Over on RC Groups, there are some stickies for "newbies".

That being said, I would check our link up above in this forum called "List your setup".

If you have some idea about what type of airframe you are thinking about, mention it and I bet you will get more suggestions (and all are good too!) than you will know what to do with.

Once you see what works, then ask us why we chose specific items. I think it is easy to give narrow answers than big sweeping "global" truths!

Hi Douglas,

Your question is a very good one, and I'm sure there will be many more CLPA pilots asking it in the future.

In addition to Alan's good recommendations, here are a few more:

1. There is not, and probably never will be, a "book" on Electric power for CLPA. The reason is that by the time it is researched, written, published, and sold, (about 1+ year, at best) the information will be out of date. And the market is so small it would not be cost effective for the writer and or the publisher.

2. Given the above, there is still a lot of material available. It does require some time and effort on your part to do the reseach. Robert's excellent forum is a great place to start. Use his "Search" function on the top of every page, this will help. In this section read as many posts as you can. It will be worth your time and allow you to get a good start in ECL and avoid costly mistakes.

3. Get out your PAMPA Stunt News issues and read the "Electric" columns by one of the compition E powered CLPA pioneers, Will Moore. A few of the columns by the new guy may be helpful, I'm not sure, but at least the new ECL photo's are nice thanks to Bob Hunt.

4. Look at your copies of Brodak's CLW (Control Line World) and read everything written by one of the pioneers of ECL, Mike Palko. Mike knows his stuff and has a pleasent, clear, writting style.

5. If you want a GAUARNTEED "Turn Key" ECL start, then contact Eric at RSM. He has a RTF system that is perfect for most CLPA planes. Get one of Eric's excellent kits, or a Brodak ARF P-40 or ARC Cardinal with Eric's turn Key E power system and you won't have to read anything to get a quiet, reliable, powerful, ECL flight.

6. All the info you need is out there. We are trying to pull it together and make it more easily digestable for the newcomer, but we are not there yet. In the ERC world ALL the plane mfg. give clear info. as to what is needed to E power their planes. Some of the E mfg. have done an outstanding job of making it easier for a "wet" pilot to convert to reliable E power. One is HORIZON. They are one of the model worlds largest distributers. Their Eflite line labels their E motors with the familiar numbers used in the "wet" engine world. For example their Eflite .46 makes it very clear what power it replaces. Their sizes are equivalent to a high quality wet engines (OS FX etc.).

Welcome to the E power CLPA world. There is a lot of help on this forum, and doing some reseach will get you to your goal quickly.   

Man Howard, you make it look so easy.
the shot was there and you had to take it,  i Know

Dave jr.

Yikes Howard,

Now I remember why I stopped posting to this forum for a long time. Looks like I should have just stayed away. Sorry if I was so offensive, it was not my intent.   

Actually we are one of the more genteel  forums here. Almost never a discouraging word.

Everyone is above average .

Rudy
I'm pretty sure Howard was only making lite of dennis's obvious misspelling of Doug's name as "Dog"
I'm sure it wasn't your post he was poking fun at.
and i was just noting Howards unique ability to make lite of just about anything.
hopefully All is Ok in stunt land
Dave jr.

Rudy
I'm pretty sure Howard was only making lite of dennis's obvious misspelling of Doug's name as "Dog"
I'm sure it wasn't your post he was poking fun at.
and i was just noting Howards unique ability to make lite of just about anything.
hopefully All is Ok in stunt land
Dave jr.

No offense taken...I've been called worse.

Well thanks for the encouraging words. I'm an AMT for a major Airline, have worked Overhaul Maintenance for the last 30 yrs., so I DO understand basic electronics, but when you start getting into matching components and electrical loads...ugh! Brain-freeze.

I have one of Walt Umland's Ringmaster Imperial kits which I think is a sleek aircraft with good lines. It would look beautiful without the ugly-wart engine sticking out the top cowl. I'm very much intrigued by the "no oil - no mess" of ECL.

With that said, the Ring imp has a wing area of 613 sq.", and a span of 52.5". I'd like to spec. it out before I start building even though I'm unsure of the final weight.

Considering the motor will never run at 100% and the battery pack will have a reserve capacity, there will be a "range" of motors and battery ratings I can select from, right?

Just like cell phones, this tech. is changing daily. Time to jump on the bandwagon!

p.s.- Have you seen the Contra-Rotating Motors from Maxx Prod.? (HIMAX)  Impressive!!

http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-266.html

Yes, but remember it needs 2 ESC's to run the two motors. Cool, but costly. Nevertheless, it would be a good pysch-out setup.

