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Author Topic: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee  (Read 877 times)

Offline MikeyPratt

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Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« on: December 20, 2021, 12:58:40 PM »
Hi Guyís,
Iím looking at two kits that I want to convert to electric, Skyray 35, and good old Sig Banshee.  Each of these kits will be changed for the popular electric motors, current ESC, timers and battery sizes.  My Question for you is which of the kits to start first?  The plan is to provide a built log, including covering and painting each model, then a flight log to set up the model for contests.  This wonít be super fast because I have other projects that Iím working on also.  You can order a kit from Sig and follow along or use an existing kits you may have already.  again, when finished it will have all the items listed that were used along with specs.

Let me know what you think?

Mikey Pratt


Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2021, 04:06:31 PM »
Mike,
Since you are doing a new kit will you engineer the component installation around electric or use the IC structure and just convert? It would be great if you did a version that was geared around design changes to make for electric and save the extra weight and structure that would be used if only converting from IC. Would love to see the Banshee.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2021, 05:01:34 PM »
Pat Johnston has outlined a few conversion packages for these sizes of planes.  (Brodak, RSM do as well.)
I have attached Pat's info.  It might save someone out there a bit of effort.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2021, 05:20:06 PM »
Since you are doing a new kit will you engineer the component installation around electric or use the IC structure and just convert? It would be great if you did a version that was geared around design changes to make for electric and save the extra weight and structure that would be used if only converting from IC.

Dennis,
If there are changes to the kit them Iíll recommend that as well, but we will see what happens.  I know I want to change a bunch of things to update it, so I canít say for sure right now.  They make the kits, but they listen to me anyway lol

Mikey,
PS: So one vote for the Banshee (3) (0) Skyray 35
PPS:  Or plan ďBĒ kit bash it into a F3F wildcat
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 10:44:42 AM by MikeyPratt »

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2021, 10:15:02 PM »
Either one works for me.  "Just buy one from Sig and follow along" won't work for the Skyray -- I ordered one six weeks ago for a Christmas gift; Sig says they're out of stock and don't know when they'll get more.  So someone is getting an old Banshee kit that I have lying around along with advice to leave the flaps off.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2021, 11:49:08 PM »
Either one works for me.  "Just buy one from Sig and follow along" won't work for the Skyray -- I ordered one six weeks ago for a Christmas gift; Sig says they're out of stock and don't know when they'll get more.  So someone is getting an old Banshee kit that I have lying around along with advice to leave the flaps off.

Tim,
Glad you will be building along with me, that will be a blast.  So far my plan is to use a Bad Ass motor 2826 with a 5 cell 2000 mAh pack CC lite 50 amp, or Jetti Spin Pro 66, with a Fiortti active timer, CA three blade prop.  I think this will make a great combination thatís easy to duplicates that provides excellent performance, with out floating a loan for higher priced equipment.  Iím not cheap, but Iím retired now lol.

Later,
Mikey

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2021, 11:25:14 AM »
It seems like Iím going to start on the Banshee and go from there.  So what do you want it to look like when finished, in my opinion the Banshee can be changed to look like a number of aircraft out there with its mid wing design so Iím looking at the following:

Wildcat FM2 Navy Fighter (my personal choice).
Shoestring Racer.

With Slightly more work by lowering the wing in the fuselage and adding dihedral to get the vertical CG in the proper location, very easy mod.
 
Warhawk P-40
Hellcat Navy Fighter
Mustang P-51
Zero

Iím sure there are more choices out there but I wanted to get your opinion before I start hacking on balsa and drawing something up.  So let me know what you would like to see (or should I go off in my own direction and come up with something new).

Mikey

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2021, 12:40:49 PM »
I'd say go with a plain ol' Banshee.  If it won't offend your sensibilities, Fancherize it by moving the wing forward and adding a couple inches of span to the tail.

If you don't Fancherize it -- I'm not sure how the CG ends up on an electrocuted Banshee.  If you leave that looooong nose on there you'll have plenty of room for batteries and whatnot, but maybe not the right CG.  It would be interesting to see how that works out.

Please look at this thread for the motor mount -- the Banshee is a trainer, and that thread has some ideas for mounts for trainers.  I like Mike Alimov's mounts, because (A) they look sensible, and (B) he says that he's tested them in real "motor into brown stuff" events and had the motor come away un-bent.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2021, 07:34:58 PM »

I'm not sure how the CG ends up on an electrocuted Banshee.  If you leave that looooong nose on there you'll have plenty of room for batteries and whatnot, but maybe not the right CG.  It would be interesting to see how that works out.

