Author Topic: Electric remote shut down? (Read 1371 times)

Dennis Toth · « **on:** July 12, 2020, 07:34:32 PM »

Is there a simple DIY remote shut off (and only for shut off) for ECL? I'm thinking this could be useful if something start going wrong, bad air not worth flying in, finish the pattern and just want to get down without a lot of extra laps. Also good for us senior if we are having a bad day and just need to stop before getting dizzy. So is there a simple circuit we could build and use a simple push button shut off with a 2.4hz radio with something like a garage opener clicker? I'm thinking with ELC it should be easier then with IC.

Best, DennisT

CircuitFlyer · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2020, 07:56:45 AM »

Something like this might work - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Control-Latching-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B082WXR37T/ref=pb_allspark_session_sims_desktop_60_6/189-4058637-5824117?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B082WXR37T&pd_rd_r=77458ad2-9f24-4f4d-a598-3eb2e4316775&pd_rd_w=pUqfR&pd_rd_wg=hezKe&pf_rd_p=6dab4af8-14d2-4d59-b0a2-dd973ff1f166&pf_rd_r=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5&psc=1&refRID=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5.

If you wire it to interrupt the signal to the ESC it should shut things down. The ESC will likely complain about the complete loss of signal, but it gets the job done. You would have to test it to see if it can transmit reliably over the distance you require.

Paul

John Rist · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2020, 08:59:48 AM »

Quote from: CircuitFlyer on July 13, 2020, 07:56:45 AM

Something like this might work - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Control-Latching-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B082WXR37T/ref=pb_allspark_session_sims_desktop_60_6/189-4058637-5824117?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B082WXR37T&pd_rd_r=77458ad2-9f24-4f4d-a598-3eb2e4316775&pd_rd_w=pUqfR&pd_rd_wg=hezKe&pf_rd_p=6dab4af8-14d2-4d59-b0a2-dd973ff1f166&pf_rd_r=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5&psc=1&refRID=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5.

If you wire it to interrupt the signal to the ESC it should shut things down. The ESC will likely complain about the complete loss of signal, but it gets the job done. You would have to test it to see if it can transmit reliably over the distance you require.

Paul

If the relay on the product above is a mechanical relay this unit could be used to replace the start button or start switch on the timer. If it is a solid state relay not sure if it would work. For the timers that have a slide switch like the KR timer you would run it in the latched mode. For timers that have a push button you would set it up in the momentary mode. They are cheep so I may buy one and see if it works on a KR timer. KR is the only type of timer I have so that is the only one I can test. Type at you later when I get results.

PS I have one on order --- full report will follow.

Fred Constantine · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2020, 10:33:55 AM »

If you are using an ESC in the governor mode as you would with an FM-9 timer, you can substitute an R/C receiver for the FM-9. Hang the transmitter on your belt and move the throttle control to a preset position to give the correct RPM when your ready to fly. Move the throttle lever to very low idle to cutoff. I've done it, and it works fine. It was not worth the bother, and I've gone back to a conventional timer setup.

Repackaging the transmitter to a small box with a simple toggle switch for control would make the idea more useful. Just don't change the RF section (including the antenna) to prevent problems. Using the throttle during maneuvers is pointless, because the pilot cannot respond fast enough to be effective. I think the idea has merit as a on demand cutoff for safety.

Fred

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2020, 01:41:09 PM »

MM,
This would have been very useful a couple years ago when Tom Morris had a spell while flying his electric Carvel at the Palmetto Contest. Luckily, he was able to get someone into the circle to take the ship while he got down. Having the ability to shut it off wound have allowed cleaner access to the circle to attend to Tom. Fortunately, the ship was able to stay out of the way of the paramedics and didn't have to be crashed.

I know we have to use the 2.4hz radio per the general rules section but it seems that for a simple OFF only, if there were a better way we could get something done. Tim, Ken?

Best, DennisT

Rick_Huff · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2020, 02:13:16 PM »

Will Hubin makes an FM9 with remote shutoff capability. Check with him.

Rick

John Rist · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2020, 07:43:35 PM »

Quote from: Fred Constantine on July 13, 2020, 10:33:55 AM

Repackaging the transmitter to a small box with a simple toggle switch for control would make the idea more useful. Just don't change the RF section (including the antenna) to prevent problems. Using the throttle during maneuvers is pointless, because the pilot cannot respond fast enough to be effective. I think the idea has merit as a on demand cutoff for safety.

Fred

I did repackage a car Tx so I could mount it on the handle. Originally done for scale but would work for stunt. The down side is that the handle is now heavy. Tx hung on belt is much better.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2020, 07:48:32 PM »

Rick,
From what I could see the Hubin timer has a remote start button for starting and shut off. What I'm looking for is to be able to shut the motor off while flying from the inside of the circle via some type of clicker like a garage opener, just to shut it off.

