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Author Topic: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics  (Read 1698 times)

Offline RickS

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Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« on: September 24, 2009, 11:48:53 PM »
Hi everyone,
 
I thought I  would share my latest project with fellow electric stunt flyers.  The plane is an original design built in 1964. It was rather large for its day with a 62 inch span and 670 sq inches of wing.  Power at that time was the perennial Fox 35 and as flown in 1964 it weighed 47 oz.  (50 oz after 45 years of wall hanging!!!)  It won at several meets in the Mid-west that year and was replaced by some semi-scale ships for the following year.  It has been hanging on the wall for the past 45 years.
 
 I have been enjoying electric stunt for the past 5 years and so far have built/flown 8 different models over that period and have competed successfully with several of them..  Recent conversations with the Adamisins included the " wonder what some of our "older" planes would fly like if electrified".   Bingo.. a perfect test plane was on the wall.  After about 5 hours of work, the original motor/tank/firewalls  were  easily removed and replaced with "space" for electric components. I installed my favorite motor size an AXI 2826/12 which I have 4 years of experience with and have great phrase for and have recommended to many,  running a 12/6 APCE with a 4 cell 3700 battery pack controlled by PX 45 and Hubin timer, another item I also highly recommend.  Electric power systems have really developed over the past several years and they are truly "plug and play" at the current time.
 
The plane was flown this past week for several flights and I was extremely impressed by the power  and consistency of having an electric system in this aircraft.  The plane did gain 11 oz in the conversion but even at 61 oz, the 670 sq inches seem to handle it very well.  Seeing it on the end of the lines brought back many wonderful memories of flying it 45 years younger.  Needless to say full stunt patterns from  the second flight on, it felt so natural.  I remembered Dennis Adamisins words about flying familiar models,  "Like an old favorite comfortable pair of shoes".  He is  absolutely correct.
 
I am writing this to encourage others  to think seriously about doing the same.  I'm sure we all have "old hanger queens" hanging on our  walls or in our  garages.  Seriously , you should think about converting them to electric power.  The conversion should not be that difficult. You might be really amazed at what  enhanced flight performance you might now see.  In addition I'm sure it will bring  a smile to your face as you try on once again  an " old comfortable pair of shoes".
 
Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts with you,
 
Richard Sawicki
 
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2009, 06:31:04 AM »
Wow, talk about a walk through the time warp!

When my family first started flying CLPA in the early 1960's Rick the THE MAN.  His yellow and black "Sunburst" design was the epitome of functional performance.   Simple/straight forward design built with a minimal amount of wood and maximum peformance. Since Rick and his dad (and later his little brother) flew almost every event on the field, it was also important tha the bird be ready to grab and go.  Fox 35 on 670 squares?  No one knew ya couldn't do that back then!  Turn that around a little, because it would fly well on a Fox 35 & 10x6, the Axi with a 12x6 is a huge power up.

I am also doubly amazed that the old airframe has survived as it has.  That is a LONG time for a doped I-beam to hold out - obviously very well built to start with and handle with care ever since.  Of course, being that its electric, will save some of the wear and tear of wiping it down every flight.

Way to go Rick, and THANK YOU for taking this one on!
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Bill Ervin

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 02:26:36 PM »
That's a great story Rick! Thanks for sharing it with us.  Hmmm, your plane and I are about the same age but your plane seems to be in much better condition.

Offline RickS

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2009, 12:14:46 AM »
Hi Gentlemen,

Dennis,

Thank you very much for your very kind and meaningful response, it means a lot to me.

Isn't it really wonderful that  both our families go back  over 45 years in sharing this wonderful hobby together.  We, personally both have that same 45 years of memories to share and relive in many future discussions.   That's great, and something I look forward to very much.

Yes. its a "no brainer"...an AXI with a 12/6 is far superior to a Fox with a 10/6   period.

I will admit that I was a llittle worried  that I would hear a little cracking on the I-beam silkspan covering...but fortunately it held up well and I look forward to many more memories to be relived in future flights.

Bill,

Thanks for your kind comments, I'm very glad you enjoyed reading it.   I guess that you personally do not have very many "45 year old hangar queens" in your collection since that is  close to your current age!!!   However I still have another 7 or so  still hanging... all same vintage... so if you're interested in a project...hummmm...