Tim,
My plan is to use a G-10 front mount the same as I done on my electric models, if they want to change it, then they can but Iím staying with the front mount.  Tim, do you think I havenít designed models before?  Believe me it will balance when done and look good doing it.

Mike

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2021, 09:23:05 PM »
... Tim, do you think I havenít designed models before?  Believe me it will balance when done and look good doing it ...

I'm aware you design models.  I design electronic systems for a living, and I still consider suggestions from my coworkers.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2021, 07:25:35 AM »
Mike,
I think the 5S - 2200mah for the Banshee may be more than you need. I have been flying my Still Stuka (48" span) with a Thunder Power 4S - 2200mah pack that draws around 1825mahs. I fly it on 60' C to C 0.015" lines at around a lap time of 4.7 sec. The 4S pack is 6.9 oz. vs. the 5S at 8.85 oz. save 1.95 oz.

I think the BadAss 2814-980Kv would be enough on a APCE -P 10x6 at 4.13 oz. compared to the BadAss 2826-1080Kv at 6.38 oz. save 2.25 oz. Total weight savings 4.2 oz. worth trying for. Just my thoughts.

Best,    DennisT

Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2021, 09:06:49 AM »
Hi Mikey!

First off, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.  Hope all is well with you & your family.

I would vote for a tricked-out Banshee.  I have one and am planning on moving the wing forward about 1.5", a new horizontal tail a little wider and couple inches longer then enlarging the fin a smidgen so it looks right with the enlarged stab.  Also plan on adding half-ribs and seeing whatever other trouble I can get into can't remember if it had wing asymmetry but mine will be equal span so it can better handle lightweight (probably 40# x 60') Spectra lines.  Mine will be set-up for an APC 10x5.8EP with a Brodak 2814 motor, & 4Sx2200 pack.  YES, I am overthinking it.  Safe bet is that it will fly well.

If you keep the stock long nose, then a BA 2320/1310 kV with a 3Sx3000 pack is REALLY light and will turn the 10x5.8EP.  With this combo you might need nose weight!
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

"Dear Lord, please keep your arm around my shoulder - and your hand over my mouth..."

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2021, 09:56:58 AM »
Hi Mikey!

First off, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.  Hope all is well with you & your family.

I would vote for a tricked-out Banshee.  I have one and am planning on moving the wing forward about 1.5", a new horizontal tail a little wider and couple inches longer then enlarging the fin a smidgen so it looks right with the enlarged stab.  Also plan on adding half-ribs and seeing whatever other trouble I can get into can't remember if it had wing asymmetry but mine will be equal span so it can better handle lightweight (probably 40# x 60') Spectra lines.  Mine will be set-up for an APC 10x5.8EP with a Brodak 2814 motor, & 4Sx2200 pack.  YES, I am overthinking it.  Safe bet is that it will fly well.

Dennis Ol Friend
Thanks and all the best to you and yours along with a happy new year, man itís been way too long Buddy.   Yeah the Banshee is pretty darn good model to start with, but upgrading it some certainly wonít hurt it.  Your pretty much where Iím at with the changes, my thinking is (I have one) a BA 2826 so I know itís a little much for the Banshee, but thatís better than not enough.  I also want to use this to try different motors, ESC, timers and props.  I want this to be killer performance, hands down.  Iím also a big believer in three blade props because I like the way they pull an lock on the corners.  Iím still not a big believer on the pusher props as normal, just to many goofy things happen during the maneuvers that I donít like.  Iím not sure where this will wind up right now, but rest assured it will be better.

I do have some really good ideas on this that have proven to work well on other models. 

Later,
Mikey

PS  The smaller motor that was recommended by Dennis T is what I was thinking for the Skyray 35, but thatís next lol.



Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2021, 07:39:53 AM »
Mike,
The BA motor OK for overkill but for the average flier saving a couple oz. is hard to come by from any kit. I like the three blade props also and have used Master Airscew pusher three blades. The MA props are all roughly 1" lower pitch then stated. On my Stuka I've used their 9x7 three blade pusher and it is fine. Toughest thing with three blades is getting light weight spinners. Dubro makes some but in limited colors and sizes.

