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Author Topic: Electrified Ringmaster S-1  (Read 11883 times)

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2020, 08:05:30 AM »
The ship is now complete but I am waiting on a new HobbyStar 2814 - 950kV motor. This will be about 2.5 ish oz. lighter then the HobbyStar 2820 -1000kV and similar to what others are using in Ringmasters. I received the TP 5S 1350mah battery packs and this should save another 2.5oz over the 4S  22000mah. All up I expect to be around the 31 oz. mark ready to fly. One thing I added was a strip of clear vinyl over the first open bay next to the battery area. This is to protect the silkspan from a battery lead smacking against it and popping through. Hope the motor gets here around Christmas week and I should be able to start test flights.

Best,   DennisT


Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2021, 12:44:09 PM »
Got the new Hyperion 4mm Xl adapter that Will DeMauro recommended, it fits perfect with the Great Planes 1 3/4" electric spinner and APC 9x6 prop. It gives enough space from the backplate and is all the way into the collet shaft. Also got the Thunder power 5S   1350mah pack. It is 1 1/4oz lighter than the 4S  2200 I was originally planning, it is a bit shorter than the 2200 pack and fits the battery pocket better than the 2200 (shear luck, but as they say better to be lucky than good any day). It gives an inch or so to move the battery fore or aft to trim the CG. Next need to smoke test the system on the 5S. Have already done a test run on 4S so got the motor rotation correct and all the wire joints worked fine.

Best,    DennisT
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 06:58:30 AM by Dennis Toth »

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2021, 11:20:54 AM »
The ship is complete and I thought ready to go but when I put the ship on the storage rake in the shop I got a look at the wing trailing edge and saw the outboard wing had a warp. I had just completed all the ground checks and the 5S  1350 mah TP pack worked great with the HoppyStar 2814   920 kV motor. I have the CC ESC set for fixed rpm of 11K (this is the minimum the ESC will go in governing mode) in control line mode with all the settings on medium. I found a RC Timer carbon fiber 10x5 prop that give a ground amp load of 16 which should be around 14 or less in the air. That was a gold to make the 5 minute flight time with the 1350 mah capacity.

So finding the warp I set up a jig and weights and set the ship in place, did the heat, soak, heat again and put it in place with the weights on the trailing edge. It has a little twist past the point of straight. I will be re-heating a few time over a couple days and hopefully this will get the wing straight, if not I will add a tab.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2021, 05:53:47 PM »
OK today was first flight day. The heat seemed to get the warp under control. I used the RC Timer CF 10x5 pusher set at 11K. This prop gives a ground load of 16 amps which should give something less the 14 in the air. Ok, the rain has gone and its in the 60's temperature wise.

Setup, switch on, spin-up and off we go. Smooth take-off but lap time was slow at 5.5 balance pretty closed. Controls seemed very good not touchy and very controllable.

Next will work on getting the lap time up by going to an APC 9x5 prop with a little more blade area and the 9" diameter to keep the load down.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2021, 06:20:43 PM »
Today I finally got the lap time to 4.9 sec, with a 9x6 APCE depitched to 5.5, with the 11K rpm. So far the use of the 5S  1350mah pack with the 2814  910kV HobbyStar motor has worked well now that I have the right prop. Next, will add flight time and sneak up on the full flight time of 4m 50sec for OTS and keep a check on motor and ESC temperature.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2021, 12:10:23 PM »
After a few short test flight with the lighter battery and motor the ship I feel the ship is a tad tail heavy. I hate to add weight so I started looking to see where I could remove weight from the tail and move the battery forward. I was able to reduce the tail horn weight a bit (it is a very large 1/4 scale RC horn that gave lots of height to slow the controls) next reduce the tail skid hardware a bit. This helped but I needed more. I thought about a different motor that would be low kV and weight about 1/4 oz more as one option. Then looked at the battery location. I had originally thought I was going to use a 4S  2200mah pack with a 5 1/2oz motor. This battery is about 3 1/4" long. The battery box was set up for this. When I switched to the lighter motor (3oz) and 5S  1350mah pack I saved a total of 3oz but this shifted that CG back a bit. It was close but still needs to move forward about 3/8 to 3/4". Looking at the available room I could see a chance to hang part of the battery over the leading edge and still secure it solidly it I added a plate to add a forward strap. Doing this now gives me enough movement to fine tune the CG.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2021, 07:15:32 PM »
Today I got in a few test flights with the forward battery and trim wedge. The forward battery got the CG moved to 1 3/4" back from the leading edge. The trim wedge worked well but it needs a little more thickness as once I flipped it over in a lazy eight it got a bit soft. The wedge is like a trim tab but is simply a section of trailing edge stock turned around and put on the bottom of the wing panel that needs lift. I first saw this used on gliders and it is very neat way of doing this.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2021, 07:04:57 PM »
Good news - Bad news. The good news - the new wedge flattened the wings so should be good to go. Bad news is the 5S  1350mah isn't big enough. I did a test flight for 2 and 1/2 min. figuring that this would give a current draw down for half a flight (OTS). Well it drew 725 mah which is about 150mah to much, but the motor and battery were only warm to the touch. So I'm going to have to go to the larger 4S   2200mah thunder power pack. I have looked at 1800mah packs but they are the same weight as the Thunder Power ProLite 2200mah packs that I already have.

