News:




  • November 21, 2018, 07:53:02 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Electric for Dummies  (Read 1801 times)

Offline Fred Underwood

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 432
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2018, 07:09:45 PM »
For 2200s you may need both light weight and short lines. 
Fred
352575


Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2018, 07:56:49 PM »
For 2200s you may need both light weight and short lines.
I think it will be OK.  This system is "training wheels".  I have been told that anything over 1800 will get me enough to do a pattern.  I want to wait till I know what I am doing before I buy the Ferrari.

Ken
AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Online Jason Greer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2018, 06:44:50 AM »
One thing to watch out for with the Hobby King packs is the weight.  I'm not sure which 30c 2200 you ordered, but there is a good chance it is equal to or even heavier than the 2800 25C cells from Thunder Power.  The 2800 would give you about 25% more total energy than the 2200.  Also, Thunder Power reduced the prices of their batteries a while back, so they are much more appealing now. 

I hope your first entry into electric is very successful.  It can be stressful and daunting at first.

Jason
El Dorado, AR
AMA 518858

Offline TDM

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2018, 07:43:09 AM »
I think this belongs here too.
Battery care:
Do not keep the batteries fully charged of fully discharged for prolonged period of time. If you plan to go fly charge the day you intend to fly or late night if you intend to fly next morning. When you return home put the batteries on charger and store store them.
 
Chargers have different kind of Modes for Lipo batteries.

Modes of charging under Lipo menu:
Charge: this is normal charge
Fast charge: also a normal charge mode but faster that stresses the battery a little
Balance charge: this charge mode the charger monitors each cell in your battery pack and is bringing them all individually at same charge level and voltage (this is what the second battery plug with many wires is for)
Storage charge: this is for charging after flying session is done to store batteries till next time you go fly again.
Discharge: sometimes you go fly and do not you don't use a battery and want to discharge it. Hardly ever used it take 6-7min and put another practice flight. It takes less time and you get something out of it.

The cool part of having the batteries store charged is that it takes about 35min to fully charge them for a flight from the store charge to full charge. If you have a quad charger that means you are ready to go fly in 35 min once you decide to go.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2018, 08:20:06 AM »
What is a timer?
A device that creates a signal that the ESC can read and translate to a motor run command. In RC you have receivers that interpret the signal from the transmitter and then they send the signal on the specific channel to the servo. Because we do have RC we have to emulate said signal, impute it in to the ESC to turn the motor to a RPM for a period of time and turn it off at end of flight. The timers vary in design in programming or adjusting but in essence they all do about the same thing, they create the signal to turn the motor on and off and set the rpm.

There are two major types of timers the Active timer and the Constant rpm timer. The Active timers (two commercial options to my knowledge the Igor and the Fiorotti) they will vary the Rpm during the flight more like a 4-2-4 break on an IC motor. The Constant rpm are just that they turn on the motor at set rpm and turn it off when the time have elapsed, you have some details from brand to brand in the way you set the rpm time shut off but basically they are about the same.

Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2018, 10:46:47 AM »
Transition Complete.  It will take a while to get used to not having to worry about the engine and learning to take off with a real taxi and knowing when it will quit!  I am going to like it.  First full E-pattern today.  It won't be my last!

Ken
AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Offline MikeyPratt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2018, 06:48:40 PM »
Hi Ken,
OK just food for thought.  On my Skyray 35 it has a Rimfire 35-36-1000 (not made anymore) with four cells and that seems about right with 10 X 6 APC prop for a full pattern.  So maybe a TP 2800 would be a better choice with a bigger safety margin at the end with the Twister style model and I'm sure it will handle the weight.

Let me know how the Twister flies,
Mikey

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2018, 11:29:00 PM »
Let me know how the Twister flies,
Mikey
After the heat gun got a minor warp out to the wing it flew great.  Nose heavy yet light on the controls, sort of like it is floating yet it doesn't hunt.  I was told that is an e-thing and I will get used to it.  Turns about a 10-11' corner but it will stall if you go much tighter.  My PA ship turns 12-14' so this will help me tighten them.  Great line tension overhead but we didn't have much wind.  Sensitive to maneuver position but it will do everything just like the big boys.   Stupid me, I used the kit wood for the flaps.  They will get replaced some weekend when the weather makes flying a no-no.