Anyhow, back to the thread, do you have a particular project in mind? 


Yes, a Ringmaster Imperial (W. Umland kit) about 613 sq." and 52.5" span.

I've seen beam mounts for motors, sort of a clamshell affair with cooling fins. The top cowl area from the spinner ring to the front canopy area could be made into a hatch for motor/ battery/ ESC access.

If I understand your description of the motor mount, it is either one for a brushed motor, or a brushless in-runner. Either one of these has the outer case fixed, with the inner armature turning. I am assuming you are talking about the brushless option. I am not sure how many people are running an in runner, which typically has a higher kV than the out-runner motor most of us are using. You will be turning a prop at an rpm in the 8-12000 rpm range. With a kV in the 1000 rpm/V or less, we are talking about a 3s -5s Lipo battery pack. 3s means 3 cells hooked up in series, to give 3 times the volts of a single cell.

Depending on the in-runner you might choose, you may need a gear box if it has a kV much over 1500 rpm/Volt. I am not familiar with gearbox setups for in-runners, so I will defer to the advice of others.

Like I said, most of us are using outrunners, which may require some cutting of the normal hardwood motor mounts for clearance. In an Outrunner, the outer can itself is rotating around a fixed stator. At first sight this looks a little odd, but is working quite well.

I am trying to think where there may be some photos of outrunner mounts.

Rudy
I'm pretty sure Howard was only making lite of dennis's obvious misspelling of Doug's name as "Dog"
I'm sure it wasn't your post he was poking fun at.
and i was just noting Howards unique ability to make lite of just about anything.
hopefully All is Ok in stunt land
Dave jr.

Thanks Dave,

I'm sure your right. I have met Howard and he is a very nice guy with a wonderful wry sense of humor. 

I guess I am just a little over sensitive when it comes to dealing with some CL people. I know Howard is from the much more civilized north country, but here in the SW most CL guys wake up every day and their 1st wish is "...... I hope when I open today's paper it's date is 1958..." They refuse to accept the fact that it is really 2009!

  Down here, if you don't fly an old profile Ringmaster, covered in tissue, painted with toxic dope and powered by a felon Fox motor, then you are branded a heretic that should be banashed from the world of modeling. ...... And, god forbid, you show up with an ARF, covered with the devils own sinful plastic covering and then power it with the SIN of all SINS the hated ELECTRIC POWER then you are truly cast from the circle run by the old guard and banished to an outcast status, called a cheater, banned from some contests and generally accused of bringing Civilization (as they see it) to an end!   

Yikes! That sounded awful. ..... I guess I should just continue flying ERC where new ideas are always welcome and appreciated. ;-)

Thanks again for your insightful post. :-)

Regards, 

Hi Doug,

The Imperial should make quite a nice ECL model.  I have one also but mine is the old Sterling kit bought off ebay, its all punched out of th ediecut sheets so its not a collectable, and it is waiting its turn in the build que.  Lake you said, the long slim nose would look even better without a cylinder sticking out of it!  It has a large wing and also has a fairly thin airfoil, so it will be right at home with a goverened electric system  Good news also that the power system you will need is right in line with what a LOT of use have been using.

Rudy mentioned the RSM system.  Looks pretty good but I think it actually may be too large ( more accurately, too heavy) for the R.I.  As a forinstance, the RSM system uses a 4 cell 3850 mah lipo pack that weighs 13.5 oz.  I am using a 4 cell 2500 mah pack that weighs 8.5 oz.  That is a LOT of weight savings!

Look at it this way (or weigh if your prefer)  The R.I was originally designed to fly with a IC 35 size engine, most likely turning a 10x6 prop.  If you electtrify it and use say a APC 11x5.5 it will be far more powerful than the orignal.  Of course you could also use a 12" or 13" (or more) prop with additional larger motor and battery capacity, not to mention exceeding tall landing gear, but somewhere enough is enough!



Now the shameless PLUG - (advertising alert!) I am working with Brodak to introduce a series of "Turn Key" power systems.  The "40" sized system is designed to use a 11x5.5 APC-E prop, Arrowind 2820 motor, Castle ICE-50 controller, Arrowind 4Sx2800 battery, and WIll Hubin timer.  The system should be on the market by the end of November, I do not know the price yet. 