As far as pusher vs. tractor, I fine that most people that had trouble put them on a ship that was set-up for conventional counterclockwise (tractor) rotation. With the conventional counterclockwise tractor there is an upward pitching moment from the circular flight path. Some trim this out when building by building in a 1/32" or so of negative pitch in the stab, others add down thrust or just adjust the elevator/flap to compensate. When they put the clockwise pusher on all this is reversed, you get and upward pitching moment and the trim goes off. If the ship is set up from the start for pusher, either with everything zero or slight up in the stab things trim as normal. For me the thing I like with the pusher is the extra line tension on outside maneuvers. I think this is just mental as I feel I can handle a little less line tension going up on insides as opposed to down on outsides. The side benefit from the pusher setup is you can install the bellcrank with the arm facing out not needing the pushrod over the leadouts. It has the back line as up to give that little extra yaw on the insides when the torque moment wants to move the nose in.  Just my thoughts.

Best,     DennisT

Offline John Tate

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2021, 11:52:13 AM »
I am modifying a Sig Banshee to a Miss BJ from the Flying Models plan. The battery is a Thunder Power Prolite X TP 2200MAH battery. The motor is a Arrowwind 2815/09.  I have use this combination on similar size models with no problems. The Miss BJ nose is about 1.5Ē shorter than the Banshee. The elevator hinge line will be lengthened about the same amount. This makes the movements similar to the Fancherized Twister.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2021, 01:24:34 PM »
I am modifying a Sig Banshee to a Miss BJ from the Flying Models plan. The battery is a Thunder Power Prolite X TP 2200MAH battery. The motor is a Arrowwind 2815/09.  I have use this combination on similar size models with no problems. The Miss BJ nose is about 1.5Ē shorter than the Banshee. The elevator hinge line will be lengthened about the same amount. This makes the movements similar to the Fancherized Twister.

Hi John,
Iíve always liked the looks of the Miss BJ and Iím sure the that combo works well for you, thank for showing that, itís greatly appreciated.  My plans for the Banshee are well on its way, the wing has been moved forward 1-5/8 forward (to get the math to work out), in addition the I extended the tail another 2Ē to get things to work out on paper and get the (tail moment volume) in the proper range.  Right now the stab & elevators are in the 25% range of the wing area, I know this will have all the right numbers and should be a fantastic flyer if built straight and finished at a reasonable weight.

Later,
Mikey

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Electric Conversion Skyray 35 or Banshee
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2021, 11:54:15 AM »
The tricked out Banshee is coming along great, I canít say what it resembles except some kind of a Formula 1 Goodyear racer but not a scale model.  If you had to choose a design, I would call it Mid-wing Cosmic Wind or Toni.

For Example:
Wing,

Moved the out board tip rib inboard 1/2Ē and added a tip weight box.
Added half ribs to the wing structure to eliminate wing covering sag between the wing ribs.  Also added 1/16Ē X 1Ē  balsa from the leading edge, again, to promote a smoother airflow over the wing at the leading edge.

The bell crank is now a suspended unit,  you can use a 3Ē or 4Ē bell crank (I recommended 4Ē) for slower controls with the added advantage of force to move the control surfaces.

1/32Ē vertical grain balsa at the trailing edges to build a warp resistant structure using the iron on film covering.

Fuselage:

This is where I done the most work, the outline of the fuselage has made it really easy to make it look anyway you want it to, I choose to make it look like Goodyear Racer but not any particular one, but a combination of the different parts of full scale designs I like, Shoestring, Cosmic Wind, Toni, Owl and so on, besides they look really Super ďCOOLĒ.

So I could save my kit for a future classic build, I built up the fuselage out of 3/16Ē balsa laminated together with epoxy glue and cut out the outline of the fuselage, wing opening, stab cut out, lighting holes.  My plan is to sheet the fuselage sides with 1/16 balsa set a 45 degree angle to the trust-line, the the reversing the the 45 degree of the sheeting on the opposite side of the fuse, light but super strong.  The fuselage doublers are now 1/16Ē plywood.

Stabilizer & Elevators,

Iíve increased the size of the Stabilizer and left the size of the elevators almost the same but the overall itís 25% of the wing area (Iím considering building them up to save some weight) but we will see.

Later,
Mikey


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