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Author Topic: Electric Plane Trimming-do and don't  (Read 1588 times)

Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Electric Plane Trimming-do and don't
« on: August 07, 2017, 04:57:13 PM »
Hello,
The initial issue was hunting and then rolling and take off of my electric planes. Please visit https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/plane-trimming-no-side-issues-please-this-time/ to see what was discussed, otherwise this what I wrote below will be out of context.

Today, I have tested eParrot (please see the attached) in six flights. The main objective was to check if the plane rolls better and longer if the release is at the moment when the propeller starts rotating. All flights took off from the hard surface.

Previously, I waited with release (I am using the stooge) until the motor reached governed RPM.
I am using Keith Renecle's governor in which first four seconds of the motor run are ungoverned.
 
The results were as follows:

1. Reasonably good rolling for about four seconds and then sudden acceleration with the governed RPM and take off.
2. There was no plane jumping and up and down tail wagging like in the case when the plane was held in the stooge for four seconds and then released.

Ad.1 and 2: the foam tires were made more slippery by wrapping the electrical nylon tape around them. This resulted in less frictional resistance in the Y airplane direction and, consequently, in less bending and twisting of the landing gear wires when eParrot started rolling. The landing gear wires and the tires represent the dynamic system that has a tendency to oscillate when the friction force between the tires and the hard surface exceeds certain value.
This value is now lower and this improved the rolling behavior (ref: http://www.maths-in-industry.org/miis/108/1/Airbus-ShimmyReport.pdf.)

I will replace the current wire in the eParrot's landing gear (0.118") by the wire having larger diameter. Perhaps 0.125" will be enough to further limit or even to eliminate the problem.

Grass take off release must be done after four seconds from the motor start for the electrical system to be in the governed mode in case of the prop. strike. This means that the grass take off will be fast and short (I have not tried it yet).

Other issues: the leadouts exits were moved 3/4" FWD following Ted Fancher's suggestion. It seems that this change, associated with the more slippery tires, improved rolling on the hard surface.

The eParrot's nose has been extended and the motor and battery moved FWD ~1.7-1.75". This gave much better grooving and the tendency to hunt disappeared. Whatever "waviness" is seen in the eParrot's level flight now can, in my opinion, be contributed to minute errors in my input, shear wind and/or air turbulence. 

I would be grateful for comments, opinions and suggestions.
Thank you,
Matt





Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: Electric Plane Trimming-do and don't
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 12:48:55 PM »
Hello Everybody,
The conclusion regarding eParrot trimming and other changes:

1. The APC 11x5.5 E pusher prop has been replaced by APC 11x5.5 E prop.
The rolling and take off improved another notch. The annoying "jumpiness" and "tail wagging up and down" disappeared almost completely.
I am still using the old landing gear with wire struts 0.118" dia. and the foam tires wrapped with the electrical tape.

I am reading more about propellers aerodynamics, the propeller-ground-airframe interaction and landing gear shimmy during rolling and take-off.

The propeller direction of rotation change did not, in my opinion, affect the maneuvers. Please remember that my pattern skills level is intermediate and I may not see nor feel minute changes caused by this change.

2. The RPM were raised from ~9,840 to ~9,900 that gave a bit better tension overhead. The time of flight is 5 minutes, start delay is 31 seconds and gain=3. I am using KR Governor that has been reprogrammed by me after the eParrot's motor stopped suddenly and with no apparent reason on Aug.09.
in the top of the hourglass. I checked whatever I could after emergency landing but found nothing wrong.

To my immense surprise, the ground tests performed 15 minutes after the emergency landing and with fresh battery went well, therefore I flew again praying silently to the C/L Stunt Guardian Angel.

Everything went well in this and the next two flights.

After discussing the issue with Keith Renecle and Patrick MacKenzie, I have decided to reprogram the governor from scratch.

I suspect the gradual accumulation of mini errors that, after many flights, may cause "clogging" or "corruption" of the governor's memory or/ and certain governor's functions.

Reprogramming is, in my opinion, similar to re-booting of the PC after unexplained crash (blue screen of death?).
I cannot prove my suspicion at this moment but will be working on it.

Your comments and suggestions are appreciated like always,
Regards,
Matt



Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Electric Plane Trimming-do and don't
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 02:28:37 PM »
How big is the plane?  If it's got a wingspan over 4 feet and/or weighs over 35 ounces or so, you should have 1/8" gear.

If using the proper wire diameter doesn't make the shimmy go away on takeoff, consider turning the wheels outward slightly (or less inward).

One of my planes has a trike gear, and the front wheel shimmies like a demon on takeoff and landing.  I think it leaves a very bad impression on the judges, but it doesn't seem to affect flight performance.

Most of the really good electric pilots I see use full power on takeoff -- even the guys using the Igor Burger system (with one exception) use it, and that system gives you even more acceleration than a constant-speed system does.  So if you're experiencing a jump on takeoff it should be something that can be overcome with trim and piloting changes.  (Getting a nice, smooth, rise-for-one-full-lap takeoff is HARD.  Don't expect to start achieving it even occasionally until you're bumping the top of Advanced, or have moved to Expert).
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: Electric Plane Trimming-do and don't
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 06:15:20 PM »
Hi Tim,
4.37 feet wings span, 49.3 oz. RTF weight, 560 sq.in wings with flaps, 12.7 oz./ft ^2 wings loading.
Yes...I will install the 1/8" dia. steel wire landing gear struts but it may be still not enough to eliminate the shimmy tendency 100% without extra triangular wire supports.
Weight penalty??

I am also considering aluminum spring like gear but to use it I would have to re-build the bottom of the fuselage.

More weight penalty...

Another interesting option is to make the tires hard and very slippery ( turn the entire wheels on a lathe from....yeah...what what?)

I am working on my  take-offs but it will take a while to take off like advanced pilots and then I will have much better plane to fly.

Regards,
M


Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: Electric Plane Trimming-do and don't
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2017, 10:34:09 AM »
Hello,
The remaining shimmy tendency disappeared after adding two piano wire struts to the eParrot landing gear.
Please see the attached.
The plane rolls smoothly now for 25-30 feet and takes off. The landings improved also.

Electrical tape used to wrap the foam wheels not only decreases the friction but also protects the wheels from wear.
If the tape gets rough, I will simply replace it.

The other issues have been also solved ( please see https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/puzzle/).

I consider the trimming process finished and will work on maneuvers with this well flying plane until the winter comes.

Then, I will move indoors to fly my C/L foamies until next season.

Happy Flying,
M


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