Author Topic: Electric motor just stopped (Read 2087 times)

cory colquhoun · « **on:** September 11, 2018, 03:00:28 AM »

Hi, was out flying today when eflite 15 just stopped whilst overhead and splat, was wondering could overheating cause this, it’s an accenter 48 oz flying weight ,cc ice lite 50 ,Hubin fm9,2700 zippy 4s, 10,350 rpm , 58 “ lines. I programmed it for a 4 min flite and it flew great, replaced battery for second flight , and after 3 min it cut out , put both identical batteries on charge and there fine, was approx 5 mins between flights

Cory

TDM · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2018, 06:38:14 AM »

It might be ESC settings. If battery drops below a certain level the ESC will command the shut down.
Anywise you give very little information for us to be able to help. How much you put back in the pack can show indications of battery usage and approximate voltage levels. Motor over heating is hard to predict because even if you run to the plane to get the earliest possible temperature readings you already had 25 seconds from the time the engine stops you land run to get equipment and take readings. Usually small motors will require greater Amps which in turn cause greater battery demand to provide the Amps and also require the ESC to run hot, and vice versa.

Jason Greer · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2018, 11:56:27 AM »

Cory,

Are you logging the current, voltage, and temperature in your ICE 50?

Jason

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2018, 02:06:11 PM »

How about a bad connection? Seen that one. You guys are scaring me. I am moving to electric but from what I am reading it is the same rat race, different rat.

Ken

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #4 on:** September 11, 2018, 03:00:27 PM »

Quote from: Jason Greer on September 11, 2018, 11:56:27 AM

Cory,

Are you logging the current, voltage, and temperature in your ICE 50?

Jason

no, only new ecl, had the set up for a year or so but mainly been flying glow engines

Jason Greer · « **Reply #5 on:** September 11, 2018, 03:49:28 PM »

With your ESC connected to your computer, launch the Castle link software on your computer and click on the logging tab. You'll see something similar to the image I've attached. At a minimum, select the same items that I have checked in the image and 10 samples/sec for the frequency, then update your ESC. Now you'll be able to see what is happening in the air. You can use the Castle Creations Data Log to view the logged data. The second image is an example of what the logged data will look like.

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2018, 09:10:14 PM »

Quote from: Jason Greer on September 11, 2018, 03:49:28 PM

With your ESC connected to your computer, launch the Castle link software on your computer and click on the logging tab. You'll see something similar to the image I've attached. At a minimum, select the same items that I have checked in the image and 10 samples/sec for the frequency, then update your ESC. Now you'll be able to see what is happening in the air. You can use the Castle Creations Data Log to view the logged data. The second image is an example of what the logged data will look like.

thanks will give it a go

Corey

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2018, 10:48:11 PM »

Castle link adapter on its way, thanks for input

Cory

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #8 on:** September 11, 2018, 10:55:58 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on September 11, 2018, 08:16:33 AM

Usually the low voltage cut off is set for a slow wind down. Go back into your ESC settings and see what you have for cut off settings. Did you check each cell of the battery pack. If you have a bad cell the other cells will work harder and you can get a sudden over amp shut off. Also, I have the same system you have and I've had unexplained shut offs trying to run anything over 10,000 rpm with known good batteries, probably high amp or high heat shut off. Try a prop with more pitch (5.5), less rpm (9570) and keep your ESC cool.

Motorman

I have had a slow wind down on a couple of flights before , When the batteries weren’t fully charged, thinking it might be an esc setting as I changed from an ice edge to an ice lite brand new out of the box and the batteries were brand new and fully charged

Cory

TDM · « **Reply #9 on:** September 12, 2018, 06:23:17 AM »

Cory welcome to electric.Usually if things are properly programmed and connected electric will run fine out of the box for the life of the model. There is usually a good explanation why things do not perform or fail in electric.

ESC will shut down due to overheating protection battery protection. Those are parameters you meed to program in to your ESC. Data logging will help with that, if you download it then you can see exactly what is not god.

Most of the issues come from poor connection of components and bad programming of ESCs. Also issues come from when components are too small in size, too small of a motor not enough Amp rating on a ESC or battery too small. If things are too small then the easiest thing to change to release pressure on the system is to go to a bigger motor.