Best,     DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2021, 06:18:56 PM »
Well my rescue Ringmaster has just become the "6 Million Dollar" Ringmaster. Was out doing a feel out flight and doing quit well. Finally got the pitch (10x6.7) right to get the lap time at 4.6. All felt good, wings were level, new BadAss 2320  820kV with a 5S  1350mah pack. Then it happened. While performing a vertical 8 the upper outside loop was a bit big and I felt there wasn't enough air to complete the inside, so I held the down climbed a bit then went to complete bottom loop and boom! I got a little up wind and a gust hit it in just as it got to the 5 o'clock point and lost tension and boom.

That was the bad news, fortunately the damage was mostly to the fuse. All the rest of parts were easy to fix, one little tear in one panel of the wing. So I can rebuilt it better!!! After looking at the fuse I decided I would need to build a new one. Turns out this part was really heavy at 5+ oz. So the goal is to drop at least 4 oz off the old 36oz flying weight. The new fuse is cut out and getting ready to do the motor mount which will be a lot lighter then the old IC conversion.

Also steamed out the twist in the outside wing. I had tried using a heat gun but that didn't work. Today I used a simple old tea kettle with steam out the spout. I did the steam thing and jigged it up. I had it weighted for 5 hrs and needed to move to a new location, DAM it worked!! I didn't think it would do anything that the heat gun didn't do but I was WRONG, steam works, don't really know why but it does.
 

Best,   DennisT
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 03:40:17 PM by Dennis Toth »

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2021, 06:35:08 AM »
The 6MM$ Ringmaster rebuild is moving along. One thing I found while going through the salvaged parts was that the elevator had a limited amount of what would have been down elevator caused by its leading edge shape against the stab trailing edge. The edges were both square in a few spots. This just stop the elevator from going to full down and could have contributed to the poor outside loop size that lead to the crash. This has been corrected.

Next step will be to finish the lighting holes in the core of the fuse. By removing the extra tail weight the balance should be better with the smaller BadAss 2320 motor and also allow the battery to be positioned a little further back in the battery box.

Best,    DennisT

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2021, 10:14:41 AM »
DAM it worked!! I didn't think it would do anything that the heat gun didn't do but I was WRONG, steam works, don't really know why but it does.
 Best,   DennisT
Relaxes the grain in the balsa.  When it dries it will stay where it was wet.  Just like molding stays molded.  We used to call that taking the "Girr Out".

