Jerry,
Very nice job, neat equipment installation. On mine I originally had the battery in a pocket under the outboard wing with a TP 4S - 2200 (6.9 oz.). The smaller TP 5S - 1350 mah pack (at 5.43 oz.) works because of the BadAss 2320 -820Kv motor and the cut down APCE P prop sized at 8 1/2" diameter and pitched up to 6 3/4", set at 9600 rpm, allows for a full 5 min flight with 15% left in the tank.

Prop diameter and rpm are the two biggest factors to amp draw. With the lighter battery it needed to be moved forward to keep the CG in range. Other big amp savings was switching to 0.012" lines from 0.015" that I had been using. Might try some Specta lines which could be 0,010" diameter. I need to get more information on how to make-up the terminations, could give a little extra margin or allow a full 9" diameter prop or more with the same pack.

Best,   DennisT

Success!!! Did a full 5 min flight (good for OTS) today in my E Ringmaster with the BadAss 2320 - 820Kv at 9600 fixed rpm; Thunder Power 5S 1350 mah pack; 60' C to C, 0.012" stainless steel braided lines, lap time 4.7 sec; 8 1/2" diameter by 6.7" pitch APCE P prop (9 x 6 cut and re-pitched). This combination in a Ringmaster saves almost 4 oz over most of the E power packages currently used in Ringmaster size ships to my knowledge. 

Happy New Year,       DennisT

Quote from: Dennis Toth on December 27, 2021, 03:58:01 PM
Success!!! Did a full 5 min flight (good for OTS) today in my E Ringmaster with the BadAss 2320 - 820Kv at 9600 fixed rpm; Thunder Power 5S 1350 mah pack; 60' C to C, 0.012" stainless steel braided lines, lap time 4.7 sec; 8 1/2" diameter by 6.7" pitch APCE P prop (9 x 6 cut and re-pitched). This combination in a Ringmaster saves almost 4 oz over most of the E power packages currently used in Ringmaster size ships to my knowledge. 

Happy New Year,       DennisT

Good results! 

You can get pretty close to that power package weight with a 4s setup if you use a 1550mah battery and something like a Park 480 or Cobra 2808 or Arrowind 2810 (or a 3530 Motor by the can OD measurement method.)   Timer/Battery/ESC/Motor weight should come in around 10oz all together. 

Brent,
The only 4S - 1550 mah pack I can see is a Glacier  75C. My flight drew 1120 mah out of the TP 5S - 1350 mah giving 17% left in the pack, a little close but close enough. Doing a simple 5 cell to 4 cell convert gives 1400 mah out of a 1550 pack leaves 9.6% left really close, could work. Could save a bit more amps if the prop is cut fo 8 1/4" diameter. Price for the Glacier is $18.50 the TP list is $41.99. Weight of the Glacier is 160 gm vs 157 gm for the TP. Looks like something worth looking into. Only issue is that the 4S is 90mm length and the 5S is only 68mm. With the 5S it fits on the nose were a tank would go, it just fits and gets the balance in the right place. You would need to maybe use a little shorter motor can and setup the motor position to clear the 4S pack length.

Not sure the other motors will hit the same amp draw as the BadAss, to get to the needed amp draw it needs to have a ground amps of less than 15 amp with the 4S, 12 amp with the 5S. Only $6 difference between the Cobra motor and the BadAss, so motor cost is a push. I think my current motor will work with the 4S so might give it a try.

Best,    DennisT

Finally, we got some flyable weather. The ship is 33oz with a BadAss 2320  820kV motor on a Thunder Power 5S - 1350mah ProLite pack. ESC is a Castle Creation 35A Talon, timer ZTron. I run an APCE P - 8 1/2x6 3/4 prop (cut down and pitched up APCE P 9x6) at 9650 rpm, on 60' FINS 40G 45LB Test (C to C) Spectra lines, 4.75 sec lap time. This setup save about 1 3/4oz over the commonly use 1800 - 2200 packs.

The FINS 40G Spectra lines are very low drag and saved 4% battery capacity compared to 0.012" stainless steel cable that would be used with this size/wt shipI took the S1 Electric Ringmaster out and tested the FINS 40G, 45LB Test (0.009" diameter) Spectra lines. The objective was to see if using thinner, lighter Spectra lines would reduce drag and use less mah from the pack giving a little more head room in the TP 5S - 1350mah pack. Short answer is we have a winner!!

The I did a first test was the 0.012" stainless steel cable lines (my baseline) vs. PowerPro Maxcuatro 40 LB Test, 0.010" diameter lines. For the SS cable lap time was 4.7; PPMax lap time was 4.8 sec. On the PPMax the plane felt very solid and I didn't notice any real difference in the maneuver's, estimated pull was about 7 lbs. At the end of the test the battery voltage on SS Cable was 18.4V the PPMax was 17.6V, just above cutoff.

Yesterday, the test was with the FINS 40G lines, prepared like the PPMax, double surgeons knot (per the posted video Mike Stinson) using the Larks Head to secure the line clip. Pull tested the lines and all was good to go. Switch on - off we go. Ship felt really good and solid, speed felt right, control response was solid, no sponginess or delay, even when I purposely banged a hard corner just to see.  Lap time was 4.69 sec right on top of the lap time for the 0.012" stainless steel braided cable (4.7 sec).  After the flight comes the real data to see if there is any benefit. Pack is TP 5S - 1350mah, end voltage 18.5V, mah put back on recharge 1093. This left 257 mah in the pack 19%. That is ~4% more reserve that with the 0.012" SS cable so by my tests I have achieved my gold of reducing the amp draw and allows good battery life with this setup.

