send them your motor, Battery,ESC,and and timer they will construct a finish model, or a Kit that meets current BOM and Bill R. interpretation of the BOM"
In the quote above it says FINISH MODEL OR A KIT obviously the kit version is BOM the finish model is not. READ YOUNG MAN
The flyer's that are constructing these kits have an agreement not to publish photos of models before June first.
The Current Yatsenko models meet Bill Rich more stringent BOM were it outlaws all hard,fiberglass gel coat outer surface JUST A TEASE
PJ here in the states we run our hands over the finish and if you ca feel the transition from color to color thats not good. WORD OF ADVISE get to wet sanding i can see the ridges in your finish.
PJ THERE WILL BE SHARKS AT THE NAT'
ONE LAST ITEM $50.00 On THAT I WILL PLACE HIHGER THAN YOU and another $50.00 that i will outscore you in appereance.i will fly one of my composite "Impact Masters" all home built including the molds cant get more BOM than that .
Jose Modesto.
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Jose ;
One thing you will learn quite quickly from me - Is I don't back down.
I will have NO problem having a face to face conversation with you. I didnt call you Dumb what I said it was the Dumbest thing i've read I dont shy away from that statement...
It FLIES in the face of BOM - I've followed all the BOM arguments on here - I know your position you have made it quite clear.. I disagree with one or two of the things you say... and disagree with the current BOM interpretation like many of my peers.
Your entitled to your opinion & I RESPECT you opinion - Mine just differs.
There are slight ridges in my finish - Im aware of that - If I wanted to come over to be front row of the Concourse - I would set out to build a model to acheive that goal.. My Goal is to make a Top 20 competitive ship - light with a fair / good finish. My immediate goal is to make Top 20. ( Like you did last year ) If you outscore me in that goal - I will shake your hand and congratulate you on being better. y1
If you finish above me in apperance and Nats scores ; I will happily congratulate you.
Your an excellent flier - Excellent builder of composite materials Im envious of your abilty to mold and build the way you do and you have a formidable record - I acknowledge that and sincerely applaude your skills. All of your Composite Models you build are compliant with BOM, the Impact you have is very nice indeed.
In fact - Dont you live in New York ? Im travelling down there after the Nats to see the Town ( 1st time for me ) Perhaps I can get your address and visit your shop to see how you build ?
The issue is - If I buy one from you - I wouldnt say I built it! depsite being BOM legal under the rules..
However My point was : Sending your engine over to have someone else build the plane for you , and you paint it, isnt in the spirit of BOM. I dont care WHAT the rule interpretation is. That is MY OPINION.
Its BUILD your own model. Its pretty simple mate. - Not Paint your own Kit.
Come say G'day to me - You know what my inferior plane looks like.
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I dont do bets generally- however I'm prepared to see your wager with $50 of my own..
Lets bet : YOU wont make Top 20 in 2011 ?
When you did it in 2010 last year ( 18 )
There were some notable absentee's - 8 fliers who placed in the Top 20 2009 - whom were not there in 2010
" Quote Jose : ONE LAST ITEM $50.00 On THAT I WILL PLACE HIHGER THAN YOU "
One more thing to remember before you make any more Wild bets...
You didnt beat me last time you flew against me in 2004 NATS.
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Quote Jose : "another $50.00 that i will outscore you in appereance.i will fly one of my composite "Impact Masters"
I'd better get your $ 50 in advance ready to hand it to you & conceed defeat: I can see you have raised the bar.
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k554/pjaussie/IMG_6997.jpg)
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Sorry about the laundry Russell . :-X
Obviously mark is a Top engine guy - he said he tweaked it here and there.. that was the extent of the conversation!
The guy is a World Champion in racing .. obviously he can get anything working.
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And I thought " AMP"ed UP was the Aeroplanes . :##
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I'm cool Matt.
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No pj your model is real good. The ink work is reminiscent of Jimmy Cassale.The model will score well in AP Just that your 2004 model had a similar paint job and you can see the ridges in the paint color.
Remember its a spirited conversation that we will have.
PJ we have a bet $50.00 for placing and 50.00 for AP points.
To keep it electric My new model is Epower. my new Yatsenko E SHARK COMPONENT KIT, BOM compliant will not arrive in time for me to construct and finish
There should be 3 others entered unfortunately non are E power.
The challenge for you is that the CURRENT BOM will allow the models as described. these models fit within the rules.
This has been the state of CL for over 30 years.
I was just looking at a BOB HUNT catalog from the early 70's that included fully sheeted wings,stabs,flaps and elevators all in foam with balsa leading,trailing edges with wing mounted gear. Final assembly and finishing by the pilot. PJ that's 37 years ago the only difference today is that you get the fuse.
The yatsenko's new technology spurred on by Bill Rich Interpretation has allowed them to produce what Bob Hunt produced in 1973 with the addition of the fuse. PJ Frank Williams is being allowed to fly an ARC at the Nat's
C U AT THE NAT'S we my have a hard time finding Fosters for our spirited conversation.