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Online Dennis Toth

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Re: $6 Million Dollar Ringmaster (aka: Electrified Ringmaster S-1)
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2021, 02:17:57 PM »
The $6 million dollar Ringmaster is making some forward progress. I finished laminating the 1/16" cross grain balsa to the 3/8" fuse core (with holes) using the finishing resin. The first side I did the brush and scrap but really didn't get much off. On the second side I just brushed it on smooth but thin and add the cross grain wood. Both sides seemed to be on very solid but I had one piece on the first side that didn't adhere well so I needed to apply a bit of resin to get it down solid. Now that is has cured the fuse is 1.6 oz. It is very very stiff. Next will add the 1/32" birch plywood doubles and install the motor mount.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2021, 07:28:58 AM »
Have been able to get some work done on the rebuilt. New fuse is finished and ready for the On/Off switch mount hole to be cut, then will fit wing and be ready for paint and final assembly. New fuse is only 3oz compared to 7 for the original Sterling with the 1/8" plywood they used. This will help this ship a lot. Also this time I will tape the elevator hinge line before hand. Big prop is for motor thrust-line alignment.

Best,   DennisT
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 11:18:13 AM by Dennis Toth »

Offline Todd Stimpson

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2021, 11:39:30 AM »
This thread has been very helpful. Thanks for sharing.

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1 Rebuild
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2021, 08:58:50 AM »
Well after the "Bum" the old fuse was pretty much broke beyond worth repair so I decided to build a new fuse. Turns out the old fuse was Sterling bomber wood. By itself it weighted almost 9 oz (with old motor mounts and kit plywood). The new one is 4oz with the nose designed for electric, cross grain sides and 1/32" ply doubler and a single layer of 3/4oz fiberglass. Fuse is very stiff in bending and twist. This with the BadAss motor, 5 cell TP 1350 pack should get me close to 30oz, which should be fine.

I did a rough balance and it looks like I will move the battery to the side of the nose and put the electronic components in the wing compartment.

Next step is mounting the stab/elevator to the fuse, then paint fuse and install on wing, need to patch covering in a few spots also.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2021, 03:36:10 PM »
Making slow progress on the Rebuild S1 Electrified Ringmaster. All main parts in base paint. I used a product that is a water-based acrylic - Liquitex Professional Spray Paint. This is fairly light flat finish that is very much like auto basecoat with no strong odor or need for breathing pack, just a simple mask. It needs a clear top coat, for electric I have used Krylon UV Gloss Clear Coat used for protecting art work.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2021, 11:42:16 AM »
Finally, she flys!! I finally got all the electronics onboard for a test flight. All went well, didn't forget to secure any of the components or flight parts. The ship has the BadAss 2320 - 820Kv with the TP 5S 1350 pack. The motor is set for 9600 rpm with an 8 1/2"x 6 APCE-P. First flight was 10 sec just to check out if we had any weird stuff. That went very well, wings are level and glide is smooth with the CG at 1 3/4" back leading edge. Landing was great, very not Ringmaster. Next did a 30 sec. flight and checked the lap time, not where I like it, was 5.3 sec. on 60' C to C lines. I need to push the pitch to 6.5 - 6.75" ish to get to 4.9. That will be the next set of trim flights.

Best,   DennisT
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 05:45:35 PM by Dennis Toth »

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2021, 07:12:36 PM »
Finally, got out to do some additional test trim flights. Increased the prop pitch to 6.5" (APCE P easy to heat pitch) same 9600 rpm. Lap time improved to 4.97 sec. Got the pitch up to 6.75" and the lap time down to 4.84 sec. This felt pretty good on the lines (60' C to C). I will next extend the flight time to 2 1/2 minutes to start checking the rest of the trim and battery load. Did one climb it felt really good. Seems that with the sharp stab leading edge and tape hinge line it turned very crisp. I might need a bit more tip weight but will check this as I fly it more.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Mark wood

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2021, 08:41:02 AM »
More progress, front mount cut and fit to motor. Laying out the rest of the power components on fuse. I like to recess them into the fuse. Below photo shows expected location of ESC, Switch, timer.

I hate messy wires just laying about. I can cut to length the ESC power and motor wires but the timer has a flat connector, anyone know what this type of connector is call and can you remove the inner wire connectors and reposition?

Next step is to hog out the back of the motor area and sides of the old motor mounts to fit the motor in place, then on to the other component recessing.