I ran a Cobra 2820/12 on a 4S/2200 battery at 9600 rpm with an 12 x 6 APC pusher for 5min 40sec.  Finished with 17%...bit low.  On a 4S/2800 I had 37% at the end.  The extra weight of the 2800 didn't seem to bother it at all but, I also didn't feel any loss of power at the end with the 2200.  5.5 laps on 60' lines.  I think I am going to drop down to 58' lines, maybe use an 11 x 5.5 and just fly fly fly.

Ken

AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2018, 03:41:12 PM »
Time for another question to the been there/done that crowd: 

I just ordered a Cobra 3520/14 for next year's PA ship.  Specs say it has a max current draw of 46 amps.  Will my Castel 50 esc be too small.  Basically is there an overkill factor?  Should I get a larger one?  It is the full size with the heat sink, not the lite.  Is there any benefit to using a larger one?

Thanks - Ken

AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Offline Vitalis Pilkionis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2018, 04:04:45 PM »
You did not specify the voltage (or lipo cell count), but in any way it depends on the power you're going to get from the setup. I think you should be safe with 12" 3-bladers or 13" 2 blade props, but the best practice is to check static power consumption with a power meter.


Vitalis


Time for another question to the been there/done that crowd: 

I just ordered a Cobra 3520/14 for next year's PA ship.  Specs say it has a max current draw of 46 amps.  Will my Castel 50 esc be too small.  Basically is there an overkill factor?  Should I get a larger one?  It is the full size with the heat sink, not the lite.  Is there any benefit to using a larger one?

Thanks - Ken

Offline Jim Mynes

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 213
  • Mount Dora, FL / Litchfield, ME
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2018, 04:11:49 PM »
Time for another question to the been there/done that crowd: 

I just ordered a Cobra 3520/14 for next year's PA ship.  Specs say it has a max current draw of 46 amps.  Will my Castel 50 esc be too small.  Basically is there an overkill factor?  Should I get a larger one?  It is the full size with the heat sink, not the lite.  Is there any benefit to using a larger one?

Thanks - Ken

Do you have an in line watt meter yet? If not, get one. It will tell you what you are actually drawing for amps.
Castle Edge Lite 50 has data logging. You can view a graph of your flight and see amp draw, voltage, temperature, rpm, and other cool stuff. You need the little dongle, last I knew a new ESC had a coupon for it.
A 50 amp ESC is rated to handle up to 50 amps, so 46 amps should be a walk in the park. However, just because that motor is rated at max current of 46 amps, that doesnít mean you will be drawing 46 amps.
Did I mention you should get an in line watt meter?
I have seen the light, and itís powered by a lipo.

Offline TDM

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2018, 09:56:07 AM »
Time for another question to the been there/done that crowd: 

I just ordered a Cobra 3520/14 for next year's PA ship.  Specs say it has a max current draw of 46 amps.  Will my Castel 50 esc be too small.  Basically is there an overkill factor?  Should I get a larger one?  It is the full size with the heat sink, not the lite.  Is there any benefit to using a larger one?

Thanks - Ken

Ken we can't read your mind. What is your next PA ship? What weight do you anticipate? What prop do you plan to start with? That Cobra motor weighs 216g you can go with Joker 4250 more power at a 210g and less money. 
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2018, 04:05:13 PM »
Ken we can't read your mind. What is your next PA ship? What weight do you anticipate? What prop do you plan to start with? That Cobra motor weighs 216g you can go with Joker 4250 more power at a 210g and less money.
Whew, I thought someone was trying. 

Already ordered the Cobra but the USPS seems to have misplaced it.   My own design 64", 680sq or so and about 60oz, maybe less w/battery.  Prop is up for grabs but I will probably start with a APC 12 x 6 P.  My question is prompted by the limits on the ESC. Does it need to be larger than the max draw from the motor (I still want to call them engines)?

Ken
AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10538
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2018, 04:28:09 PM »
... that doesnít mean you will be drawing 46 amps...

It doesn't mean that the motor won't be drawing 100 amps and turning itself into a smoking, glowing heap!!  You need a wattmeter, or if you want to go old school and know what the terminology means, at least get an ammeter and a current shunt.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10538
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2018, 04:31:22 PM »
Does it need to be larger than the max draw from the motor (I still want to call them engines)?

It needs to be as large as the most current the motor ever draws.  That's different from the maximum rated draw from the motor -- put the wrong prop on the motor and it'll easily draw more current than it's rated for.  The rated maximum current for both motor and ESC is the "maximum won't burn up" current -- it's part of your job to make sure that current isn't exceeded.