Hi Mike
Thats Bob Duncan that beat me not bob baron. and frankly i dont care what the power plant is as long as we are all having fun,
and its within the rules for the event.I might try an electric but I'm afraid I might upset my Pit man and I've had him for quite a while and hate to lose him.I'm still waiting to see what comes out of the oakland hills before i make my move.
heck it took me three attempts just to get one official score. after round one I was 0 for 2 and even Dad was giving me a bad time.
I wasn't sure why everyone was waving to me while i was flying, I yelled Hi back but they just kept waving at me . Frankly i thought they were trying to bother me so I ignored them.How rude of them.
I hadn't even realized that the top three were all jamisons untill you pointed it out.(now that might be grounds for us all to be run out of town).
At least we all beat that Paul Pomposa guy with his tissue covered ringmaster.
I'm pretty sure Dave Fitzgerald could beat us with just about anything that hooks up to lines, but it was nice to see his Dad's old airplane flying.
see you at the next one Mike.
Dave jr.

Note to self: add hand signal to cheat sheet for old time.

<snip>

Now the shameless PLUG - (advertising alert!) I am working with Brodak to introduce a series of "Turn Key" power systems.  The "40" sized system is designed to use a 11x5.5 APC-E prop, Arrowind 2820 motor, Castle ICE-50 controller, Arrowind 4Sx2800 battery, and WIll Hubin timer.  The system should be on the market by the end of November, I do not know the price yet. 

Cool, this will really make it easy for thoes sitting on the fence..

1958.  Wow.  I have a Greatest Hits of 1958 CD I play to get me enthusiastic about building stunt planes.  I can see it being 1958 again.  I wonder if my folks will let me go to the 1959 Nats.  I gotta warn Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper.  And now that I know what that girl in my homeroom was suggesting, I know what action to take. 

Hi Rudy:

Then you would be pleased to know that Jim Goss took third today at Napa Vintage  Stunt (kind of a NorCal VSC) with an E-powered Jamison, and he was neither tarred nor feathered nor run out of town. We are very civilized in the Bay Area. I think Dave Shirley took second and Bob Baron first, all flying Jamisons. One notable event was David Fitzgerald flying his Dad's Gieske (sp?) Nobler, a real oldie, and winning Classic with it.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the electrifying good news. Yes, it seems that ECL has been doing well in many parts of the nation and in some places it is being accepted. But here in the extreme SW (SoCal, AZ) it is still receiving a less than warm welcome. And yes, you are very civilized in the North country (NorCal to WA), I lived there for 15 years and enjoyed it. :-) ............... Bob Hunt once told me about the very slooooow acceptance of his and Dean's Pipe idea by the CL community. He said they got more than a "little" push-back about the idea.  ..... So I am not surprised by the push back against ECL, disappointed, but not surprised. 

I'm also not surprised at Dave's victory with his dad's old Nobler, as others have said, Dave could beat us with a brick on a string!    I think if Dave ever has to land his jet on the Hudson he would set up the landing to stop at Pier 27, allowing the passengers to step off the wing right onto the Pier! 

I look forward to seeing you at GS this Sunday. My new scale ECL is almost finished but will not be ready for this weekend. (I'm building two at the same time in the hope that one of them flys OK ;-) I will bring one up to the next NorCal contest you guys have. Please keep me posted with your NorCal contest schedule.  Maybe I will even see HR there and get a chance to apologize for my poorly worded rant. 

Sorry for the detour Doug ..... back to your thread 

Regards, 

Once you have gathered a good enough general picture of the E-Stunt technology state of the art, start asking specific questions. I need to write a tutorial ...
Welcome to Stunthangar,
    Dean P.

Ok, Thanx.
How do I compare Motor ratings? Some use Watts, others Kva and lastly RPM/v. I know they are all inter-related.
I've got my eye on a Maxx prod. HC3528 HIMAX series motor.
Sounds like "Marketing Deception", like Chevy touting their Torque ratings and Ford their HP. Each trying to claim their Truck is more powerful.

Yes weight ... but also KV (rpm/V) - it gives first info

then max current will tell little more than weight

for better comparing of efficiency, no load current plus internal resistance - they both determine efficiency, but no load current is little more meanfull for us (running in PWM) while resistance says more what motor does loaded (uphill)

The danger with Io and resistance is than some manufacturer's are pretty "creative" with these specs!

Yes :-) ... but fortunately it is better and better, but sometimes I see Ri of only one winding ... and then, when you buy it, yo see yes, but it is connected to star 

but also just opposite - for exmaple AXI has also stated only one winding and it is delta