stunthanger.com
Electric Stunt => Gettin all AMP'ed up! => Topic started by: Jeff Traxler on November 22, 2015, 02:30:06 PM
-
My electric Velvet.If the pics. post I'll do more typin'
-
More shots.The cooling inlet has a divider with one side going to cool the ESC and the other directly into the battery compartment.The motor gets air around the nosering.
-
She still needs a little detailing before the final leveling,panel lines and clear.
-
As she sits in the pictures the weight is 26.53 oz.Hoping to finish out at 57.
-
Man....that is a good looking ship for sure.
Yeah!
Shug
-
WOW that looks REALLY good, absolutely love the fuselage striping and the big graphics. The weight is unbelievable too. I think our mutual flying buddy is going to be a LOT proud and maybe a little jealous. WAY TO GO Trax! CLP**
-
Thanx Shug,This is my very first PAMPA ship.No more bARFs or hand me downs!Last summer I got tired of getting a goose egg in the appearance point box on the scorecard.
Dennis,Thanx,I'm working on no.2 now.I am getting an Igor system for that one and I think I can squeeze an oz.or two more out.The laminated molded fuse is what saved most of the weight.I sheeted the whole wing so I could'nt stick my fingers through the silkspan.With the laminations being biased the fuse behind the flapline is very resistant to twisting even a little bit when torqued.
-
Jeff, you have done a great job with the Velvet. If it flies as good as it looks you are going to make an impression. It looks like you will have the first velvet not built by the designer.
Thanks and keep up the great work.
Wes
-
Thanx Shug,This is my very first PAMPA ship.No more bARFs or hand me downs!Last summer I got tired of getting a goose egg in the appearance point box on the scorecard.
Dennis,Thanx,I'm working on no.2 now.I am getting an Igor system for that one and I think I can squeeze an oz.or two more out.The laminated molded fuse is what saved most of the weight.I sheeted the whole wing so I could'nt stick my fingers through the silkspan.With the laminations being biased the fuse behind the flapline is very resistant to twisting even a little bit when torqued.
Can you comment on the The laminated molded fuse a bit more. Not sure I know what that is exactly.
I look forward to building a proper stunt ship someday too.
Shug
-
Shug,I will try to get some more pics of the forms I used.Some make a single layer shell with the grain running in the direction of the thrustline.I wrap 1 layer like a candy cane from top to bottom(looking at the side of the fuse) and put the other layer on from bottom to the top.It all happens in one hectic glue-up.I have been using the ace bandage wrap to form the wood to the mold.further examples will be vacuum bagged as well. The result is a very light,rigid shell.No bulkheads,just a laminated 1/8" thick former in 4 locations is all it needs.I make a keel like a stick and tissue model and put the formers on and drop on the side.When the second side/formers are applied it ties it all together.With the sides being slightly round and the layers opposing each other it makes the rear of the fuse so stiff it is hard to twist even a little bit.I'd like to put a pipewrench on a conventionally built fuse and then on this type of construction and measure the stab deflection at failure.
-
Can't wait to see this one up close. So far looks like you got a nice thing going. I would keep the pipewrench away from the Velvet.Way to go Jeff!!
-
Shug,I will try to get some more pics of the forms I used.Some make a single layer shell with the grain running in the direction of the thrustline.I wrap 1 layer like a candy cane from top to bottom(looking at the side of the fuse) and put the other layer on from bottom to the top.It all happens in one hectic glue-up.I have been using the ace bandage wrap to form the wood to the mold.further examples will be vacuum bagged as well. The result is a very light,rigid shell.No bulkheads,just a laminated 1/8" thick former in 4 locations is all it needs.I make a keel like a stick and tissue model and put the formers on and drop on the side.When the second side/formers are applied it ties it all together.With the sides being slightly round and the layers opposing each other it makes the rear of the fuse so stiff it is hard to twist even a little bit.I'd like to put a pipewrench on a conventionally built fuse and then on this type of construction and measure the stab deflection at failure.
