Author Topic: Electric Shark Yatsenko raw balsa kit (Read 5390 times)

jose modesto · « **on:** August 15, 2011, 07:42:44 AM »

The Yatsenko brothers have produced a raw balsa electric Shark
The yatsenkos, in response to the new AMA BOM, have developed a raw balsa kits in 3 phases of constructions.
The new raw balsa Sharks are available in electric and Gas.
Photos my Electric Shark phase 3 kit.
Jose Modesto

William DeMauro · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2011, 07:47:23 AM »

Looks real nice!!!!! When do we go fly it?

Larry Wong · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2011, 08:00:14 AM »

Look's great as a take apart, were and when can we buy it?

Keith Renecle · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2011, 08:05:04 AM »

Wow...........that's awesome! Any idea how they make stuff like this Jose? I can understand making composite parts in molds etc., but how on earth to you make balsa parts like this?? Can you give us the price for these kits if possible? Thanks.

Keith R

Igor Burger · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2011, 08:49:09 AM »

they make all models from balsa, also those with paint on top ... balsa in the middle and glass fromboth sides vacued in negative mold

I am just asking myself if this is really BOM ... at least when I read latest definition (not glued anything), I cannot imagine how this could be BOM, only if they send also the mold in the kit :- ))))))

jose modesto · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2011, 09:07:48 AM »

Igor the phase 3 shark is not BOM the phase 1 and 2 are AMA BOM legal
The kit was produced for me in a phase 3 kit.
I used the model to show the Nat's administrates how the Yatsenko's were complying with the prefinish objections to their fiberglass and primer white models.
The phase 2 kit requires that you install and align the take apart system for the wing and tail and also apply the complete finish.
MY MODEL IN THE PHOTOS DOES NOT CURRENTLY COMPLY WITH AMA BOM
THIS POSTING MUST NOT BE TURNED INTO A BOM ARGUMENT.
Jose Modesto

Igor Burger · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2011, 09:13:01 AM »

aha ... ok, I understand ... and what is the phase 1? because when I tried to read the BOM definition I got imagination, that the only aloowed operation with balsa is cutting

BTW ... sorry for that, I do not want to argue if it is or not, just I would like to know how it looks when it IS BOM legal, because it is not clear to me

jose modesto · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2011, 10:06:08 AM »

Igor first congratulations on your European championship. Great win personally and for the Electric comunity.
The AMA BOM currently allow a full component kit manufactured and constructed by others. ARC. The objection to the Sharks was first the fact that most came with white primer. Second objection was to the fiberglass cloth and epoxy outer surface. Third the level of construction.
The solutions was to first create a model with raw balsa exterior. This model eliminated objection one and two. in order to match an ARC kit the take apart hardware in the wing must be installed by the builder also the stab and elevator take apart system must be installed by the builder. Phase one Kits also requires you to attach,fin, canopy turtledeck,cheek cowls and landing gears balsa fairings and wheel pants.
Hope this helps.
the challenge with the written rule is that facts on the ground have changed the rule with out the actual rule ever being altered. Thus and ARC is legal but the rule does not specifically allowe it.
NOTE: most objections were to the models being purchased with white primer and the shark pilots having a finishing advantage. This prefinish was further expanded to include any fiberglass cloth to exterior flying surfaces.
the solutions to the objections are listed above.
JoseModesto

Igor Burger · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15, 2011, 10:15:46 AM »

First of all thanks Jose fro congratulation,

The second - again, BOM rule does anot apply to me, I am jus curiose how much and what way are those parts prefabricated. I know their models and also how they do it, I am curiouse what is exactly deliveder in every phase ... for example if pase 1 contain molds ... I thin so, because those models are built around molds, but what is exactly that mold? is a glass over that ? from both sides? If not, what keeps the shape? Are they two halves for each side? Menas 4 molds for whole wing? What are flaps done from? Do they have glass over? ... I hope you know what I mean.. I am just curiouse what and in what condition is prepared and sold.

jose modesto · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15, 2011, 11:32:52 AM »

Igor the objective was to match an ARC model that is currently AMA BOM compliant.
The "E" Shark is fabricated with NO glass cloth inside or outside. The models are fabricated in the same process as a model with white primer.
The phase 1,2 and 3 models in raw balsa
Phase one model, wing panels in 2 pieces, inboard and outboard panels with out installing take apart system in wing. The fuse comes with the wing take apart system installed. You have to align the wing as you would in a ARC.
The stab take apart system is installed in the stab but the carbon fiber sleeve is not installed in fuse requiring that you align the stab
Igor if you are familiar with Al Rabe construction this E model is constructed in that manner.

Jose Modesto

PerttiMe · « **Reply #10 on:** August 15, 2011, 12:30:14 PM »

Quote from: Larry Wong on August 15, 2011, 08:00:14 AM

were and when can we buy it?

