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Author Topic: Electric Crossfire  (Read 8560 times)

Offline Airacobra

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2011, 08:59:32 AM »
Bob, the plane looks just awesome. I hope to see it fly in Muncie. Sign me up for the plans as well, great looking bird and love all the new technology. Keith
Keith Bryant

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2011, 09:07:44 AM »
Wow! Thanks, Keith! See you in Muncie. y1

Bob

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2011, 02:17:24 PM »
Here's a photo of the "electronics bay" completed, but without the battery (so you can see the installation of the ESC and the Timer on the plate).

I'll throw in a photo or two of the completed ship (only need to paint the spinner, and I'll do that this week between practice sessions).

The finished weight -with the battery on board - is 62.2 ounces. That equates to a 56.2 ounce ship without six ounces of fuel, which was the exact weight of the 1980 Genesis on which this ship is really based (the wing is just a bit bigger on this ship). Difference is that I used an 11-inch diameter 3-blade on the Genesis (which was powered by an OS 40 FSR) and this one mounts a 13 x 4.5 reverse pitch prop. I should have significantly more performance with this one, and the 1980 Genesis was very, very good!

Later - Bob

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2011, 06:59:51 PM »
That is still one awesome looking plane.  It looks like it means business.  Have fun at the NATS and tell everybody the DOC says hi. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Ward Van Duzer

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2011, 08:25:21 AM »
Bob,

How about some details on your super kool (per Uncle Dean-o) arming switch?

W.
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2011, 08:33:25 AM »
The Crossfire was scheduled to fly yesterday. I am looking forward to a flight report. It is less than a week now until Bob's drive to Muncie.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 03:08:32 PM by Tom Niebuhr »
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2011, 12:31:14 PM »
Okay, we've got great news and some disappointing news here.

First off, the ship flies just great. It turns like nothing I've ever owned and also turns dead equal in either direction. It has a ferocious "lock" and is just about final trimmed as I write this.

The disappointing news is that on the second takeoff the wheel must have shifted in the outside pant and it caused the pant to explode! A piece of the pant went through the bottom of the wing and even slightly cracked the upper wing panel. I was just shattered by this, as this ship has the best finish I've achieved in many moons. However, upon further inspection I found a way to make a repair that will be hard to find. Fortunately the hole was not in or near the number panel on the upper right wing panel and it was a simple matter to repair both the top and the bottom of the wing. I'm almost ready to spray the white on the repaired areas, but I'm holding off to also spray the new wheel spats at the same time. I'll make new pants for it after the Nats...

Later - Bob   

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2011, 03:24:10 PM »
Bob,
Ouch! Sorry that you have to burn more midnight oil. The pants are part of the "look", but I am sure that it will still look great. Of course the best news is that it flies great. I still predict that you will be in the top 3 or better. Good luck and have a good time at the Nats.
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2011, 07:16:31 PM »
Hi Tom:

Yup, that midnite oil thing is getting to be the norm here... Fortunately it is not that bad and I think I can make a near perfect repair. But, hey, they don't fly really well until they get a few "dings" in them anyway!

I made a set of spats that I'm very happy with, and they are almost ready for the white coat. At that time I'll fog in the required white on the wing and then sand it lightly and fog on some clear, sand and buff.

Really had a good session flying it today. One of the many beauties of electric flight is that you can have a multi-coat paint repair going on and still fly the ship everyday!

I'll be signing off on this thread for a while as the Nats is quickly approaching and I need all the time I can get.

I want to thank everyone who has chimed in on this thread. The Crossfire is a resounding success as a design and I will expedite the plans when I return from the Nats.

Later - Bob
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 11:03:22 AM by Bob Hunt »

Online Matt Colan

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2011, 08:32:54 PM »
That's a bummer Bob, but it's good to know you got a handle on things.

And I look foward to seeing that plane in a few days, sounds like it will be awesome!!
Matt Colan

Offline Mike Ferguson

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2011, 05:35:55 PM »
Looks great, Bob, and glad to hear that it's flying great too.

Good luck with it at the Nats - and hope to catch up with you in person not too long after that!

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2011, 11:42:43 AM »
Bob:  Crossfire has a very attractive rudder.  Sort of retro-- like the Top Flite Taurus?

