News:


  • May 21, 2024, 12:07:19 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF  (Read 1866 times)

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« on: November 14, 2011, 08:13:06 PM »
What would be the recommended purchases to go electric on the PT-19 ARF? I think this might be a good model to try electric on. I have many years experience off and on with glo engines and building planes, but no experience with electric powered planes. I would want the power equivalent of a good OS .35 FP.  Due to the lack of noise it would not be an attention grabber like a glo engine; I might be able to get in a few schoolyard or soccer field flights.
From what I have read, this ARF has a weak nose like most ARF profiles.  Hopefully, electric power would be easier on the motor mounts than glo.

Offline William DeMauro

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 796
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 08:51:42 PM »
Go through the list your setup for similar size planes. There is a local guy flying one with a budget system on his that works great.
I believe he is using this motor Exceed RC Rocket 3020-860kv Brushless Motor for RC Plane  Available here
http://www.hobbypartz.com/86mb27-rocket-3020-860kv.html. with these batteries GENS ACE 3300mah 4S1P 14.8V 25C Lipo battery pack. available here
http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-25c-3300-4s1p.html With a PHX 35 and a Hubin FM7 timer. There are many other setups that will work. Allot depends on your budget. I'm sure others will recommend some good turnkey systems too. By the way his plane did come out tail heavy.(yours may not but it is something to watch for)
AMA 98010

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2011, 09:36:45 PM »
Tail heavy even with a battery pack?
That motor is only 330 watts.  I believe a good .35 IC motor would be close to 650 to 700 watts equivalent.

Online Dennis Adamisin

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4344
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 04:43:34 AM »
The H9 PT-19's are often being tail heavy, IC or electric.  Mine turned out OK because I forced a way-forward battery location for the (9 oz) 4Sx2600 pack.  Motor is a E-Flite Power 15 (nice piece!) it has a Phx 35 and Hubin timer in its future.

The motor is equivalent to a 2815 (internal dimensions) or a 35-36 (external dimensions)  The Exceed 3020 Will mentioned would fall into the former catagory, would allow for driving larger props (11"-12" easily) and would also provide an additional 1.5 oz in nose weight versus the Power 15 - which could come in handy.

Wattage ratings for motors have proven to be a bit problematic (Accuracy?  Test conditions?) Wattage (HP equivalance) for IC engines is pure guesswork.

Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline William DeMauro

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 796
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 05:34:38 AM »
John,
 I double checked and yes his motor is the 3020-860kv version. He is swinging an 11x5.5 thin electric pusher on his. I am also using the exact same setup on a Banshee for my son and plan on using it again on a Twister my son and I are building. Neil Beekman will be using it on an ARF Nobler for next year. And Bob Champione has it on an ARC P 40 which we flew twice without problems. If you want to consider the next size up in this brand, DON'T, find a different brand. Those are 10 pole motors and do not work too well with the Castle controllers unless you run them in Set RPM mode. Besides the power 15 and the exceed motor, The Scorpion 3020-890 would would work well but the cost is allot more. I haven't tried one but I bet the Turnigy G15 would work well http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14402__Turnigy_G15_Brushless_Outrunner_950kv.html (looks like they attempted to copy a power 15) Ron H as also had great success with the Turnigy 42-40 900 in his planes of a similar size http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4912__TR_42_40B_900kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Eq_3520_AXi.html.
William
AMA 98010

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 06:35:25 AM »
Dennis,
Thank you for the pictures.  Did you make the motor mount yourself?  This may be a dumb question, but where is the speed concontroller and timer on your model?  I'm so ignorant of electric power I don't even know what they look like on the model or how much they weigh.  I have a lot of IC propellers.  Could I use one of my Taipan 10x6 wides?

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12821
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 09:07:40 AM »
Dennis,
Thank you for the pictures.  Did you make the motor mount yourself?  This may be a dumb question, but where is the speed concontroller and timer on your model?  I'm so ignorant of electric power I don't even know what they look like on the model or how much they weigh.  I have a lot of IC propellers.  Could I use one of my Taipan 10x6 wides?
While you're waiting for Dennis to reply:

The ESC and timer are around on the other side of the model.  If you look closely above the battery pack you'll see two cable ties going through holes in the fuse -- I'll bet that you'll find those holding the electronics on over on the other side.

You could use your IC props for just dinking around, but they'll be heavy and inefficient.  Electric props are better.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 09:41:54 AM »
While you're waiting for Dennis to reply:

The ESC and timer are around on the other side of the model.  If you look closely above the battery pack you'll see two cable ties going through holes in the fuse -- I'll bet that you'll find those holding the electronics on over on the other side.

You could use your IC props for just dinking around, but they'll be heavy and inefficient.  Electric props are better.

Why wouldn't the IC propellers be the same on electric as they are on a IC engine?  Performance at 10,000 RPM should be the same on either, or am I missing something?  I understand that IC props are heavier, but once up to speed shouldn't they be the same?  No source of any props nearby, have to order everything.  What electric props are recommended for these size engines?  Over 11" and ground clearance may be a problem. BTW,  I have a few wood BY and O props in 10-6 wide, and they are pretty light.

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12821
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 10:38:16 AM »
Why wouldn't the IC propellers be the same on electric as they are on a IC engine?  Performance at 10,000 RPM should be the same on either, or am I missing something?