Thankee....I'll have to study up on this technique some more for the future.
Shug
-
Can't wait to see this one up close. So far looks like you got a nice thing going. I would keep the pipewrench away from the Velvet.Way to go Jeff!!
Hey Bob,This is what I done with the shell I brought out to your place.Can' wait to fly it!!
-
Jeff,
Looking good. Will miss der Nobler though.
John
-
Cool, Jeff. Looks like you'll have the fancy flaps, too.
-
Jeff, Great looking airplane, awesome job. Bring it to Dayton this summer I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.
-
The first picture shows the forms I molded the shells around.The former locations are the slots in the forms.I slip the laminated 1/8" balsa in the slots and trim leaving a perfect fit to the shells.The other two shots show the cavernous battery compartment.The ESC will fit nicely under the battery shelf and I installed a place to mount the safety and the start button accessable thru the cooling outlets under the fuse.It kills me to see a big red button on the side of a beautiful ship so I placed it out of sight but not out of reach.
Hey John,Der Nobler will live on in Der Shark.............Achtung Baby!
-
Spent some time in Jeff's shop a couple of days ago and he is going to end up being one who develops an extension of newer building techniques for those light and straight fuses we all want.
He's spending a lot of time with the experemints and with building mold bucks that look like museum pieces. My buddy is a master craftsman when he wants to be, and that isn't always directed at great guitars!
-
Mr. weatherman finally cooperated and I got the clear on and decided to put her together.Nice shiny airplane and used landing gear....... HB~> HB~>I fixed that.Made a mold from a glued up block of Corian.This is the first set.I'll post a few pics of the finished plane as soon as I finish bolting everything on.
-
2 more shots of the gear/mold
-
Quality looking gear. Look like Sukhoi style. Mr. Weather is gonna let Velvet fly mid March if you can have her ready by then.. Time to burn some midnite oil!
Bob
-
Quality looking gear. Look like Sukhoi style. Mr. Weather is gonna let Velvet fly mid March if you can have her ready by then.. Time to burn some midnite oil!
Bob
Sunday.Couple hrs work tomorrow,test run,and I'll be ready
-
Great job on the new LG. That is a nice finishing touch on a otherwise great project. Somehow I do not thin you are going to miss the old Nobler at all...
-
Jeff;
All I can say is WOW!!!!
A biased laminated fuselage should stop any unwanted twisting of the fuselage rear (if I can assume that I understand exactly what you are doing). I know that I speak for many others when I say that I would love to see a more detailed explanation for the technique you use. I know that when I experimented with simple laminated turtle decks everything stiffened up. Never thought to extend the idea to the fuselage itself.
This type of new way of thinking about construction is what keeps this hobby of ours so darned interesting. I applaud your inventiveness and thank you for sharing it with us. Keep the new ideas coming!!!
Eric Rule
-
Hi Eric,Thanx for the kind words!!I am looking forward to sharing this process and I have recently spent a week at Bob Hunt's house.We took gobs of pictures detailing every step of the process for an upcoming article in Stunt News.We built an entire fuse in 4 days and the weight with motor mount was 4.4 oz.Figure a couple more oz. after adding the battery hold down/hatch hardware and mounts for the fuse mount gear.I have been experimenting for a couple years and the successes have come together for a system that makes a straight,light,very strong fuselage.With the bias lamination of the shells it simply will not twist when assembled.Kinda makes you do this ;D #^ <= ;D when the innovator himself,Bob Hunt says "I'm impressed,Jeff ya done real good!".My Velvet will weight at least 10 oz. less than Wesley's prototype with the battery installed ready to fly.
-
Starting to look like a flying machine!Taking my time on the final assembly,my arthritis is letting me know I still have it ~^.The wind is a bit more than forecast anyway,It'll warm up soon enough.