Floyd
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2011, 07:23:19 AM »
Well, it has been an amazing two weeks for the Crossfire and me. As mentioned above, the outside wheel pant "exploded" on takeoff on the second flight and put two large holes in the bottom of the outside wing and one all the way through the top of the outside wing. I fixed those holes well enough that no one could tell that it had been broken. The Chroma Base basecoat/clear coat paints are just amazing!

So, it was off to the Nats with but four complete patterns on the ship. No worries; it flew extremely well right off the board and only need a tiny bit of tip weight and a bit of nose weight to come in perfectly for me. It is perhaps the easiest ship to fly well that I have ever owned.

Everything went well through the practice days. On the first day of qualifying I drew an early flight and the air was just dead and what wind was present was blowing right into an intense morning sun. I delivered an okay flight that got me a decent score, but I knew that I could do a bunch better on the second flight.

For the second round the judges moved the sun a bit higher in the sky, so that wouldn't be an issue and the winds had picked up enough to blow the turbulence away. I was primed to lay one in and had the Crossfire in line in the pits with the battery in and ready. My very good friend, Bob McDonald was due to fly two before me and he asked me to walk his handle out onto the circle and then launch for him. As I was entering the circle I heard a commotion in the pits and looked over in time to see the Crossfire flying through the air backwards! A Dust Devil had hit the pits and several planes were tossed. I knew that my Nats was probably over at that point so I just went ahead with the launching duties for Bob.

When I returned to the pits I realized that the Crossfire got the worst of it… It was broken clean in half just behind the wing and the outside wingtip was slightly crushed at the front. The other planes involved sustained only minor damage. Naturally I was disappointed and wanted to just throw in the towel at that point. I was pretty sure that this plane wasn't meant to compete at this Nats.  Brett Buck had other ideas…

Brett came over to add his condolences to those of everyone else, but upon close inspection he suggested that the break was so clean that we would probably be able to glue the ship back together accurately. We met up at my motel room. Brett, Bob McDonald, Jim Aron, Will and Kevin DeMauro, Buddy Wieder and Rich Giacobone all pitched in to help reassemble the ship.

Brett came up with a great idea. We fit the fuse back together along the clean break. I took some ¾-inch wide masking tape and used four strips to hold the two pieces together. I aligned the tape carefully along the paint trim lines, and ultimately I think that this contributed greatly to the final, successful, outcome of the repair. Bret used a T-Pin to make several holes along the break line; he spaced these about 5/16-inch apart. He then applied small drops of thin CA into the holes, essentially “riveting” the break lightly so that we could do a final alignment before gluing everything permanently together. Everything seemed to be aligned properly and we did a lot of measuring to insure that fact. Then we fed thin CA into the break to make the assembly more solid. After that I sanded the clear off of the paint 2 inches on either side of the break. Bob McDonald and Buddy Wieder cut two pieces of ½-ounce glass cloth to size so that we could bridge the break on both the top and bottom of the fuselage. Bob McDonald stretched the glass out flat and smooth and I applied medium CA onto the glass and smoothed it out with my finger. After that I block sanded the glass carefully to make it even smoother. Will DeMauro made a trip to the local Hobby Lobby while all of this was going on and bought a pack of very nice brushes. I used one of them to flow a bit of the metallic brown onto the fuselage and make the fix less noticeable. Okay, it was back together, but would it fly well enough to continue competing?  
 
Will, Kevin and I drove to the field late in the afternoon and found that it was very windy. I test flew it anyway. The Crossfire broke ground and felt just like it always did. Even the handle setting was right on! It grooved extremely well and so I figured, “What the heck, let’s go for it.” I did a wingover and the ship felt just great. I completed the pattern and landed and that’s when the adrenalin ran out and I felt just totally spent. We went to dinner…

The rest is a matter of record. I finished up one quarter point out of a Top Five berth. I doubt that I could have flown any better had the ship not been broken. I am very happy with this result.

In retrospect this one is going into the win column for me. The last competition flight at the Nats was the 31st flight on a brand new plane that had sustained two major incidents in less than 10 days. I absolutely love the way this ship flies. I can fly it at 5.6 to 5.8 second lap times and with great tension everywhere. It turns extremely well and locks on target as well or better than anything I’ve ever owned. The power system consisting of an E-Flite Power 25 motor, Castle Phoenix 45 speed control, Hyperion 4s 4,000 mAh battery and Hubin FM 9 timer worked flawlessly and produced great power. I haven’t competed at a Nats since 2004. To make it almost into the show makes me a happy guy. Needless to say, I’m going to fix this ship properly now and then I’m going to build two more of them!

