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Author Topic: Electric prop choices  (Read 1694 times)

Offline Bob Hudak

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Electric prop choices
« on: March 28, 2011, 07:36:45 PM »
 I'm in the process of putting together an electric Vector Arf. It's gonna have a Turnigy 3548-1100 motor in the nose. In researching a prop to spin it looks like the majority of fliers use a 12x6ep running at 8500-8700 rpm. I have a fuelie Vector Arf with a Tower .40 spinning an 11x5 at 9700 rpm. Would I be going wrong trying to dial my electric motor in with the same prop at the same rpm? Why do larger diameter props with high pitch seem to be the way the majority of the setups are going?
         Bob
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Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 08:24:58 PM »
they aren't really what everyone is using.....a lot of people use the EP - prop as it is a pusher and turns the other way - helping with tension in overheads and other critical places in the pattern.

You can run the APC 11x 5.5 E on your vector and have it running about the same RPM as your wet system.

In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 08:30:03 PM »
Are you flying with 3 cells or 4?  The 1100 kv will require 6" pitch on 3 cells, on 4 cells it will be happier spinning up a little faster with a 5.5 or even the 4.5" pitch.
Castle recommends the throttle setting is at least 70% to 85% for best governing performance:

* for the 12x6 pusher on 4 cells with the 1100 kv motor the 8200 RPM represents a 50% throttle setting. Even with 3S you are only at 67% throttle.

* 11x5.5 Pusher turning about 9700-9800 RPM on 4S is around 60% throttle, on 3S it is an 80% throttle setting

* 11/4.5 Pusher turning about 11,200 on 4S is about 69% throttle; on 3S it would require almost 92% throttle (too much!)

Of these choices either the 12x6P on 3S or the 11x4.5P on 4S (my choice) look like the best options...



Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 09:53:13 PM »
I forgot about the 11 x 4.5EP..........
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 12:05:42 AM »
Hi Bob,
The Tower .40 is a great engine for sport stunt. I've used plenty of them with 11 x 5 props. Just remember that when you say you're turning 9700 rpm, that this is on the ground. The engine can unload another 1000 to even 1500 rpm in the air. I've measured this with an audio tach some years ago when I was making diesels out of Tower .40's. Just by the way, the diesel only picks up 500 rpm in the air. Now with electric stunt, you need to run a governor system, so the rpm will stay the same in the air. Therefore you will need more pitch to run at 9700.

Dennis mentioned the 1100 kv already, and as he says, this is more suited to a 3-cell Lipo. My standard replacement for the .40 size engines is a motor with a kv of 850 to around 900 with an APC 11 x 5.5 prop, either the pusher or the standard tractor prop. The rpm is set between 9600 to 9800 depending on the conditions and your personal flying preferences. I have had plenty of success with the E-Max/Arrowind 2820 motors for this size of model powered by a 4-cell 2200 mAh Lipo. The motor hardly gets warm when you get the right airflow through it, and I've even run 12 x 6 props on it as well.

The CC specs from Dennis are spot on, and this is why the majority of us would recommend a motor with a lower kv and a 4-cell setup. The current will be lower and a 40 amp esc will work perfectly.

Keith R
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Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2011, 05:03:38 AM »
I forgot about the 11 x 4.5EP..........

Yeah, I usually do to.  However it is a pretty reasonable choice if you have a system that needs to spin-up a little faster, and there really is not anything wrong with that.