Someone said electric is too easy and is for boys and IC is for men. Then I prefer to stay a boy.

Ken join the program. This is not a different rat at all. My stuff run just about perfect first try out. Other then rpm change it is all 100% predictable. Pros are 100% correct motor run, motor run time ease of start, stupid easy to change rpm for a lap time, Cons there is an initial cost which equivalent to a nice PA motor but there are things you only buy once and you can transfer from one model to the next, battery care and some extra planning before you go fly and after you are done flying. Personally I love the pros and definitely can leave with the cons.

Ken Culbertson · « **Reply #10 on:** September 12, 2018, 07:20:31 AM »

Quote from: TDM on September 12, 2018, 06:23:17 AM

Ken join the program. This is not a different rat at all. My stuff run just about perfect first try out. Other then rpm change it is all 100% predictable. Pros are 100% correct motor run, motor run time ease of start, stupid easy to change rpm for a lap time, Cons there is an initial cost which equivalent to a nice PA motor but there are things you only buy once and you can transfer from one model to the next, battery care and some extra planning before you go fly and after you are done flying. Personally I love the pros and definitely can leave with the cons.

I agree with your assessment. It is just after 60 years of listening to an IC tell me what it wanted and what it could do, I am not thrilled at having to learn a whole new language and set of guidelines. When I go fly I want to only be concerned with getting my act back together. Overcoming little things like not being able to turn around while looking straight up or not having the hairs on the back of your neck tell you which way the wind is blowing all get sidetracked if you are having to worry about your power source. I suppose electric will make that better in the long run as soon as I learn the language.

Ken

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #11 on:** September 12, 2018, 12:30:42 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on September 12, 2018, 11:49:14 AM

Are you still using that 11-4.5 prop?

https://stunthanger.com/smf/esc-settings/fm9-timer-help/

no MM , 11 x 5.5 prop, I’m actually almost finished a Scratch built cardinal which I am going to run ecl, would anyone have any suggestions on a suitable motor and battery, I have a nib turnigy 3542 ,1150kw which I was going to run, or not

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2018, 02:32:34 PM »

Quote from: TDM on September 12, 2018, 06:23:17 AM

Cory welcome to electric.Usually if things are properly programmed and connected electric will run fine out of the box for the life of the model. There is usually a good explanation why things do not perform or fail in electric.

ESC will shut down due to overheating protection battery protection. Those are parameters you meed to program in to your ESC. Data logging will help with that, if you download it then you can see exactly what is not god.

Most of the issues come from poor connection of components and bad programming of ESCs. Also issues come from when components are too small in size, too small of a motor not enough Amp rating on a ESC or battery too small. If things are too small then the easiest thing to change to release pressure on the system is to go to a bigger motor.

Someone said electric is too easy and is for boys and IC is for men. Then I prefer to stay a boy.

Ken join the program. This is not a different rat at all. My stuff run just about perfect first try out. Other then rpm change it is all 100% predictable. Pros are 100% correct motor run, motor run time ease of start, stupid easy to change rpm for a lap time, Cons there is an initial cost which equivalent to a nice PA motor but there are things you only buy once and you can transfer from one model to the next, battery care and some extra planning before you go fly and after you are done flying. Personally I love the pros and definitely can leave with the cons.

thanks TDM, I do like the pros of ecl ,it seems easier to paint and finish a plane not having to fuel proof everything

Cory

TDM · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2018, 06:04:51 PM »

That motor is too small for a cardinal 40.

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #14 on:** September 12, 2018, 07:34:26 PM »

Quote from: TDM on September 12, 2018, 06:04:51 PM

That motor is too small for a cardinal 40.

suggesttions???

Jason Greer · « **Reply #15 on:** September 13, 2018, 07:56:20 AM »

The Cobra 2826/10 would be a good inexpensive option. At 930 kv, you'd want to use a 4 cell battery in the 3000 mah range.
http://www.cobramotorsusa.com/motors-2826-10.html

TDM · « **Reply #16 on:** September 13, 2018, 12:38:18 PM »

I would look somewhere in here too. At a mere 20g extra 195g motor still inexpensive this motor on a 11.5in prop will sip the Amps. You might end up with a 2200mAh 4S pack. So you rob Peter to pay Paul you get bigger motor but much smaller batteries which are easy on pocket, easy on ESC easy on motor and batteries.