-
Jeff and Bill Werwage spent a week at the Hunt household a few weeks back and we built models and played guitar until the wee hours each day. As Jeff indicated, he built one of his amazing fuselages here while I took sequential photos for a future Stunt News how-to on Jeff's techniques. It will be a hit I predict!
Attached is a photo of Jeff with the finished fuselage that he built here. It is very light and very stiff!
Later - Bob Hunt
-
What type of glue is used in the laminations of wood on the fuse?
-
I applaud your venturing out with your construction on the fuse, its awesome!
I cant wait to hear how she flies for you
-
What type of glue is used in the laminations of wood on the fuse?
Hi Chris,I have experimented with Titebond,epoxy,and Gorilla glue.The titebond is water based and made the wood move waaaay too much.Great adhesive but not for this.The epoxy works OK but you have to be very sparing to keep the weight down.Gorilla glue was the last choice but it worked out better than anything I had tried previously.It was lighter,filled any gaps/cracks in the laminations and sands like balsa.I learned of G-glue in modelling at a how-to demo by R/C Scale guru Mike Barbee at the Nats a couple years ago and that was the final piece of the glue puzzle.When we built the demo fuse at Bob's we did one half with G-glue and one with epoxy for weight comparison.The epoxied shell came out about 5 gr. heavier.
-
I applaud your venturing out with your construction on the fuse, its awesome!
I cant wait to hear how she flies for you
Thanx Mark,I try to think outside of the box.........really crowded in there!I wanted a way to make the fuse so it didn't look like a box with rounded blocks on the top and bottom.Without alot of weight as well,especially for electric ships.Wes's flaps cought my eye the first time a saw his Velvet and the fuse lines were perfect for my technique so here it is.The bonus is with the sides being a compound curve and the bias laminations is that this does not twist....at alll.Sure you can add weight and make a conventionally built fuse stiffer but in the end they will still twist if only a little bit.If I havn't learned anything climbing the stunt ladder,rigidity and light weight are our friends.She's ready to test fly if the weatherman get's their act together......I'll keep ya posted.
-
Thanks for the detailed answer Jeff.
Yes, the PU glues certainly have their applications.
And I assume the wood has to be wet for molding, so that's a natural for the PU....
Thanks again.
R,
Chris
-
As Jeff indicated, he built one of his amazing fuselages here while I took sequential photos for a future Stunt News how-to on Jeff's techniques. It will be a hit I predict!
Later - Bob Hunt
So make up 2 large sheets of (1/32?) balsa, cut out blanks so the grain is skewed (30 degrees?) and forms a kind of plywood, wet it down, gorilla glue them and wrap them around the foam mold with an ace bandage then repeat for the other half. Then glue the two halfs to a (3/16?) board which is hollowed out where needed. Is that about right?
But why do you have that board going down the middle, why not just glue the two shells together without it?
MM
-
I'm wondering about a full composite fuselage, made from fabric and epoxy....
Should be much easier to produce than a sailplane fuselage with their uber skinny and long shapes.
But I guess if the wood works, why mess with success??
I'd think though that someone with some nuts must have already, or would be willing to take their finished creation and splash a mold off of it.
I can't wait to see more of this method though.
Vr,
Chris
-
I'm thinking top and bottom halves. The center board would form a natural crutch and you wouldn't have to cut the fuselage up to mount the wing & tail.
MM
-
MM,I used the keel method w/left/right halves instead of top/bottom for 2 reasons.With the keel verticle it has reference like a profile.Alignment is easier for me that way.It is also easier to hide a seam on the top/bottom instead of having it run down the side in plain sight.
Chris,I have plugs and am in the process of making female molds for the composite version of the Werwage/Rud Junar XL.2 piece take apart fuse/wings/empanage.When that project is a bit further along I will share more.It will feature the bias lam shells as well as glass/CF/Epoxy.I have severe arthritis and vacuum bagged composite is the way to go for me.I have a habit of crushing balsa when I work with it.
-
I look forward to seeing what you bring forward, Jeff!