I plan on using some this seas, along with 11x5.5P's on some other set-ups that are matched to it.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 02:01:06 PM »
Lots of good info! Thanks guys. Dennis, Ill be starting with a 3300mah 4s battery. I will need to get the 11/5.5 and 11/4.5 prop to see which one the Vector flies best with.At least now I have some target rpm to start with. Keith, I didn't realize the electric motor held the rpm, I thought it unloaded like the IC engine( I'm gonna like the Hi gov mode).I like what the Castle Ice Lite 50A ESC offers in data log files. I ran the 1100kv motor for 6 min. in my garage(no earplugs!)at 8700 rpm on a 12/6 ep. I averaged 27 amps on 14.5 volts avg. This is about 390 watts,not much. I had about 600 mah left in battery.  I need to make changes if I expect the battery last(used a bit more than 80%) and the plane to pull through manuevers,it felt like it needed more more thrust. I read about a million old posts and still counting before I hit the go button on the timer. Gonna read some more before I let it fly. When I get it right I'll put info in "list your setup".
Bob
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Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 07:39:41 AM »
Hello Bob,
How heavy will the airplane be?This will help us estimate your battery capacity used.
Please recognize that governed-RPM running current under static conditions is almost a third higher than the current at the same RPM and in level flight.
With the prop you used, your average flying current could be 3/4 of that same 27A @ 8,700 RPM, or ~ 21A.
If the plane weighs in the mid-to-upper forties, you will in good shape.
Dean
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Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2011, 03:45:45 PM »
Dean,
 The Vector weighs 40.96 oz. This is with the cowl,all electronics but no battery. The 3300mah Power Wing lipo weighs 12.4 oz. making the plane weigh 53.36 oz. I removed the cowl(.96 oz.)to balance the plane bringing the airplane weight to 52.4 oz. with the battery. I need a battery that weighs about a ounce less so I can install the cowling on the plane. I didn't want to cut the wing leading edge to move the battery back more. I have the ESC and timer installed as far back as the wires on them would allow.The ICE Lite 50A ESC is between the landing gear and the Hubin FM 9V timer controls are mounted behind the flaps. The plane balances right where I like the nitro powered Vector(2 7/8" behind L.E.). I would like to end up with a plane that can fly the whole pattern and only use 80% of the battery capacity.
 I hope this is enough information
Bob
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Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 04:54:35 PM »
Here's a few pics of the electronics install.
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Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 04:56:16 PM »
And a few more pics.
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Offline John Cralley

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 07:24:13 PM »
Bob,

Batteries come in different shapes and weights. From your photos it appears that your battery is rather long and "skinny". If you use a short and "fat battery maybe you can move the CG back because it will not extend so far forward.

Here is an inexpensive battery that weighs 12.7 oz and is 5.4 inches long. Will it fit in your compartment???

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9501

Here is another at 12.1 oz and is the same length:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15017

Search around and see what is available.

John

John Cralley
Scratch Built - Often Re-kitted!!!
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Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2011, 09:54:01 AM »
Looks nice and neat, Bob.
At 52 ounces you might expect about 2.3 Amp-hours of battery consumption per flight with a 4s battery.
A 3.3 A-h battery will yield 70% depth of charge use, which is ideal, to my battery coddling way of thinking.
At 52 ounces, though, I'll bet you'll be happier with a 12-inch doameter prop.
In additon to Dennis fine suggestions, I'd lay in a supply of the 13-4.5P's and start by clipping one to 12".

More diameter hardly touches the average power consumption,
but it dramatically raises the current on the ground and in climbs to the top of the circle; while further reducing the current during dives and during wind-driven whip-up.

The corner-killing effect of prop diameter is less with electric: probably because our actual in-air RPM is less, so there is no reason to fear diameter unless ground clearance is an issue.

let us know how it goes,
  Dean P.
 
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2011, 07:40:13 AM »
Bob,
 The Turnigy Nano 3300 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11924 weigh 337 grams according to their site. Between myself, Ron H, and Frank (a new e convert here in NY), we have 10 of those. I've weighed all 10 and my average weight is actually about 330 grams or 11.6 oz. Once I remove those bulky connectors and put Deans on them the weight will drop a little more. These have good write ups on RC groups and can be charged at up to 5C. They are currently out of stock but they always seem to get new stock of these within a few days. If you sign up with them they will even notify you when they come in.
AMA 98010

Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Electric prop choices
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2011, 02:30:42 PM »
I took the Vector out for a few test flights today.Flew 4.7 sec laps and used 2726 mah in 5:30 min.
 I was at the Toledo show and scored a Thunder Power 2700mah battery that weighs 8.7 oz. Thats 3.8 oz. less than what I'm currently using,but I need to get the battery usage down. I'm going to try lowering the rpm's from 10100rpm  to whatever it likes for 5.1 sec. lap times. I may need a different motor to achieve my goal.
 I have the Turnigy SK3548-900 to try if I don't hit my mark with the Turnigy SK3548-1100. I was tickled silly with the maiden flight. Flying electric is like cheating on steroids.
                                                Welcome to the Future,
                                                          Bob
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