At least sofar, I've assumed that people get their Sharks straight from the Yatsenkos:
http://discovery-aeromodels.com/

... never seen anyone quote a firm price. Correct me if I'm wrong.

jose modesto · « **Reply #11 on:** August 15, 2011, 01:05:05 PM »

As far as price for me. Since I work in dollars and the models are priced in euros the dollar amount is always different depends on the exchange rate.
The best way is to email them and ask abot the late.st pricing
For model above 1800 euros
Jose

Keith Renecle · « **Reply #12 on:** August 15, 2011, 11:20:46 PM »

Are the wings foam cores? It looks like it in the photo. The older models were built up if I'm not mistaken. I'm looking forward to seeing your finished model, and I'm sure that you will post some of the methods here. Nice project and thanks for sharing it with us!

Keith R

jose modesto · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2011, 06:50:40 AM »

Keith R. Take a look at my posting of William Demauro's All shell composite SV22. there you have some construction photos.
added photos showing a Impact molded shell fuse. Last photo is the fuse from my Nat's Model
Jose Modesto

jose modesto · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2011, 07:18:33 AM »

Keith the wings are built similar to the fuse. My method is to mold the balsa shells as above. then use a lost foam jig that was made for my system.
Note: the wings can also be built in the female molds. You just mark the rib stations in female molds and proceed to build a lost foam wing.
Jose Modesto

Igor Burger · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2011, 07:31:26 AM »

Thans Jose, yes I know how that building method.

Your pictures are great ... so now I can clearly ask what I am curiose ... what is included in pahse 1 and what is in phase 2 ... your pictures show all steps between flat balsa and finished fuse like you have in phase3 ... so what is included in phase 1 and what in phase 2? ... I hope now I ask better for that what I would like to know :- ))))))))

jose modesto · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2011, 08:23:45 AM »

Igor a couple of photos from the Yatsenko's
Yak phase 1 kit
Shark phase 3 kit
Igor the latest photos posted are of my models constructed in my shop. The current line up consist of paul Walker Impact,Randy Smith SV22,My Impact master and Bob Hunt's Saturn
Jose Modesto

Keith Renecle · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2011, 11:34:08 AM »

Quote from: jose modesto on August 16, 2011, 07:18:33 AM

Keith the wings are built similar to the fuse. My method is to mold the balsa shells as above. then use a lost foam jig that was made for my system.
Note: the wings can also be built in the female molds. You just mark the rib stations in female molds and proceed to build a lost foam wing.
Jose Modesto

Thanks Jose, I appreciate the info and photos. You are indeed a master builder, and have perfected this composite construction system over some years now. The Yatsenko brothers also started with this method many years ago, and they have a real talent for making top quality stunters. They also fly pretty well too!

Keith R

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2011, 08:46:07 PM »

It just occurred to me ... A YAK with a pusher prop is SCALE

Dean P.

RC Storick · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2011, 11:14:22 PM »

I have to say it but this is still not a builder kit Jose

Its a ARF you have to paint and screw together. Sure you have to glue 2 sides of the fuse together. Theses kits will not be builder kits until they are all raw balsa and the wing has to be built. You keep saying about quick builds. I see them being done away with in the next rules cycle. There is no easy way.

Also its for 1 contest. Question if the yatsinkos were so worried about getting these kits in why do they not post here and tell us why its a builders kit?

Igor Burger · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2011, 01:12:42 AM »

So now I am really lost ... is that phase 1 BOM or not? ... if I understand from pictures and Jose description, it is molded balsa, without glas over, with glued ribs in fuselage ... right?

PerttiMe · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2011, 02:12:00 AM »

I fail to see why the Yatsenkos would want to get involved in AMA politics over a rule that is only applicable in a couple of classes at one contest.

People seem to like their products anyway.

jose modesto · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2011, 06:36:10 AM »

Igor I posted a phase one kit of yak as requested by you. I did not understand that you wanted the BOM kit.
The Yatsenkos have worked with Orestes Hernandes (our 2x national champion and our 3rd place world placing USA team member) in developing the Shark for AMA competition.
Robert the photos of the Yak were posted As requested nothing to do with AMA BOM.
The current rule allows an ARC to compete at the NATS. Robert you can see how easy you can have the raw balsa kit become AMA BOM compliant. Just remove the take apart system from wing and stab.The builder must assemble and paint.Those are the current requirements ASSEMBLE AND PAINT ALL Components can be built by others.
In the future who mows what the rules will be.Today and the next NATS the kits will be legal for NATS competition.
Igor I will request from the Yatsenkos photos of AMA BOM compliant models for your review.
As I stated in my post the raw balsa Shark posted IS NOT A AMA BOM MODEL.
Jose Modesto

Igor Burger · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2011, 06:39:39 AM »

Yeees that will be great .. that is exactly what I would like to see :-)

Derek Barry · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2011, 10:30:43 AM »

There has to be a point, somewhere between RTFs and flat balsa kits that we can all agree on. Despite my numerous arguments for doing away with the shark I am happy to see something that is much closer to what I concider a "kit". The phase 1 raw balsa kit would be good enough to please me. I think the amount of construction and "finish" required to build this new shark is comparable with the "quick build kits" that are widely available and accepted at this time. To be quite honest I am tired of this BOM stuff, I just want to fly.........