Best,    DennisT

Update on electric S1 Ringmaster - the FINS G40 - 45LB lines have worked very well no stretch or change in control setting. Battery TP 1350mah 5S, usage has been consistent as well with a 15% reserve and lap time of 4.75 sec. One thing that has been a problem is this ship has not been happy doing vertical eights. It kinda does it but not smooth or really round. I have the hinge line sealed and balance is at 17%, it handles all other maneuvers just fine. I'm starting to think that it is losing speed in the top loop (too small a prop) an loosing tension to were it is opening up the loop (Netzband wall?).

Normally with IC one would just lean it out a bit and pickup the speed to see if that did it, but with the electric I am limited on available capacity. I want to add more prop so I did a lot of searches and found the a HobbyStar 5S 1600mah 120C pack (equivalent to about 1950mah 4S) that is 78 mm long and weights about 1oz heavier but fits in the same nose space as the 1350 pack but it should allow a full wide blade 9x6.5. One other thing I might try is opening up the line spacing a bit, maybe not getting as much down elevator as I think I'm putting in for this maneuver.

I think it the ship just needs more pulling power to get through the top outside loop smoothly. Battery should get here in a couple weeks. Till than may try the big prop for short flights.

Best,   DennisT

This has been some week for the S1. After getting the new 5S  1600mah HobbyStar battery and finally getting the deans connector clean and reliably connecting it was time to see what props would work since I have more head room. The original set up with the TP 5S  1350mah 25C ProLite worked ok but seemed a little soft particularly in the vertical eight. I checked a few things and decided I might have the controls set up to slow. I compared it to my Stuka and El Diablo and it was considerably slower. I decided to increase the line spacing to the same as I use on the El D. This puts it at 4 1/2" up from 4". I find that particularly in outside maneuvers I go to a comfortable amount of down and that seems to be a little to open for this ship.

On to the prop tests. The motor rpm stays at 9650 to allow low amp draw and still allows the ESC to hold the fixed rpm. Props are all APCE -P. I did a ground test with three props: a cut/repitched 10x5.8 cut to 9 1/2" and pitched up to 7; an 11x5.5 cut to 9 1/8" and pitched up to 7.5 and a 10 x 5.8 pitch up to 7.  The 9 1/2 drew 18.5 amps; the 9 1/8" drew 20 and the 10 drew 17.5 amps. This is were the week got weird.

With the original 1350 pack setup I had an 8 1/2 x 7 prop at a lap time of 4.7. This was a little slow for me and felt soft. At the field the first test was set for a 30 sec flight to get a lap time and do a loop, climb/dive and feel the ship. First up I tried the 9 1/8 x 7.5. This gave a very solid feel and strong climb/dive and loop at 4.5 sec lap time. I then go to change props and put the 9 1/2 x 7 on an as I am tightening the prop nut, boom the shaft sheers. I do not gorilla tighten things so it was a surprise when it popped. Back to the shop to find another adapter. Luckly, I had several 4mm spares so I was back in business.

Next day out to the field again all set with the 9 1/2x7. Switch on and as I am on the take-off roll I get a little downward pitching but took of fine. Flew the test and felt very strong, as good as the 9 1/8" so it seemed like a very good prop. Lap time was 4.57 sec. Then as it timed out and the break hit there was an odd noise and it landed. Going over to the ship I see the motor mount broken and half off the fuse. Ok any landing you can walk away from is good, so back to the shop. This was my own fault for being lazy after the crash of the first ship. The motor mount was cracked and instead of making a new one I put in some glue and pushed it together. Lesson learned. New mount built and installed and out to the field for test of the 10x7. This was a very good strong prop but the loops seemed a little bigger than with the 9 1/2. Lap time was 4.5.

Once I built the new motor mount and got it installed I noticed that the mount bolts seemed like they were not getting tight, looking at the connection the fuse was being squeezed. In an effort to save weight on the new fuse I didn't put any hardwood mounts in the area were the mount bolts through the fuse, just the 1/32" plywood sides and fiberglass. This was not good and I had a bad feeling that it would not be long before the bolts ripped out, so I decide to cut into the fuse and add the hard maple hard points where the bolts hold the mount. This worked out well and in a few hours I was able to epoxy in the hard points and some filler blocks, reshape and seal and be ready for flying today. Did a second test with the 9 1/2" x7 and it felt very good, loop was tighter than the 10" so this looks like the base prop. Next will be a full pattern.

Great amount of information for a newbie. Thanks for sharing. Awaiting delivery of my Ringmaster S1.

This is an old thread but I'd like to finish it off by giving a final update on what I believe is a great setup for an S1 Ringmaster. After trying all the prop tricks to keep the weight down and use the TP 5S 1350mah pack I finally decided that the real problem that the ship was having was that the prop was just not big enough and not biting to pull it through up top. After testing several arrangement I came upon the Bad Ass 2814 980Kv motor. This was matched with a HobbyStar 4S 1800mah pack and most important a Master Airscrew GF 10x7 (flat back tractor) set rpm at 10,000. Also added 3 degrees of motor offset. This package pulls the ship on 60' C to C lines (Fins 40G, 45lb test) at a lap time of 4.8, is very solid and just feels right on the lines. For the full OTS pattern at 4min: 41sec it pulls 1465 out of the 1800 pack, giving 18% head room. If you want a little more and can heat pitch props take the MAS 10x8 and re-pitch to match the pitch of the 10x7 at the 70% blade diameter point and it is really, really good. The MAS 10x8 is about 1/16" wider blade and bits and pulls up top. That extra blade width is like adding studs to snow tires. For the record I did try both the MAS electric prop and the APC E props and they matched the level flight speed but lost it up top.

Best,   DennisT