Best,   DennisT

I have a good solution for this arm disarm function. I fly with a group of guys whom are steadfast IC junkies and I have managed to train them on the fine art of disarming the battery. My earlier planes I simply passed the battery connector to place where it can be disconnected which works but, they really don't like pulling that plug. It makes them nervous and for fairly good reason, there's lots of tension and they fear breaking something.  I have used a number of different arming devices and now my arming block is simply a bullet connector in the ground wire I pass through the side of the airplane. The socket side I lightly CA glue in to a close fit hole which has a block on the side. If I need to remove the ESC, I can easily loosen the CA with some nitro and pull the socket out. This method is easily adaptable for profile airplanes and I promise it will be more readily accepted by the slimer boys. Here's a photo with a wiring diagram.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2021, 01:01:58 PM »
I have used a number of different arming devices and now my arming block is simply a bullet connector in the ground wire I pass through the side of the airplane. The socket side I lightly CA glue in to a close fit hole which has a block on the side.
I really like that.  I make plugs from Deans which is a pain.  I drill holes in the ends of the connectors and solder a piece of 12g wire.   Looks real nice covered with heat shrink.  However, bullets are so easy to work with.  As to the slimers I just sit back and watch them mess with their engines.  Some will never change and that is fine.  Some I am convinced that the reason they fly *IS* to mess with the engine.  It's a hobby, let them do what they love.  Just wish they would mop up their pipe puddles. I really don't cry much when my competition has an overrun.

Ken 

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Offline Mark wood

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2021, 01:11:04 PM »
I really like that.  I make plugs from Deans which is a pain.  I drill holes in the ends of the connectors and solder a piece of 12g wire.   Looks real nice covered with heat shrink.  However, bullets are so easy to work with.  As to the slimers I just sit back and watch them mess with their engines.  Some will never change and that is fine.  Some I am convinced that the reason they fly *IS* to mess with the engine.  It's a hobby, let them do what they love.  Just wish they would mop up their pipe puddles. I really don't cry much when my competition has an overrun.

Ken

I've pretty much consoled myself to the same conclusion. They are reliving their younger years futzing with the engine. I too just watch or I pack my stuff over to the other circle and get three or four flights in to their one. We have some new blood coming in and they have watched me with easy to operate dead solid motor runs and they are coming over to "the way".

Next season is going to be interesting as I have a couple gallons of nitro and will make fuel for them. Think of the irony. The electric guy making slimer fuel.


 
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Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2021, 11:07:21 AM »
Success!! I got out to check the battery draw down on the E-Ringmaster, 2min 30sec flight about half and OTS flight time. It hit the 575 amps total draw down that gives 15% left that I need with the Thunder Power 5S - 1350 mah pack. The APCE-P 8 1/2" x 6.75"(resized 9x6) at 9600 rpm fixed rpm setting in Castle 35A ESC. This pulls the S1 at 4.75 sec lap time on 60" 0.012" lines, it fells really good on the lines. Next will go to full flights and start trimming for the OTS pattern.

Best,    DennisT

Online jerry v

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2021, 09:38:38 AM »
Dennis,
Nice work! Science continues?))
What is the flying weight of your electric Ringmaster?
My electric Ringmaster with 4 cell 2200 mAh lipo now is 31 oz flying weight. Last October at the Ringmaster event I flown my electric Ringmaster with Brodak Fm-9 timer and 9x 5 Graupner black electric prop. On 60 ft .015 lines center to center it flew 4.63 - 4.75 seconds per lap. 10860 rpm and 27 Amp draw.
I’m thinking to build one more Brodak Ringmaster S-1 with glow power. Engine-OS.25 FP or LA. It wil be interesting to compare the performance of the models. Glow power will be lighter , target weight is 23 oz.

Jerry
Variety is the spice of life.

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2021, 10:43:51 AM »
Jerry,
My current all up ready to fly weight is 34oz. This was a Sterling S1 Ringmaster kit, i had to replace the original fuse with a new one designed for electric and saved almost 3oz. The other thing that saves weight is the Thunder Power 5S - 1350mah battery, it is 5.54 oz. It also allowed me to move the pack from a wing pocket to the nose in the traditional tank location on the fuse. This helped get the CG to about 1/3/4" back from the leading edge.

Two other things I did on this rebuild are to shape the stab leading edge to a sharp 1/16" radius and second TAPE THE HINGE LINE. The most improvement comes from taping the hinge line on a Ringmaster.