John,
Your unit looks very cool but for stunt the handle would be pretty heavy and would take a pretty strong hand to get through the pattern. Also some people will think you are trying to have electronics do the flying for you. But still a start.

Best, DennisT

Howard Rush · « **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2020, 01:05:36 PM »

Quote from: CircuitFlyer on July 13, 2020, 07:56:45 AM

Something like this might work - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Control-Latching-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B082WXR37T/ref=pb_allspark_session_sims_desktop_60_6/189-4058637-5824117?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B082WXR37T&pd_rd_r=77458ad2-9f24-4f4d-a598-3eb2e4316775&pd_rd_w=pUqfR&pd_rd_wg=hezKe&pf_rd_p=6dab4af8-14d2-4d59-b0a2-dd973ff1f166&pf_rd_r=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5&psc=1&refRID=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5.

If you wire it to interrupt the signal to the ESC it should shut things down. The ESC will likely complain about the complete loss of signal, but it gets the job done. You would have to test it to see if it can transmit reliably over the distance you require.

Here's the relay: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kemet/UD2-4.5NU-L/UD2-4.5NU-L-ND/5502153?utm_adgroup=Relays&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic%20Search_RLSA_Cart&utm_term=&utm_content=Relays&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2-Tnm7XN6gIVdh-tBh3pXg7OEAAYAiAAEgKoo_D_BwE

It looks like an actual mechanical DPDT relay good for 1 amp. One could use it to interrupt the signal from the timer to the ESC, but even better might be to initialize the timer. One could also do something interesting like toggling between the Igor timer and the raw TUT. I'm getting me one.

Rick_Huff · « **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2020, 02:03:06 PM »

Dennis,
Search for Will Hubin's FM-9 R/C timer. It has a cable that plugs into the throttle channel of a 2.4Ghz receiver. The motor shuts down whenever the throttle (of the transmitter) is advanced beyond 55% of full throttle. I used a simple 2 channel R/C car transmitter, and it works perfectly.

Rick

Howard Rush · « **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2020, 02:44:44 PM »

That looks like the best solution for a constant-speed timer.

John Rist · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2020, 06:37:34 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on July 14, 2020, 01:05:36 PM

Here's the relay: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kemet/UD2-4.5NU-L/UD2-4.5NU-L-ND/5502153?utm_adgroup=Relays&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic%20Search_RLSA_Cart&utm_term=&utm_content=Relays&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2-Tnm7XN6gIVdh-tBh3pXg7OEAAYAiAAEgKoo_D_BwE

It looks like an actual mechanical DPDT relay good for 1 amp. One could use it to interrupt the signal from the timer to the ESC, but even better might be to initialize the timer. One could also do something interesting like toggling between the Igor timer and the raw TUT. I'm getting me one.

As I said in my earlier post I have one on the way and will set it up to act as the start switch on a KR timer. As you know, on a KR timer you slide the switch to the ON position to start the count down for motor start. Once the motor starts. sliding the switch to off instantly stops the motor. Per the DigiKey catalog , as Howard pointed out. it is a mechanical relay. When the remote unit showed up I will Test it out and do a full report complete with pictures. As I see it the big problem will rigging a connector to plug in the new remote rig. The standard start switch is a 4 pin connector. but looking at one it looks like a 3 pin connector will work allowing me to use a standard servo connector. The other trick will be getting power to receiver. I suspect I will accomplish this with a Y connector between the timer and the ESC.

Dwayne Donnelly · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2020, 08:30:47 AM »

There's a older gentleman in our RC club that sometimes fly's C/L , he has converted to electric with a receiver and car transmitter, works very well.

John Rist · « **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2020, 06:11:49 PM »

Quote from: Dwayne Donnelly on July 15, 2020, 08:30:47 AM

There's a older gentleman in our RC club that sometimes fly's C/L , he has converted to electric with a receiver and car transmitter, works very well.

It does work well. Seems to be the method of choice in scale to control the throttle although most use a airplane radio not a car radio. The airplane radio has a throttle stick that is not spring loaded. That way you can set the throttle and it will stay where yo put it.

Martin Kuehschelm · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2020, 01:12:03 PM »

Have a Look to my solution. It works since 5 years.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/safety-by-wireless-switch/

Martin

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #15 on:** July 16, 2020, 04:24:48 PM »

Martin,
This was the kind of cut off I was thinking about. Is it still available? Is there a way of doing something with an electronic switch rather than a mechanical relay? Since it is not on the 2.4Hz radio it would not be allowed in competition but this would be only for practice and could be replaced with a jumper for contest work leaving the timer.