A motor is better able to survive over-current events than an ESC; all else being equal I'd get an ESC that's rated for 10 or 20% more current than the motor's rating.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2018, 12:07:35 AM »
It doesn't mean that the motor won't be drawing 100 amps and turning itself into a smoking, glowing heap!!  You need a wattmeter, or if you want to go old school and know what the terminology means, at least get an ammeter and a current shunt.
USPS found it!  I will get a 75.  Does the shunt have to be current or can I use an old one?

Ken
AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Offline TDM

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2018, 05:59:05 AM »
OK ken so you have a 60 size model. Good for you bigger models are easier to fly.
Here are my thoughts:
First is the prop you choose. I would use similar diameter and pitch but much lighter the XOAR 12x6. I am using one now and is great. The pitch is perfect the blade is great efficient light and not very expensive.
I would immediately think of going to the 4250 motors which are lighter more power and easy on the system. I now run the 12x6 props on my plane. I am going to try try the 12x7 and 12x8 as well. Also on my to do list there is a 5S setup and a 4S setup. Whatever I find I will share.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2018, 06:56:20 AM »
OK ken so you have a 60 size model. Good for you bigger models are easier to fly.
Here are my thoughts:
First is the prop you choose. I would use similar diameter and pitch but much lighter the XOAR 12x6. I am using one now and is great. The pitch is perfect the blade is great efficient light and not very expensive.
I would immediately think of going to the 4250 motors which are lighter more power and easy on the system. I now run the 12x6 props on my plane. I am going to try try the 12x7 and 12x8 as well. Also on my to do list there is a 5S setup and a 4S setup. Whatever I find I will share.
What is interesting is that this is the same model (upgraded for modern controls, a slightly thicker airfoil, etc.) that I designed in 1963 and flew at the 1964 Nats.  It weighed 38oz (w/o fuel) and had a Fox 35.  How things have changed.  One thing I have learned is that this size ship flies better with a bigger motor and more weight.
 
I will try that prop.

Ken
AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2018, 10:22:56 AM »
Just about done with the "Dummies" program and about to move into "Novice".  Same rat race as IC, just different rat.   We only have one other electric flier in out group so instead of bugging him to death every day I will continue to post my brain twisters here.

My first observation in flying is that the plane seems to fly through maneuvers without the hesitation that an IC has when it transitions through it's power curve.  I am assuming that is a function of the ESC and what I am getting is a constant RPM.  What this implies is that it is RPM & Prop govern most all of it and the ESC will suck up as much battery as it needs to keep the prop turning at the set RPM.  So:  I am flying 5.0 laps and I want 5.5 but the vertical acceleration in the RWO is making me say "Where have you been all of my life" and dropping the RPM to get the lap time up will also cut into that.  I know there are high-tech solutions but I do not have unlimited financial resources so, is this a balancing act I just need to get used to or is there something else (other than line length) I can mess with?

I have also been looking for the settings on the ESC to set wind speed and direction, cloud cover and sun position.  If Real FLight can do it why can't we?

Ken
AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Offline Howard Rush

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6325
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2018, 12:44:08 PM »
I just ordered a Cobra 3520/14 for next year's PA ship.  Specs say it has a max current draw of 46 amps.  Will my Castel 50 esc be too small.  Basically is there an overkill factor?  Should I get a larger one?  It is the full size with the heat sink, not the lite.  Is there any benefit to using a larger one?

For a given cell count, current will be determined mostly by prop and RPM, and will be at its maximum on the ground, which makes measurement easy.  To see if your rig will work with the Castle 50, start with a low RPM, measure current, and bump up RPM gradually to see if current gets close to the Castle's limit before you get to flight RPM.  Measure current either with the Castle's log or on either battery lead using an ammeter in series with a battery lead. 
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Howard Rush

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6325
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2018, 12:45:40 PM »
I know there are high-tech solutions but I do not have unlimited financial resources so, is this a balancing act I just need to get used to or is there something else (other than line length) I can mess with?

Propeller.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10538
Re: Electric for Dummies
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2018, 01:02:28 PM »
So:  I am flying 5.0 laps and I want 5.5 but the vertical acceleration in the RWO is making me say "Where have you been all of my life" and dropping the RPM to get the lap time up will also cut into that.  I know there are high-tech solutions but I do not have unlimited financial resources so, is this a balancing act I just need to get used to or is there something else (other than line length) I can mess with?

To expand on Howard's cryptic answer: a flatter-pitch prop will give you more oomph going up and more drag going down for a given level-lap time.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


Tags: timers