Derek

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #25 on:** August 18, 2011, 11:41:23 AM »

Greetings Friends!
I will happily move this entire thread to the appropriate place. Opinions or preferences as to where?

take care,
Dean P.

jose modesto · « **Reply #26 on:** August 18, 2011, 12:23:24 PM »

Dean the model posted is of a Yatsenko electric Shark. The BOM is a side issue not the primary point.
The model is ELECTRIC STUNT FIRST Not BOM.
In my initial post I asked that this thread not be turned into a BOM FOR OR AGAINST.
I presented the model for the E community to see what is going on with the Yatsenkos and the electric models.
The BOM portion was a response to Igor question about legality of such models in AMA competition not anything more.
I can build anything that I want in any manner that I want. My skill set has been developed over 45 years of stunt building and shown here For information.
I was asked to post the different levels of kits by Igor. I posted the photos that i have for information as requested the side comments by some were never solicited or primary to the conversation.
DEAN should I start over by simply posting model with no reference to AMA BOM and only discussion based on electric stunt.
As Derek says i just want to fly STUNT and no longer have an interest in AMA BOM WHAT WILL BE WILL BE.
I have stopped flying all gas models and im building up my "E" air force for all future competition. Im on way to the field to test fly my converted Yatsenko Gas Shark will post in that thread the results later today.
Jose Modesto

Igor Burger · « **Reply #27 on:** August 18, 2011, 12:32:00 PM »

Sorry guys, I did not want to turn this tread to any pro or against. And I agree with Jose that this IS electric thread. I am simply curiose where such kits can go and what quality or how prepared for building. Especially because I am surperised that it is possible to prepare balsa parts WITOUT glass surfaces. I am really CURIOSE where they push thing called "KIT" especially prepared for electric and especially called "BOM".

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #28 on:** August 18, 2011, 01:11:04 PM »

Took this thread as an elelctric Shark. I think it should stay here but remain on topic.

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #29 on:** August 18, 2011, 08:57:07 PM »

Hi Gang,
As long as you are comfortable with it here!
Let me offer a BOM-ish thought: If a fellow as clever as my friend Igor is confused about the intent of the new rules proposals; then they must be either vague and unclear, or do not say what their authors intend!

with the grenade pin still in my other hand ...
Dean

Larry Wong · « **Reply #30 on:** August 18, 2011, 09:02:41 PM »

Whats the difference between Tom's component kit, and all Raw balsa kit ? and it seams that it's only the Nats. not local and FAI !

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #31 on:** August 18, 2011, 09:32:00 PM »

Quote from: Larry Wong on August 18, 2011, 09:02:41 PM

Whats the difference between Tom's component kit, and all Raw balsa kit ? and it seams that it's only the Nats. not local and FAI !

OK, this post should be considered off topic. I think we should keep this on topic by asking question specific to the electric Shark or its set up.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #32 on:** August 18, 2011, 09:43:20 PM »

Chris your right there is a lot of innovation in Yuri's Electric, is the motor mounted in front ? looks like a metal mount. what does he use to glue it in? like R/C planes Carbon / Fiberglass shell some are glued in with Silicone for soft mount. Questions lots of new ideas...

jose modesto · « **Reply #33 on:** August 19, 2011, 02:07:38 AM »

Larry the motor is mounted on a fire wall former. Take a look at the photos of my Shark gas to electric conversion. the gas and electric fuse are shown together for comparison. The f1 metal former is used behind the spinner.
Jose Modesto

Igor Burger · « **Reply #34 on:** August 19, 2011, 03:00:02 AM »

Quote from: Dean Pappas on August 18, 2011, 08:57:07 PM

my friend Igor is confused about the intent of the new rules proposals

Because I never deeply studied those rules and especially new proposals, and therefore I do not want to judge if it is on not BOM, I am simply curious how they can make such electric kit which is considered to be BOM. Simply because we have also our local classes with BOM rule and we plan new, and it looks that since we go to electric, kits are also changing, so I simply want to see those BOM kits and to know what I can expect from them and what not

If nothing else I learned that such molding can be made for kit also without glas, it was surprise for me, I expected that skin in such kit (for sending, long term storing, constructung without molds) needs glas surface, this thread is here on proper place and very informative ... at least for me. I hope we will see that BOM kit.