Best,   DennisT


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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2021, 12:37:57 PM »
Jerry,
My current all up ready to fly weight is 34oz. This was a Sterling S1 Ringmaster kit, i had to replace the original fuse with a new one designed for electric and saved almost 3oz. The other thing that saves weight is the Thunder Power 5S - 1350mah battery, it is 5.54 oz. It also allowed me to move the pack from a wing pocket to the nose in the traditional tank location on the fuse. This helped get the CG to about 1/3/4" back from the leading edge.

Two other things I did on this rebuild are to shape the stab leading edge to a sharp 1/16" radius and second TAPE THE HINGE LINE. The most improvement comes from taping the hinge line on a Ringmaster.

Best,   DennisT

Dennis,
When I decided to make my Ringmaster electric, I made stab and elevator for tape hinge style, like in RC gliders. Stabilizer TE and elevator LE sanded 45 degrees from top to bottom like a wooden chisel point. After covering it with the Monocote I used scotch  3/4 wide clear tape on top of the seam and on the bottom trough the channel. It’s a good idea to do it before control horn being installed . Tape served well on all my installations in electric RC and CL hinges. It seals the hinges line, makes stronger tail by holding things together. Easy to repair, if needed. Only one disadvantage in tape / or Monocote hinges: under the heat of sun model changes the trim during the day's temperature change. It’s more noticeable in the fast RC models.
About CG of my Ringmaster - it’s a bit nose heavy, maybe I will put some lead in the tail. Lighter battery won’t survive the 5 min. flight duration , and wing slot is limited on the back))

Jerry

Variety is the spice of life.

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2021, 05:25:05 PM »
Jerry,
Very nice job, neat equipment installation. On mine I originally had the battery in a pocket under the outboard wing with a TP 4S - 2200 (6.9 oz.). The smaller TP 5S - 1350 mah pack (at 5.43 oz.) works because of the BadAss 2320 -820Kv motor and the cut down APCE P prop sized at 8 1/2" diameter and pitched up to 6 3/4", set at 9600 rpm, allows for a full 5 min flight with 15% left in the tank.

Prop diameter and rpm are the two biggest factors to amp draw. With the lighter battery it needed to be moved forward to keep the CG in range. Other big amp savings was switching to 0.012" lines from 0.015" that I had been using. Might try some Specta lines which could be 0,010" diameter. I need to get more information on how to make-up the terminations, could give a little extra margin or allow a full 9" diameter prop or more with the same pack.

Best,   DennisT

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #76 on: December 27, 2021, 03:58:01 PM »
Success!!! Did a full 5 min flight (good for OTS) today in my E Ringmaster with the BadAss 2320 - 820Kv at 9600 fixed rpm; Thunder Power 5S 1350 mah pack; 60' C to C, 0.012" stainless steel braided lines, lap time 4.7 sec; 8 1/2" diameter by 6.7" pitch APCE P prop (9 x 6 cut and re-pitched). This combination in a Ringmaster saves almost 4 oz over most of the E power packages currently used in Ringmaster size ships to my knowledge. 

Happy New Year,       DennisT

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #77 on: December 27, 2021, 06:10:45 PM »
Success!!! Did a full 5 min flight (good for OTS) today in my E Ringmaster with the BadAss 2320 - 820Kv at 9600 fixed rpm; Thunder Power 5S 1350 mah pack; 60' C to C, 0.012" stainless steel braided lines, lap time 4.7 sec; 8 1/2" diameter by 6.7" pitch APCE P prop (9 x 6 cut and re-pitched). This combination in a Ringmaster saves almost 4 oz over most of the E power packages currently used in Ringmaster size ships to my knowledge. 

Happy New Year,       DennisT

Good results! 