IC props should be the same on electric as they are on IC, yes.  But electric props take advantage of the fact that they can be more lightly built to have thinner, and therefore more efficient, blades.  So an electric prop on an electric should be better.

But if it's a real pain to get electric props, and if you need nose weight anyway, I suspect that you'll be fine with IC props.

(Some people are running electric props on their IC engines.  This makes me wonder about insurance coverage, and I'm sure to stay out of the plane of rotation of the prop when it's running).
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Dean Pappas

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 03:02:04 PM »
Hi Gang,
Hello John,
Couple of good questions there ...
Tailhaviness with an E-conversion happens more often than you would imagine!
Yes, the E-props are generally lighter and more efficient, but the big thing is that we predominantly run reverse rotation these days.
This garners us all the advantages that the southpaw/clockwise flyers had with glow!
Dean Pappas

Online Dennis Adamisin

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4344
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 03:30:00 PM »
Hi John
First off, I see from the number of posts that you are sorta new around here so WELCOME ABOARD!

The "hi tack" motor mounts were made from extruded .062" x .5" x .75" aluminum angle that I got from the local ACE hardware.  I hacksawed a couple pieces about 2" long then filed off the ends till they were the same size and shape.  Drilled 4 holes for the crossing bolts through the fuselage.  The H9 fuselage is not solid so you have to be a little careful about how you located the crossing bolts.

As Tim W said the ESC & Timer are simply tie-wrapped to the opposite side of the fuse. The model was built with the E-Flite Timer & ESC but I really prefer the Hubin timer and a Castle ESC would improve RPM hold.

As for props, using an IC prop will not prevent you from flying your electric.  The electric props are generally thinner and more efficient - meaning they use less power to get the job done, but as you say 10,000 RPM is 10,000 RPM!  As Dean pointed out, Left-hand or Pusher props are a nice addition too.  If you use IC Props avoid the really heavy IC props and use those Y&O woods (or similar).
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 07:13:44 PM »
Dennis,
Thanks for the pictures and explanations!  What combination of motor, ESC, timer, propellers, and battery packs should I order and from whom?  I really need part numbers. 
I think I could put this all together if I had the parts and a little instruction.  I have built from kits, scratch built, and know some tooling and machine work.

I have flown control line off and on since the 1960's, when I started off with half-A models, and have come back four times since, the last time about 7 years ago.  I still have all my I/C stuff and about seven models from the last two incursions.  I have my own flying site now, WAY out in the sticks, so hopefully I can stick with it.  I am in the difficult process of developing a larger circle than I currently have out in an open field, but it's rough and time consuming.  Every time I have suspended C/L before it has been due to loss of a place to fly.  I may have met you at the 2000 NATS.

Online Dennis Adamisin

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4344
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 08:42:53 PM »
John:
Brodak has a series of electric power systems, see the attached list.  As a generality, consider what size prop you want to use, and the components shown will get the job for you.

I was not flying control line in 2000, so unless you were at the RC sailplane event we probably did not meet at the 2000 NATs..!   010!
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2011, 09:22:03 PM »
Dennis,
From your attachment, it looks like the EPS-35 Sport or EPS-35 Pro would work well for the PT-19 ARF.  I imagine the Sport is a little less expensive than the Pro.

Online Dennis Adamisin

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4344
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2011, 04:38:09 AM »
You can price out either system at Brodak site to get comparison.  The motors are the same saize as the Power 15 in the pix of my PT-19, the pack is slightly larger with 2800 (not 2600) mah capacity.

You can also use this chart as a guide if you are picking "Brand X" component$.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2011, 09:56:12 AM »
Electric looks to be over my budget for right now.  I did not realize it was so expensive.  Would cost over $300 just to get started from Brodaks with two batteries.  I can put an existing (in my collection) IC engine in a new plane for nearly nothing.  No worries about noise as long as I fly out on my remote property, and I currently have PLENTY of fuel.  Maybe prices will come down, or I can get the electric things a piece at a time.  Need to think about reinforcing the nose on that H9 PT-19 ARF for IC.  Thanks, everyone, for your guidance.  It looks like, at this time, that I should stick with my glo engines.  But, I will be keeping an open mind to new developments or bargains.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 04:49:57 PM by John Fitzgerald »

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12821
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2011, 10:37:53 AM »
There's more budget alternatives, and if you're actually buying fuel then I do think that electric pays for itself.

But given that I have a small stash of used engines that's effectively keeping me from going electric, and that I'm pretty darned pro-electric, I can see your point.

With electrics, smaller is definitely cheaper -- so if you want to get started with smaller models, that'll save money.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Fitzgerald

  • No longer an AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 12:32:29 PM »
Tim,
Would it change your mind about costs if you had several gallons of fuel to use up?

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12821
Re: Electric power for Hangar 9 PT-19 ARF
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 12:41:19 PM »
Well, given that I'm already not going electric because I have engines -- no, having fuel on hand would just firm up my resolution.  I waver most on the "no electric yet" decision whenever I buy a gallon of fuel (and buying a case is going to create serious issues!) -- if I had a ton of fuel stored up it would be a no brainer for me.

So -- I see your situation quite clearly, and I can't agree with you more.  Eventually prices will go down, and we may even start seeing electric stuff for sale used.  For now I think that electric has reached parity for someone starting from scratch, but hasn't gotten cost effective enough for folks who have a pile of IC stuff sitting around.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here