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Author Topic: electric pathfinder  (Read 1715 times)

Offline jjorgensen

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electric pathfinder
« on: November 03, 2006, 11:26:48 AM »
I received a Park 370 Outrunner Brushless 1080kV motor as a birthday present.  (wife can't stand the smell of caster)  Does anyone know if this will power a 1/2 a sized pathfinder?  If so, any ideas on battery size and esc that will work with this combo?  I assume a z-tron timer will be needed as well.  Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.
Jim Jorgensen

Offline bob branch

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Re: electric pathfinder
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2006, 09:31:57 PM »
Jim

I have used this motor in rc on a 3D plate foamy, granted a big one, and it was not a real strong power plant. I think I'm using about a 15 amp esc. Alot is going to depend on the what you can work out prop wise. My guess is a small prop is going to be the ticket. Turning anything in the 8 to 9 inch range isn't gonna cut it. Outrunners tend to like smaller props from my experience than brushless can motors. Battery wise a lipo in the 1200 ma range should do it. I have used that size and a 2200 ma battery with it. As to 2S or 3S you will just have to see what kind of power you are making. If you can't get enough 2S go to 3S. Or you can just jump on it with the 3S up front. My guess is that would be the way to go since the motor is not going to have a big surplus of power with a 2S. But then I believe everything just needs "more power". It certainly is the case in RC. I'm just finishing a 40 size 3D plane and have a hot .60 2 stroke in it. To balance the battery will be under the tail.

bob branch

Alan Hahn

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Re: electric pathfinder
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2006, 11:06:51 AM »
The 1080kV means that with 12V, the motor would turn 1080 x 12= 12960 (~13k) RPM with NO prop (this is ignoring any friction in the motor bearings). 12 V is a little less voltage than a fullycharged and unloaded 3 cell series LiPO. The maximum power delivered by the motor occurs roughly (because of any friction) at 1/2 of this maximum rpm, or 6500rpm. You always would like to run the motor above this rpm so that when you pull the nose up and the rpm drops (I am not assuming you are running in governor mode on the electronic speed control (esc)), you can have more power delivered to the prop to minimize the rpm drop. Also flying at 70% of max rpm probably keeps the current draw down.I note that the current draw is max at 0 rpm and minimum at 13krpm (-0 if no friction). Torque is directly proportional to current and is maximum at 0 rpm---where you could burn out your esc if you stalled the prop!  The delivered power to the prop shaft is zero ar both 0 rpm and max rpm. The power burned by the battery (current * voltage) is max at 0 rpm (all your precious energy goes into making heat) and 0 at max rpm (because the current is zero).

Anyway the motivation for all this is that if you are flying at 70% of max rpm, this is 9000 rpm. That is a relatively low rpm for 1/2a stunt so I think you will need a pitch in the 5-6 inch range to get the plane speed in the right range. Choosing the diameter depends on the how much power that motor is rated for. The manufacturer probably has recommendations. Too big a prop will put the rpm's down too low, too small a prop will give high rpms and little power delivered to the prop.

It may sound complicated, but this is trivial stuff compared to understanding the power curve of a 2 or 4 stroke engine.  %^
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 11:35:47 AM by Alan Hahn »

Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: electric pathfinder
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2006, 11:30:16 AM »
Hmm, I love my Norvel powered 1/2A Pathfinder.
Does anyone have an estimated weight of an equivalent  "electric" package - motor, batteries, controller, timer,....?
Probably too heavy to keep total weight at 12 oz., but worth asking and looking in to.
thanks,
Roger
Roger Vizioli
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Florida/Space Coast

Offline phil c

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Re: electric pathfinder
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2006, 07:56:11 PM »
I think Alan has a pretty good starting place there.  Go to your Electri Calc and find a prop with 5-6 in. pitch that the motor can turn at 9000 rpm.  If it's anywhere over 7 in. it should at least fly the plane.  If it actually pulls 12-15 amps at 10-11 volts(120-165 watts) that should be plenty of power for stunting.
phil Cartier

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: electric pathfinder
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2006, 02:37:34 PM »
Hello Jim,
From what I can gather, real equivalency to a good 049 like the Norvel will require about 190 to 200 Watts from the battery. That's based on just under 1/4 horsepower. We will probably benefit from somewhat bigger prop sizes, but you will almost certainly need over 150 Watts to fly the same models well. That works out to maybe 17 Amps on a 3-cell pack.  The park 370/1080 is rated at 110 W, and I'll bet you could push it to 125W. Build light and start out with relatively short line lengths until you get the available power sorted out. You'll probably get about 10,000 RPM out of the motor loaded dowmn, so you can figure out what pitch you'll need based on the lines.
That's the best I've got, short of recommending that you read the excellent stuff that Dick Sarpolus has written on smal E-Stunt in both Flying Models and Model Aviation.

best of luck,
Dean
Dean Pappas


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