You can get pretty close to that power package weight with a 4s setup if you use a 1550mah battery and something like a Park 480 or Cobra 2808 or Arrowind 2810 (or a 3530 Motor by the can OD measurement method.)   Timer/Battery/ESC/Motor weight should come in around 10oz all together. 
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #78 on: December 27, 2021, 07:30:20 PM »
Brent,
The only 4S - 1550 mah pack I can see is a Glacier  75C. My flight drew 1120 mah out of the TP 5S - 1350 mah giving 17% left in the pack, a little close but close enough. Doing a simple 5 cell to 4 cell convert gives 1400 mah out of a 1550 pack leaves 9.6% left really close, could work. Could save a bit more amps if the prop is cut fo 8 1/4" diameter. Price for the Glacier is $18.50 the TP list is $41.99. Weight of the Glacier is 160 gm vs 157 gm for the TP. Looks like something worth looking into. Only issue is that the 4S is 90mm length and the 5S is only 68mm. With the 5S it fits on the nose were a tank would go, it just fits and gets the balance in the right place. You would need to maybe use a little shorter motor can and setup the motor position to clear the 4S pack length.

Not sure the other motors will hit the same amp draw as the BadAss, to get to the needed amp draw it needs to have a ground amps of less than 15 amp with the 4S, 12 amp with the 5S. Only $6 difference between the Cobra motor and the BadAss, so motor cost is a push. I think my current motor will work with the 4S so might give it a try.

Best,    DennisT
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 07:53:55 PM by Dennis Toth »

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2022, 05:54:22 PM »
Finally, we got some flyable weather. The ship is 33oz with a BadAss 2320  820kV motor on a Thunder Power 5S - 1350mah ProLite pack. ESC is a Castle Creation 35A Talon, timer ZTron. I run an APCE P - 8 1/2x6 3/4 prop (cut down and pitched up APCE P 9x6) at 9650 rpm, on 60' FINS 40G 45LB Test (C to C) Spectra lines, 4.75 sec lap time. This setup save about 1 3/4oz over the commonly use 1800 - 2200 packs.

The FINS 40G Spectra lines are very low drag and saved 4% battery capacity compared to 0.012" stainless steel cable that would be used with this size/wt shipI took the S1 Electric Ringmaster out and tested the FINS 40G, 45LB Test (0.009" diameter) Spectra lines. The objective was to see if using thinner, lighter Spectra lines would reduce drag and use less mah from the pack giving a little more head room in the TP 5S - 1350mah pack. Short answer is we have a winner!!

The I did a first test was the 0.012" stainless steel cable lines (my baseline) vs. PowerPro Maxcuatro 40 LB Test, 0.010" diameter lines. For the SS cable lap time was 4.7; PPMax lap time was 4.8 sec. On the PPMax the plane felt very solid and I didn't notice any real difference in the maneuver's, estimated pull was about 7 lbs. At the end of the test the battery voltage on SS Cable was 18.4V the PPMax was 17.6V, just above cutoff.

Yesterday, the test was with the FINS 40G lines, prepared like the PPMax, double surgeons knot (per the posted video Mike Stinson) using the Larks Head to secure the line clip. Pull tested the lines and all was good to go. Switch on - off we go. Ship felt really good and solid, speed felt right, control response was solid, no sponginess or delay, even when I purposely banged a hard corner just to see.  Lap time was 4.69 sec right on top of the lap time for the 0.012" stainless steel braided cable (4.7 sec).  After the flight comes the real data to see if there is any benefit. Pack is TP 5S - 1350mah, end voltage 18.5V, mah put back on recharge 1093. This left 257 mah in the pack 19%. That is ~4% more reserve that with the 0.012" SS cable so by my tests I have achieved my gold of reducing the amp draw and allows good battery life with this setup.

Best,    DennisT

« Last Edit: March 26, 2022, 05:43:29 PM by Dennis Toth »

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2022, 11:05:36 AM »
Update on electric S1 Ringmaster - the FINS G40 - 45LB lines have worked very well no stretch or change in control setting. Battery TP 1350mah 5S, usage has been consistent as well with a 15% reserve and lap time of 4.75 sec. One thing that has been a problem is this ship has not been happy doing vertical eights. It kinda does it but not smooth or really round. I have the hinge line sealed and balance is at 17%, it handles all other maneuvers just fine. I'm starting to think that it is losing speed in the top loop (too small a prop) an loosing tension to were it is opening up the loop (Netzband wall?).