It amazed me the comments about why you don't need it. I guess some people don't like change that would make electric safer. Please send any updated information on a source.

Best, DennisT

Howard Rush · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2020, 05:47:20 PM »

Quote from: Martin Kuehschelm on July 16, 2020, 01:12:03 PM

Have a Look to my solution. It works since 5 years.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/safety-by-wireless-switch/

Martin

Thanks. The discussion on that thread is valuable.

Martin Kuehschelm · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2020, 03:06:30 AM »

Hallo Dennis,

at the moment I have no other solution than the one with the relay - sorry. Searching the term like "1 Channel 5V Mini AC DC Wireless Remote Control Switch" you will find a circuit in internet.
I think this looks good:

Quote

Something like this might work - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Control-Latching-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B082WXR37T/ref=pb_allspark_session_sims_desktop_60_6/189-4058637-5824117?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B082WXR37T&pd_rd_r=77458ad2-9f24-4f4d-a598-3eb2e4316775&pd_rd_w=pUqfR&pd_rd_wg=hezKe&pf_rd_p=6dab4af8-14d2-4d59-b0a2-dd973ff1f166&pf_rd_r=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5&psc=1&refRID=79JJE7E65C2QHMZ6B4E5.

I mean the wireless switch is allowed on competition. The rule is:

Quote

... any device or system is permitted including the use of 2.4 GHz Spread Spectrum technology legal for use in the country of competition. The competitor will determine the suitability for use of the chosen system. Any such device or system:
1) ...
2) must not affect any other model.

On competition I have no problem with it.

Best, Martin

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2020, 06:27:08 AM »

Martin,
I will do some searches and see what comes up. I sent Will Hubin a note and asked if he could read through this thread and see what could be adapted to his series of timers.

For us in the US current for remote wireless activation AMA rules don't allow anything but the 2.4Hz radio signal. I have ask why and gotten lots of push back that just seems people think it would open the door for all kinds of computer controlled inputs. Doesn't make sense if you limit it to "off" only input but that's the way it is for now.

Igor's concern about the relay resetting the timer is something that would be a problem. I have had my timer reset on one occasion but this was due to me shutting off the power switch and turning it back on very quickly to start another flight. That quick off/on of the main power cause the problem. If you just shut it off doesn't that cut all power to the relay also? Other option is to locate the cut-off further away from the timer and ESC or maybe just put some copper screening around it to form a Faraday cage what do you think?

Best, DennisT

John Rist · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2020, 07:52:53 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Toth on July 17, 2020, 06:27:08 AM

Martin,
Igor's concern about the relay resetting the timer is something that would be a problem. I have had my timer reset on one occasion but this was due to me shutting off the power switch and turning it back on very quickly to start another flight. That quick off/on of the main power cause the problem. If you just shut it off doesn't that cut all power to the relay also? Other option is to locate the cut-off further away from the timer and ESC or maybe just put some copper screening around it to form a Faraday cage what do you think?

Best, DennisT

I don't think Igor's concern is about RF interference resetting the timer. He his referring to relay contact bounce resetting things. The remote works on 433mhz, I suspect the same frequency range as a car garage door opener works. I don't think RF is the issue. Besides 433mhz will not interfere with any RC flight activity. AMA concern is that what we use for control line doesn't interfere with RC flight. So, locating the cut-off further away from the timer and ESC and or putting some copper screening around it not an applicable issue for this setup.

When my remote control key fob unit arrives I will be testing it on a KR timer. I don't think the KR timer will care about relay bounce. My big concern is what does the remote unit's relay do during power-up. Hopefully nothing, that the relay just stays in the normally open mode. The KR timer needs the start switch to stay in the open mode during power-up of the timer.

Martin Kuehschelm · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2020, 07:54:16 AM »

Hallo Dennis,

I don’t know the right way working with Igor’s timer. All my Timers have a push button for switching On and Off.
You have two ways: you can switch the power for the timer or the control signal. But the relay circuit must be on the power all the time. One idea is also to replace the slide switch for Igor’s timer by the relay ciruit.

Best, Martin

Martin Kuehschelm · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2020, 08:10:47 AM »

Hallo John,

on my system I’ve never any problems with bounce effects, but off course I can’t exclude it.
I know it’s a chinese gadget produced on the cheapest way, it’s no high tech product with safety certificate. ;-)
I use it as a second way to cut off the motor.

Martin

Author Topic: Electric remote shut down? (Read 1371 times)

Rick_Huff

Rick_Huff