I myself have thoughts of V-bagged wings and tails, I just have to decide what I want to do about hinges.
Vr,
Chris
-
She's been sitting for a couple weeks bench trimmed and ready to test fly........The NW Ohio wind machine is in fine working order and continues to blow.The good news is with the tip weight,arming device,battery,and all the extras it finished out at 58 oz. RTF.A couple more oz. than I hoped but still 8 oz. less than the PA65 powered prototype.This may take a bit of getting used to,the hand me down Impact was 72oz.,the ARF Strega was 79oz. LL~ LL~ LL~
-
Best of luck for boring maiden Jeff!
Please don't risk the maiden in gusty conditions, wait it out!!!
VR,
Chris
-
My patience has finally paid off!!The conditions were perfect this afternoon and I got to fly my new ship.Since this is my first BOM full tilt stunter great care was taken during the building,finishing and bench trimming process to keep it strait and light.It had no issues and flew great right from the first take off.I flew a 1:30 flight and could tell right away I had a winner.I adjusted the run time and flew 4 patterns.The only trim so far was to move the leadouts forward an 1/8"and that helped upstairs.The best thing was my landing gear design did exactly what I hoped it would and really cut down the bounce on take off and landing.A fuse mount LG that lands like wing mounted gear.So far,so good!
-
Now THAT is a terrific flight test report. Way to go Trax.
-
Congrats Jeff!
Can I ask what your landing gear layup is? I'm interested in making my own cf gear to replace my aluminum gear on my oriental.
R,
Chris
-
Chris,I put a layer of 6 oz. cloth in the mold,then a bunch of 12K tow,cloth,tow,and a last layer of cloth on the outside.It's mostly tow.I like the look of the weave and the stability of the perpendicular fibers in the cloth.I'll be making another mold for a set for 40 size ships this week with the same shape as these.They have a certain shock absorbing quality,can't wait to get them on a paved circle
-
Thanks Jeff.
I have a spool of tow, a bunch of 3k plain weave cf, and a bunch of 80/20 "uni-carbon"
I'll have to play around a bit.
I wonder how much lighter I can make a cf gear than aluminum?
I'm thinking maybe slightly over half the weight would be safe.
I'm really glad your maiden went smoothly.
R,
Chris
-
Nice report, Trax.
-
Hey Christ,The arming plug you gave me in Cleveland last fall has been put to very good use!Thanx again H^^ H^^ H^^ If I could get the rain to stop I'll use it some more!
-
Thanks Jeff.
I have a spool of tow, a bunch of 3k plain weave cf, and a bunch of 80/20 "uni-carbon"
I'll have to play around a bit.
I wonder how much lighter I can make a cf gear than aluminum?
I'm thinking maybe slightly over half the weight would be safe.
I'm really glad your maiden went smoothly.
R,
Chris
This mold is about .100" deep for these and seams just about right.With the first mold I made I ended making a few non-airworthy sets of gear before I got it.Experimenting is fun and I learned a ton.You will be happy with the weight savings over aluminum.A few grams here and there adds up quick.I have been drubbing lighter,lighter,lighter into my head and it really paid off on this project.The bias laminated fuse shells contributed greatly in the weight savings.
-
I'm thinking of splashing a fiberglass mold off of my aluminum gear.
The .100" thickness is great info, thank you.
R
Chris
-
I have 65 flights on it now and it seams to keep getting better.The landing gear works FAR BETTER than I had ever hoped.It really absorbs the landing loads and cuts way down on the bounce associated with fuse mount gear.The FREE points from not bouncing on landing I will gladly accept!!I will have these available for sale SOON as well as my CF bellcranks and CF props.I am using about 2080 mah from a 5s 2700 pack,KR-2 timer,3548-800kv motor w/11x5 3 blade CF prop.Now I can practice hard for the Nats and work on my E Junar XL.
-
Looks like it is all working out for you. I'm glad for you.