My most sincere thanks go out to all who have contributed to this thread and especially to all who helped me get this bird back together and flying well. What an adventure!

Later – Bob Hunt  
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 03:08:21 PM by Bob Hunt »

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2011, 08:16:21 AM »
Well flown Bob, well flown
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline WhittleN

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2011, 08:59:09 AM »
Bob
Congratulations on your excellent placing at the NATS after years of layoff.  I really admire your tenacity too.  I noticed you said you will be building two more of the same Stunters.  I now also have 3 Sultans and I am amazed how similar they fly.  I attribute this repeatability to the electric power system.
Regards
Norm Whittle

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2011, 11:04:45 AM »
Mr Hunt Sir..........you did a great job! I don't think that anyone could have doubted your flying ability, but when you consider the short time that had with Crossfire, plus the stream of problems that hit you, I would say that you did an awesome job. Losing out of the top 5 by .25 of a point is disappointing for sure, but pat yourself on the back. Well done Bob!

If you say that it flies at 5.6 to 5.8 sec lap times, then that's simply amazing. I hope that publishing the plans does not take too long.

Keith R
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2011, 11:36:41 AM »
Great Nats story Bob.  
You done good..

Do you know what made that wheel pant "explode" ?    That sounds strange.

I too will be anxious to get a set of plans.
Allan Perret
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2011, 04:00:14 PM »
Bob,
Congrats on a major effort and overcoming major obstacles. Losing out of the top 5 by 00.25 certainly hurt. But also being a friend of Richard's has got me thinking that with Richard's lead out breaking, that 5th place this year was snake bit.


I am repeating that I also would like the Crossfire Extreme plans. Aside from Classics, it will the first airplane not of my own design, that I will build in over 35 years.
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Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2011, 06:07:16 PM »
plans........NAH - get In touch with Mike Griffon at Stunt Supply and get him to kit it!!!!  we need a REAL electric kit out there on the market

In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2011, 07:07:39 PM »
Wynn,

Are you forgetting that I run Blue Sky Models and make laser kits? I have several new items, including electrics, that will be introduced very soon.
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Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2011, 11:27:20 PM »
not at all Tom - I have just been ribbing Mike about doing one..

I could also include Eric Rule - or even Brodak for kitting this thing........I think a cottage guy is more likely to do it tho..

Do you have any electric specific Precision Aerobatics kits coming out?  not the HOBO!

sorry Bob for hijacking.....
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2011, 06:57:54 AM »
Wynn,
Working on it. No specifics to talk about now, but the Skunk Works is very active.

A little off the topic but I am also doing custom graphics.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 02:57:41 PM by Tom Niebuhr »
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Offline John Miller

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2011, 10:05:56 AM »
Oh Bob, Maintain your attention to the force young Jedi. Don't let yourself be seduced to the beauties of single prop, dark force. 2 is always brighter than 1....  S?P

Great job though, so close.  Congrats.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2011, 10:14:38 AM »
Bob, glad you over came adversity to place as well as you did.  It would have been icing on the cake if you could have pulled one off and put David F. in second place.   It is great you are happy with this plane.   H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline James Mills

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2011, 03:49:14 PM »
Bob,

I was at the local hobby shop and he had an E-Flite 25 Brushless Outrunner (870 KV).  Is this the motor you use in the Crossfire?

Thanks,

James
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #75 on: July 12, 2011, 04:33:00 PM »
Hi James:

Yes, the 870 kv motor is the one I use.

Later - Bob

Offline James Mills

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #76 on: July 12, 2011, 05:32:18 PM »
Hi James:

Yes, the 870 kv motor is the one I use.

Later - Bob
Thanks, I think he had it priced at $69.99.  Is that about average price?

James
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Electric Crossfire
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2011, 01:08:15 AM »
Hi Bob, could you please post the setup that you were flying at the Nats. Not the motor, esc and stuff, but the prop and rpm, flight time and how much battery was used please. It would be interesting to see this especially with those lap times that you mentioned. Thanks very much.

Keith R
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