Hopefully my write-up has "put the bug" into others to try the same. I found the modification to be very easy and extremely rewarding and I'm sure you will too

Thanks again,

Rick Sawicki
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Offline bob branch

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2009, 07:12:16 PM »
Having been there to fly with Rick and see him fly this old bird it was I have to say pretty impressive. The 2826/12 is a wonderful match for models this size and if you look at the specs you will find the T-rex is the same size. The model Rick flew was built much heavier in its day 45 years ago than we build today and if built for electric from first intention would easily come out 10 ounces lighter. Rick and I have trimmed together all summer and this bird has come in very quickly. I've always heard stories from local fliers of Ricks planes from back in the day, was a pleasure to see one in the air. Now if we can convince him to convert some of those scale beauties he flew back in the same era that followed this bird, we'd really have a treat.

Get to work Rick!

bob branch

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2009, 08:22:03 PM »
Hi Rick,
 It was a real pleasure meeting you last week and seeing your E-planes fly. I'm sure that this one flew just as good as the ones you had out when I saw you. Hopefully next time I come out, I'll have more time to spend at the field and hang out with you guys.
William
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Dave Adamisin

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2009, 11:56:45 AM »
Having been there to fly with Rick and see him fly this old bird it was I have to say pretty impressive. The 2826/12 is a wonderful match for models this size and if you look at the specs you will find the T-rex is the same size. The model Rick flew was built much heavier in its day 45 years ago than we build today and if built for electric from first intention would easily come out 10 ounces lighter. Rick and I have trimmed together all summer and this bird has come in very quickly. I've always heard stories from local fliers of Ricks planes from back in the day, was a pleasure to see one in the air. Now if we can convince him to convert some of those scale beauties he flew back in the same era that followed this bird, we'd really have a treat.

Get to work Rick!

bob branch

I second that idea for the Semiscale beauties. I've not only seen these,...... I flew em. They are GREAT stunters.

Offline Arch Adamisin

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2009, 10:21:28 PM »
I wasn't fortunate enough to fly Rick's models but I did see them in action and they are marvelous designs. He has a night fighter version of the Dornier 335, a very nice looking F-4 and a fantastic P-40.
Hopefully, with a little luck, we are going to have these models drawn up in CAD during the winter. Rick no longer has the plans for them but he does have the models, so the plans won't be that hard to do.Maybe he'll share some photos of his designs. These were just some of the exceptional models that we were privileged to see during the late 60's and early 70's.     

     Arch

Offline RickS

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 01:01:43 AM »
Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your responses and very nice comments, they are all greatly appreciated.

Bob,
  Thanks to your and Frank Carlisle's  help and suggestions we were able to get the "old buggy" trimmed and "contest ready" in only 4 flights. Now if only I can get my reflexes back to where they were 45 years ago (?????)  I'll have a winning combination once again. Regarding the 2826/12 question, well,  you  personally were there and saw it pull a 62 inch, 670 sq in,  61 oz plane very easily through the entire pattern several times.  I would highly recommend that you try it in your T-Rex.  It should pull it easily and if you were to need more power then you could easily go to 5 cells on the same motor.  I've used them for 4 years and have found them extremely  reliable and highly recommended their use.

Will,
  Yes, it was a real pleasure for me also, meeting you, having some wonderful conversation,  and also sharing flying the many electric planes we had at the Midwest flying field that day.  Please visit us again and we can all spend another great day together.  We should  plan to make this a more frequest outing.

Dave,
  Thanks for your rsponse and encouragement to bring back to life some of the semi-scale planes that are "also" still hanging on the wall in the "airplane room".  Yes, you flew them all, and I hope that the pictures of them that I have attached below will bring back many happy memories of the same planes you flew in the late 60's (and provided excellent feedback back to me).  Thanks....a guarantee..you will get to fly them..or their clones again.

Arch,
Thanks a lot for your kind comments and  especially for our 45 year friendship.  Yes, with your help we will get them CADed up this winter and Yes, they will fly again...I did promise that to your brother (above).  I hope you enjoy the pictures I  have included below of the Dornier 335, P-40 Warhawk and F-4 Phantom...all built 65 thru 68 when I was still very active in Stunt...before  the Carrier "addiction" hit our family.

A big thanks to everyone once again, your coments are greatly appreciated,

Rick Sawicki
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Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 08:25:06 PM »
Hi Rick:

I would be very interested in plans for the Do335, as I have been considering building one based on a Shark 45, which is already pretty close to the correct planform and has trike gear. Didn't know someone had long ago built one! I assume there is no rear prop, that this is front engined tractor only. I am fiddling with the idea of an E-powered 335 with BOTH engines powered, a drive shaft to the rear like the full scale aircraft. If this was really a 1968 or older build it is classic legal to boot!


Offline walterbro

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 08:18:14 AM »
Hi Mike-

If you want to build a twin electric Do 335 you will not need a shaft.
You can use one timer two ESCs and one Battery(or more). It will work
out to be much lighter and simpler to build. Each motor can be set to
drive a tractor or pusher prop. I have two twins and enjoy flying them.
 Walt Brownell

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2009, 09:23:12 AM »
I think we are hijacking this thread, so with apologies ...