Normally with IC one would just lean it out a bit and pickup the speed to see if that did it, but with the electric I am limited on available capacity. I want to add more prop so I did a lot of searches and found the a HobbyStar 5S 1600mah 120C pack (equivalent to about 1950mah 4S) that is 78 mm long and weights about 1oz heavier but fits in the same nose space as the 1350 pack but it should allow a full wide blade 9x6.5. One other thing I might try is opening up the line spacing a bit, maybe not getting as much down elevator as I think I'm putting in for this maneuver.

I think it the ship just needs more pulling power to get through the top outside loop smoothly. Battery should get here in a couple weeks. Till than may try the big prop for short flights.

Best,   DennisT
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 05:43:58 PM by Dennis Toth »

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #81 on: May 07, 2022, 11:15:50 AM »
This has been some week for the S1. After getting the new 5S  1600mah HobbyStar battery and finally getting the deans connector clean and reliably connecting it was time to see what props would work since I have more head room. The original set up with the TP 5S  1350mah 25C ProLite worked ok but seemed a little soft particularly in the vertical eight. I checked a few things and decided I might have the controls set up to slow. I compared it to my Stuka and El Diablo and it was considerably slower. I decided to increase the line spacing to the same as I use on the El D. This puts it at 4 1/2" up from 4". I find that particularly in outside maneuvers I go to a comfortable amount of down and that seems to be a little to open for this ship.

On to the prop tests. The motor rpm stays at 9650 to allow low amp draw and still allows the ESC to hold the fixed rpm. Props are all APCE -P. I did a ground test with three props: a cut/repitched 10x5.8 cut to 9 1/2" and pitched up to 7; an 11x5.5 cut to 9 1/8" and pitched up to 7.5 and a 10 x 5.8 pitch up to 7.  The 9 1/2 drew 18.5 amps; the 9 1/8" drew 20 and the 10 drew 17.5 amps. This is were the week got weird.

With the original 1350 pack setup I had an 8 1/2 x 7 prop at a lap time of 4.7. This was a little slow for me and felt soft. At the field the first test was set for a 30 sec flight to get a lap time and do a loop, climb/dive and feel the ship. First up I tried the 9 1/8 x 7.5. This gave a very solid feel and strong climb/dive and loop at 4.5 sec lap time. I then go to change props and put the 9 1/2 x 7 on an as I am tightening the prop nut, boom the shaft sheers. I do not gorilla tighten things so it was a surprise when it popped. Back to the shop to find another adapter. Luckly, I had several 4mm spares so I was back in business.

Next day out to the field again all set with the 9 1/2x7. Switch on and as I am on the take-off roll I get a little downward pitching but took of fine. Flew the test and felt very strong, as good as the 9 1/8" so it seemed like a very good prop. Lap time was 4.57 sec. Then as it timed out and the break hit there was an odd noise and it landed. Going over to the ship I see the motor mount broken and half off the fuse. Ok any landing you can walk away from is good, so back to the shop. This was my own fault for being lazy after the crash of the first ship. The motor mount was cracked and instead of making a new one I put in some glue and pushed it together. Lesson learned. New mount built and installed and out to the field for test of the 10x7. This was a very good strong prop but the loops seemed a little bigger than with the 9 1/2. Lap time was 4.5.

Once I built the new motor mount and got it installed I noticed that the mount bolts seemed like they were not getting tight, looking at the connection the fuse was being squeezed. In an effort to save weight on the new fuse I didn't put any hardwood mounts in the area were the mount bolts through the fuse, just the 1/32" plywood sides and fiberglass. This was not good and I had a bad feeling that it would not be long before the bolts ripped out, so I decide to cut into the fuse and add the hard maple hard points where the bolts hold the mount. This worked out well and in a few hours I was able to epoxy in the hard points and some filler blocks, reshape and seal and be ready for flying today. Did a second test with the 9 1/2" x7 and it felt very good, loop was tighter than the 10" so this looks like the base prop. Next will be a full pattern.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 11:56:51 AM by Dennis Toth »

Offline Alfred Spitzer

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Re: Electrified Ringmaster S-1
« Reply #82 on: July 04, 2022, 03:47:36 PM »
Great amount of information for a newbie. Thanks for sharing. Awaiting delivery of my Ringmaster S1.


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