Jose Modesto
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Jose - can you get on with my SV22 please!!!!
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No Drama's Jose .
I sincerely didnt mean any disrespect by my comments - they were not directed toward you - more at what the rules implied.
As to my 2004 model - I placed last in appearance points - lowest score possible. It was embaressing and a complete waste of my time.
There were no ridges on that one - it was 100% airbrushed, and sanded, the PROBLEM was very unfortunate.
4 week prior to leaving, I Hit a bird and wrote 1/3 of the model off. I spent close to 72 hours straight rebuiding the entire fuse, saved the wing, and tailplane, and had to repaint and reblend the airbrush. My problem was : Because of the clear I used at the time, When I tried to clear it all - I got severer Fisheye - where the clear reacts with the oil surface underneath of the previous clear. In highsight, I should have stripped 100% of the model back and re-airbrushed it all. I wasnt looking forward to another 100 hrs pf airbrushing - So i chose not to.
That was 1st problem..
2nd : When I was over in the US the week of practice, my engine quit upside down on the tarmac and I landed on the nose - had to patch it during the hotel with something from a news agency. It looked aweful from a surface perspective.
I thought placing last was generous.
I wont make the same mistake this time around!
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Dont worry about the fosters - Im a bouron and Coke man - surely we can find that.
With the $ 100 I will win, Im sure we can find a nice little haunt to have a few relaxers and have some laughs.
I dont have any issues with anyone flying sharks, arf, arc, composites, anything - In australia we dont' have BOM so I often fly against these models. I think they are built well - I cannot afford one.
I agree with all your points, about the Hunt wings, ect.. - I just stand by the point of view that if you get someone to build you a modle its not in the spirit of Building your own plane. - Using a Hunt foam wing is acceptable ( IN MY OPINION ) there is still alot of work to be done..
Jose - we are treading old old old ground here - and I know Russel personally, he might set his dogs on me for Thread drifting, this isnt the place for this conversation.
I apologise if you thought I inferred you were Dumb - it was not my intention - simply that the rule interpretation is... I will shake the hand of any flier who beats me - be it Shark, Impact composite, or home built. From my persective I put MONTHS and MONTHS worth of work into my planes - sometimes I get it right sometimes i get it wrong.
How about seeing your shop after the Nats ? Im going to NY after for a week. I plan to see Bob Hunts shop - Yours would be good also.
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hey PJ - can you pick up my SV22 when you're there??? S?P S?P S?P
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If its finished Wynn - Sure ;) S?P
*removed*
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If its finished Wynn - Sure ;) S?P
BTW Wynn - Loved your Shark.
shark???
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Whoops - wrong person..
Sorry.... I was thinking of Will Moore.. ~^
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I reported this thread to the moderator. Way out of hand and not electric stunt at all.
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The early part of the thread is highly relevant.
Maybe the BOM stuff can be removed or tacked onto one of the other BOM threads?
Is there a Stalker .76 thread for the engine setup posts? I think they could be of interest if placed somewhere people can find them.
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Criss my initial response was to the availability if electric Yatsenko models.
The electric Shark is posted in the E section.
I added that you did not need to purchase a gas model for conversion that the Yarsenkos can provide you with an Electric ready to fly OR an ARC that meets US BOM.
No harm No foul on my part.
My response was to the original thread about Yatsenko electric models.
Photo #1 Impact electric fuse
Photo #2 William Demauro all composite "E"SV22
photo #3 composite plug in wing and tail "E" SV22
Jose Modesto
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Criss my initial response was to the availability if electric Yatsenko models.
The electric Shark is posted in the E section.
I added that you did not need to purchase a gas model for conversion that the Yarsenkos can provide you with an Electric ready to fly OR an ARC that meets US BOM.
No harm No foul on my part.
My response was to the original thread about Yatsenko electric models.
Photo #1 Impact electric fuse
Photo #2 William Demauro all composite "E"SV22
photo #3 composite plug in wing and tail "E" SV22
Jose Modesto
Photo 3 is my one right??? can you get it to a stage where I can plug it together - and then send it to me - i'll paint it and finish it
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The early part of the thread is highly relevant.
Maybe the BOM stuff can be removed or tacked onto one of the other BOM threads?
Is there a Stalker .76 thread for the engine setup posts? I think they could be of interest if placed somewhere people can find them.
No, it's ALL going to be deleted, once the moderator is convinced that everyone kissed and made up.
Are we all okay, now?
Regards,
Dean P. (the P is for patient)
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My fault for commenting initially. I didnt expect it to Turn " negative "
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You can delete it all Dean - its irrelivant. - Id prefer it to not be thrown into the BOM argument section - it needs no more fuel.
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No no, it's not the Stalker .76, it is the Discovery-Retro .76 that we are talking about that has given some problems.
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We all know Stalker runs flawless. ;D