Walt, I have seen photos of your twin and it looks interesting. With E-power the motors can be anywhere on the airframe and the battery used to balance, at least in theory. Structural integrity is still an issue of course. For a push-pull twin I have in mind a smaller lighter motor in the rear and the battery or batteries located to balance. I am concerned about the weight of the rear motor at the end of a long moment arm, thus the drive shaft idea, if this thing is to be a capable stunter and not just a novelty. The 335 has functional air scoops in the right places so that helps, and the tall fuselage allows a lot of room to locate the battery in the right place. Could be interesting. Needs some careful thought and planning. It is exciting to be in on the beginning of a new technology. A purpose-built stunter not based on a real aircraft would be easier but this is a fun idea to pursue.

I guess the fundamental question is, "What can a push-pull twin do that a single tractor (or pusher) cannot?" (Apart from look really cool) Another issue is "how do you hold and launch a CL model with a powered rear prop?" Maybe set the timer to start the rear motor after launch? Use a stooge for ALL flights?

Dave Adamisin

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2009, 01:34:37 PM »
Hi Rick. The launch shot of the P-40 has a sizable crowd in the background. Was this at the Nats or at the Willow Run air show???

Offline RickS

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2009, 02:45:04 PM »
Gentlemen,

Once again thanks a lot for your interest and responses,

Mike,
Yes, I  would be very happy to share the plans with you. As mentioned above, Arch Adamisin has offered to help me get them CADed up this winter. Originals wee pretty elementary and I doubt I  can find them after 45 years!   Regarding authenticity for Classic stunt I  am including a photo taken by Charlie Reeves of the Dornier at the 1966 Chicago Nats. Please note date clearly shown on photo edge.

Dave,
Yes, once again you have a great memory. The shot of the P-40  being launched was taken at one of the Annual Willow Run events.  Your dad was always there and narrated the stunt pattern for the spectators.  Great show, I flew in it  every year for the 4 years they had it.  I  especially loved being invited to the evening dinner with the Blue Angels and Bob Hoover, , all really great guys.

Attached below are some additional photos..hope you enjoy them.

thanks  again to everyone for your interest,

Rick Sawicki
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Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2009, 09:38:07 PM »
Hi Rick:

The Do335 looks like an I-beamer. If you can put me on a list or something to alert me when the plans are available, I would appreciate it. Absolutely no rush on this as I have my building projects for the next two or so years lined up. Oh, by the way ... how did it fly? And does it still exist?

And how did you persuade that pretty young helper to assist in a smelly oily hobby like this?

Offline RickS

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2009, 12:38:45 AM »
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your interest.  Yes, the Dornier 335 and in addition the P-40 and the F-4 were all I-beam aircraft.  I grew up and still live in the Detroit Metro area.  The I-beam originated in this area in the very early 50's. I remembered seeing some of the early greats flying them at that time.  My Dad was an avid model airplane builder since the early 30's  and  a great model competitor.  I grew up with us visiting Rouge Park ( the home of the Strathmoor club) on  most weekends from about 1950 on. I  Loved the I-beamers and when I started building my own  design stunters starting in 1958 I incorporated the I-beam into the next 8 that I built.  

Yes the Dornier..as well as 5 others are all still on the wall in the airplane room.  The Dornier was entered and placed in a few contests in 1966 and 67.  However it was heavier ( trike and a lot more wood..it had a Super Tigre 46 in it) than the P-40 and  I  often had a hard time flying it in strong winds since I only weighed 120 lbs at the time...unfortunately more now!  The  P-40 was lighter  (K&B 45) and became my favorite until 1968 when I started using the F-4.

The young lady in the pictures was my wife, who was well trained in model handling and launching. She knew from the start that the planes came as a "package with me".  She also, and I kid you not, "enjoyed' wiping the planes off and liked to polish them frequently.

Yes, I will definitely send you a set of the plans when Arch Adamisin and I get together to CAD them this winter.  It should be easy since the original is still here.

Thanks,
Rick Sawicki
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Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Even 45 year old stunters can convert and fly well as electrics
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2009, 04:58:36 PM »
Rick, you are a fortunate fellow all around! My wife is very supportive of my hobby (this one anyway) but it stops way short of polishing the models and being my launcher!

As for old models, I still have the Goldberg Viking FF I flew in the 1963 Nats at Los Alamitos NAS. Plus a Shoestring Stunter I scratch-built while living in a 400-year-old farmhouse in Tuscany in 1974. The latter still flies but not the former.


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