2200mAh 4-Cell/4S 14.8V ProLite X 25C LiPo
Max Charge: 5C
Max Cont. Discharge: 25C
Max Charge Current: 11A
Max Burst Discharge: 50C
Max Burst Current: 110A
Weight (g) *estimate only*: 197
Max Cont. Current: 55A
Dimensions (mm) *estimate only*: 27 x 35 x 102

2800mAh 4-Cell/4S 14.8V ProLite X 25C LiPo
Max Charge: 5C
Max Cont. Discharge: 25C
Max Charge Current: 14A
Max Burst Discharge: 50C
Max Burst Current: 140A
Weight (g) *estimate only*: 234
Max Cont. Current: 70A
Dimensions (mm) *estimate only*: 32 x 34 x 102

3400mAh 4-Cell/4S 14.8V ProLite X 25C LiPo
Max Charge: 5C
Max Cont. Discharge: 25C
Max Charge Current: 17A
Max Burst Discharge: 50C
Max Burst Current: 170A
Weight (g) *estimate only*: 326
Max Cont. Current: 85A
Dimensions (mm) *estimate only*: 26 x 43 x 135

You see what you spend in weight in the motor you save in battery.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #17 on:** September 13, 2018, 03:50:06 PM »

Cory,
According to my ECL Worksheet, at 48oz all you'll need is a 4S 2700mah batteries. You just need a bigger motor. The Cobra 2826/10 at 930Kv is spot on as Jason suggests. Though, I find the cobra 28 series motors run a bit warm for my taste, so I've gone to the 35 series motors. They run cooler. Of course I live in very warm Texas too. Might want to check out a Cobra 3515/14. It's a 950Kv motor that will suit your system just fine. Your 50amp ESC is just on the edge of being too small with a 4S battery. It'll work but don't get that Accenter heavy! 48 oz is ok.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #18 on:** September 13, 2018, 04:29:06 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on September 13, 2018, 03:50:06 PM

Your 50amp ESC is just on the edge of being too small with a 4S battery. It'll work but don't get that Accenter heavy! 48 oz is ok.

I'm working on a similarly sized model. Similar weight projection. I have a castle 75 lite. Would that be the suggested ESC?

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #19 on:** September 13, 2018, 05:38:17 PM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on September 13, 2018, 04:29:06 PM

I'm working on a similarly sized model. Similar weight projection. I have a castle 75 lite. Would that be the suggested ESC?

Dane,
The size of the ESC depends on the number of cells in the battery plus the weight of the model.

cory colquhoun · « **Reply #20 on:** September 13, 2018, 07:39:01 PM »

Thanks for all the feedback, need to do some shopping

Cory

TDM · « **Reply #21 on:** September 14, 2018, 06:56:47 AM »

All that heat is wasted energy from the system. A cool system is very efficient system but can be heavy. The trick is to find a cool system that is light. My take on this is big motors requires less Amps (smaller ESC, save some weight there) less Amps means the battery needs to release the power easier so you can use less C rating (lower C rating batteries are lighter than higher C rating). Also bigger motors need far lesser energy to turn the little props and so need smaller batteries.
Another aspect of using the small motor is that you save the weight in the nose of the model and because you use the bigger battery you shift the CG of the model backwards.

I would consider a motor mount that allows me to up the motor size (in particular diameter) later which is easy to do. Most 42mm and 35mm frame motors use the 25mm bolt circle 4 screws pattern to mount the motor in the nose. And yes from what I know is better to mount the motor with the mount is goes between the prop and motor.

I was planing to use the AXI F2B in my model but I found out that the CG was too far back in the model and that was risky for maiden flight. So I fell on my back up larger motor to balance the model better. It was the right decision. My system is running very cool I can touch anything immediately after the flight and do not feel any excessive heat. I can even get away with a 6s 1800 mAh battery pack on it only they do not exist. I am using 50% capacity max now.